687 réponses à ce sujet

[Former_Fiend]

And tactical lying by blaming the wardens and ofcourse he has the tactical nous of selling elves, lets not forget his tactical attempt of assassination of eamon. Oh he was so tactical and smart that he allied with the biggest s.o.b. in the game.
to u this is tactics, to me this is atrocity.
maybe u wud feel diffrently about loghain if he sent an assassin against u or sold u into slavery. lol. that shud happen to people such as yourself

 

Blaming the wardens was a political move, and even Loghain's supporters agree that he sucks at politics.

 

Selling the elves to raise funds, while morally reprehensible, wasn't a bad move in and of itself, and would have gone off without a hitch if not for that meddling warden.

 

The poisoning of Eamon wasn't intended to be fatal, per Gaider. The idea was to take him out of the picture until Loghain could secure power. And really, nothing that went down at Redcliffe hurt Loghain at all, so this can hardly be called a misstep on his part, just another immoral decision.

 

And allying with Howe...again, that isn't a bad tactical decision. Howe's one of the most powerful nobles in Ferelden who happens to share Loghain's views on the Orlesians. Main problem with this is that Howe understands politics a lot better than Loghain and is able to manipulate him because of this. And of course there's the secondary problem that Howe's a psychopath. Still, tactically, what's the issue?

 

And Loghain did send an assassin against us. Zevran Arainai, of the Antivan Crows. Maybe you've heard of him?

[EmperorSahlertz]

Doesn't matter if it can be won, you fight for your country and you die for your country.

That's a surefire way of LOSING your country...

[Spicen]

Blaming the wardens was a political move, and even Loghain's supporters agree that he sucks at politics.

Selling the elves to raise funds, while morally reprehensible, wasn't a bad move in and of itself, and would have gone off without a hitch if not for that meddling warden.

The poisoning of Eamon wasn't intended to be fatal, per Gaider. The idea was to take him out of the picture until Loghain could secure power. And really, nothing that went down at Redcliffe hurt Loghain at all, so this can hardly be called a misstep on his part, just another immoral decision.

And allying with Howe...again, that isn't a bad tactical decision. Howe's one of the most powerful nobles in Ferelden who happens to share Loghain's views on the Orlesians. Main problem with this is that Howe understands politics a lot better than Loghain and is able to manipulate him because of this. And of course there's the secondary problem that Howe's a psychopath. Still, tactically, what's the issue?

And Loghain did send an assassin against us. Zevran Arainai, of the Antivan Crows. Maybe you've heard of him?

Politics or not that kinda signed his death warrant.
You ever heard of street rats, these are people who would sell their mothers to further their goals, howe was one of these guys. You say its not a bad move. Perhaps u forgot that howe said 'I deserved more.' meaning he had a bigger plan. Had loghain retained regency there is no guarantee thtt the sewer rat howe wud not hav killed him in a coup. After all, we know what hhe did to the couslands. In my religion, i was taught to never align with backbiters or backstabbers bcoz 90% of the time they wud backstab too.

I was actually saying the guy be assassinated in real life so he wud get a feeling of what it is like to be hunted. I also pointed out zevran in anothwr post, another of that lunatic loghain's treachery. I mean seriously, he left the wardens to die, then blamed it all on the wardens. But he was not at peace with that. He wanted to hunt the two remaining wardens like dogs. I mean really he is lucky that my warden didnt have the option to pi-ss on his face.
I dont know who u are. But i cannot fathom how a sane man can defend loghain. Selling elves wasnt bad u say, perhaps if u ever had been a slave u wud have known how bad it was

[Spicen]

That's a surefire way of LOSING your country...

Come now, we all know that is just used for propaganda in times of war but not while in war.I can see where he is coming from though.

[Former_Fiend]

Politics or not that kinda signed his death warrant.
You ever heard of street rats, these are people who would sell their mothers to further their goals, howe was one of these guys. You say its not a bad move. Perhaps u forgot that howe said 'I deserved more.' meaning he had a bigger plan. Had loghain retained regency there is no guarantee thtt the sewer rat howe wud not hav killed him in a coup. After all, we know what hhe did to the couslands. In my religion, i was taught to never align with backbiters or backstabbers bcoz 90% of the time they wud backstab too.

I was actually saying the guy be assassinated in real life so he wud get a feeling of what it is like to be hunted. I also pointed out zevran in anothwr post, another of that lunatic loghain's treachery. I mean seriously, he left the wardens to die, then blamed it all on the wardens. But he was not at peace with that. He wanted to hunt the two remaining wardens like dogs. I mean really he is lucky that my warden didnt have the option to pi-ss on his face.
I dont know who u are. But i cannot fathom how a sane man can defend loghain. Selling elves wasnt bad u say, perhaps if u ever had been a slave u wud have known how bad it was

 

The primary difference between Loghain and Bryce is that Loghain knows exactly what Howe is capable of. I think he relies on the man too much, but I don't imagine he doesn't consider the possibility of a betrayal inevitable. 

 

Far as suggestions of real life assassinations go, I think that's the point where you are taking this way too seriously. And with that, I'm out.

[Spicen]

Far as suggestions of real life assassinations go, I think that's the point where you are taking this way too seriously. And with that, I'm out.

I did not say i wud send them. i said the guy to whom i originally posted wud know how bad it is to be hunted. And yes i get a bit serious with ppl supporting slavery. Perhaps u know that there are many rings in usa which abduct young girls and sell them as slaves. I read a lot of article and also about slavery in yemen. It isnt a good thing to do. But i guess i forgot its a game and ppl can do whatever they want with it.

[Former_Fiend]

I did not say i wud send them. i said the guy to whom i originally posted wud know how bad it is to be hunted. And yes i get a bit serious with ppl supporting slavery. Perhaps u know that there are many rings in usa which abduct young girls and sell them as slaves. I read a lot of article and also about slavery in yemen. It isnt a good thing to do. But i guess i forgot its a game and ppl can do whatever they want with it.

 

Yes, you did.

 

There's also the point that liking Loghain as a character does not equate to supporting slavery in real life. Sparing Loghain doesn't equate to your warden supporting slavery.

 

Hell, you don't actually get the option of sparing Loghain. I executed him the same as anyone else; I just used a joining cup instead of a sword to do it. Takes a little longer to kick in, but at least he'll be of some use before then.

[steelfire_dragon]

What are you smoking over there behind ur pc?

Ice cold Mountain dew. did you want some?

[steelfire_dragon]

wow ur love for loghain holds no bounds, perhaps u forgot the things that hapless lunatic did. Selling elves, attempted asassination of eamon and ur damn WARDEN, leaving the battlefield and blaming the defeat on the wardens, labelling them traitors and u still side with him over Alistair a loyal friend who didnt even try to scratch u. i mean holy crap.
Seriously some ppl in bsn wudnt mind even if loghain killed the warden. They wud still support him. We live in a world that supports treachery......or just some guys in the bsn do that

 Hardly. I understand his reasoning about Cailin . The blaming of the wardens was just an attempt to punish them for poisoning Cailin's mind.

 

that also said, I never have sided with Loghain. I just let Alistair kill him as I didn't want to be the one to do it and have to answer for it later, and that revenge serves nothing( most of my characters tend to be elves).

 

 

and if you want more, in the anora thread I put I hated her and wanted to kill her.

[Spicen]

Hardly. I understand his reasoning about Cailin . The blaming of the wardens was just an attempt to punish them for poisoning Cailin's mind.

that also said, I never have sided with Loghain. I just let Alistair kill him as I didn't want to be the one to do it and have to answer for it later, and that revenge serves nothing( most of my characters tend to be elves).


and if you want more, in the anora thread I put I hated her and wanted to kill her.

wardens poisoned cailan's mind? lol, did u talk to duncan. he said that cailan was over confident and that it was best to wait for orlesian reinforcements. the wardens had nothing to do with cailan's bravado, it was down to his dream of becominc a hero like his father.

[Spicen]

Hardly. I understand his reasoning about Cailin . The blaming of the wardens was just an attempt to punish them for poisoning Cailin's mind.

that also said, I never have sided with Loghain. I just let Alistair kill him as I didn't want to be the one to do it and have to answer for it later, and that revenge serves nothing( most of my characters tend to be elves).


and if you want more, in the anora thread I put I hated her and wanted to kill her.

wardens poisoned cailan's mind? lol, did u talk to duncan. he said that cailan was over confident and that it was best to wait for orlesian reinforcements. the wardens had nothing to do with cailan's bravado, it was down to his dream of becominc a hero like his father.

[steelfire_dragon]

stories of Grey Wardens of old is what likely Cailin listened to growing up with him around.

 

he had the grey wardens at that unfortunate battle( if one would call it that)

 

refused to listen  as he was confident with the wardens at his back and fighting at his side at a field that he only thought was his and was not his for 5 days beforehand.

 

thus while indirectly, Cailin's mind was poisoned by the grey wardens. Dreams of Grandeur and have his name in the history books as the king of feralden who stopped a blight by fighting alongside the Grey Wardens. ( One would wonder though if he knew that everyone thought he was too unfit for a ruler and wanted to prove someone wrong)

[The Night Haunter]

Hmm... seems like I was just in this same argument not 5 weeks ago.... circles go on and on

 

Loghain is right, Cailan's a big baby

[Spicen]

stories of Grey Wardens of old is what likely Cailin listened to growing up with him around.

he had the grey wardens at that unfortunate battle( if one would call it that)

refused to listen as he was confident with the wardens at his back and fighting at his side at a field that he only thought was his and was not his for 5 days beforehand.

thus while indirectly, Cailin's mind was poisoned by the grey wardens. Dreams of Grandeur and have his name in the history books as the king of feralden who stopped a blight by fighting alongside the Grey Wardens. ( One would wonder though if he knew that everyone thought he was too unfit for a ruler and wanted to prove someone wrong)

true.

[Aimi]

Hell, you don't actually get the option of sparing Loghain. I executed him the same as anyone else; I just used a joining cup instead of a sword to do it. Takes a little longer to kick in, but at least he'll be of some use before then.

Pft. Life is a death sentence, but we don't say that mothers execute their children at birth.

"You know what I call semantics? W*nk!"

[Former_Fiend]

Pft. Life is a death sentence, but we don't say that mothers execute their children at birth.

"You know what I call semantics? W*nk!"

 

I'd argue that the eventual fate of the Grey Wardens is a worse death than simply getting one's head chopped off.

[AshenEndymion]

Pft. Life is a death sentence, but we don't say that mothers execute their children at birth.

"You know what I call semantics? W*nk!"

 

Mothers don't usually give their children poison at birth, and wait to see if they survive it's effects....

 

The Joining itself is the death sentence.  If the subject dies, their punishment was given.  If the subject survives, then they have a reprieve.  Either way, the life as they knew it is over.

[aTigerslunch]

Only twice did I not kill Loghain, one was to marry Anora and become king-consort while the other used Loghain to deal the deathblow on the Archdemon. Otherwise he dies for trying to kill my warden more than once and selling elves into slavery, which only one of my wardens didn't care about that so far.

 

Tactics......meh....not a strong selling point for me.

[AshenEndymion]

Otherwise he dies for trying to kill my warden more than once

 

So, when is the second time Loghain tries to kill the Warden?  Approving of sending Zevran is the first, sure.  But I don't know when the second attempt would be beyond the duel in the Landsmeet.

[Shark17676]

Selling the elves to raise funds, while morally reprehensible, wasn't a bad move in and of itself

 

I really don't think you can call slave trafficking a "good move" on any level.  There's no defending Loghain there.

[aTigerslunch]

2nd attempt at killing but not immediately is when in prison. Death was to follow while being there, just didn't happen cause escaped. The third would be Landsmeet.

[Fizzie Panda]

Oh Loghain?

 

Yeah he's dead.

[AshenEndymion]

I really don't think you can call slave trafficking a "good move" on any level.  There's no defending Loghain there.

 

Sure there is.  Loghain removes the most unruly and unproductive section of the population, and gains money to pay for the army he needs for the current civil war.  It's a win-win.  The only reason not to resort to slave trafficking is "morality"(ie "slavery is wrong").  Loghain doesn't have any moral leg to stand on, but to imply there are no legitimate reasons for the deal is ludicrous.

 

2nd attempt at killing but not immediately is when in prison. Death was to follow while being there, just didn't happen cause escaped. The third would be Landsmeet.

 

Debatable.  If Loghain was going to execute the Warden quickly(meaning, before the Landsmeet concluded), there would be no reason for Cauthrien to allow the Warden wake up in the prison cell(assuming you didn't surrender).   As such, I can't really see how it can be counted as an attempt to kill you, since the public execution(and it would be a public execution, because that's the only reason the Warden is still alive) never even has a chance to manifest itself.

 

And while I can see the reasoning behind the idea that the Landsmeet duel is an attempt by Loghain to kill you, it also could be construed as self-defense since the Warden would be trying to kill him.  Well, that and it's not really "a duel to the death", it's more "a duel until someone yields", but the Warden doesn't ever yield...

[aTigerslunch]

Loghain wouldn't of yielded either. But I did say death was to follow, but escaped before anything can come to fruition with that. Not sure how it would of gone if the Warden doesn't escape. Well.......actually do know.

 

If the Warden doesn't escape, it will be everyones death.   Dag crab nuts........I just realized the ultimate evil choice.....couldn't be allowed to do......My evil warden would of watched the Darkspawn kill everyone and not care.   Just sit back and not try to fight the Archdemon, turn around kill Loghain. He was the only other choice in my part besides warden and his dog (Cousland). Vengeance for his families death, allowing the Archdemon destroy Denerim and laugh maniacally. Support the Archdemon and kill the rest of the Wardens. That would be that Wardens lot choice. They killed his first gf, now everyone must die. So, screw the throne, Anora gets beheaded too.

 

Uh, yeah....

 

I see that option of death from prison only up in the air possibility, would of happened if not escaped I am sure. Loghain being behind it, cause he still wanted Warden dead. Landsmeet, depending on how it goes actually, one direction could be his defense while the other could be wardens defense, depending on who was winning?  So definitely one attempt, second is iffie, third can be questionable.

[AshenEndymion]

The Warden in prison I liken to the Dwarven Commoner origin.  Beraht locks the DC in a dungeon, and attempts to kill the DC when he breaks out of the cell and tries to leave.  But if the DC doesn't break out of the dungeon, he just wastes away and dies.  Beraht doesn't ever kill him(or try to).  And considering Leske is alive, it says to me the DC chooses to die.  Beraht just allows the DC to choose his fate...

 

My point is that yes, the Warden will die if he just waits in the prison for his execution date.  But until he is taken out of his cell for his execution, I don't think one can really say Loghain has tried to kill the Warden yet...

 

As for the duel.  Loghain does yield.  Then the warden decides Loghain's fate.  How the duel itself starts depends on how much support the Warden received.  Loghain and his forces could attacked the Warden's party(or vice versa), or the Warden could offer Loghain a duel to begin with.  Only the first option(Loghain and his forces attacking the Warden's party) has Loghain initially trying to kill anyone.

 

I can see how you read these as attempts on the Warden's life, though...  So, while I disagree in thinking that they actually are attempts, the question is answered.