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[Corto81]

I got no idea how people are defending Loghain.

It was an improvised move to retreat from Ostagar (leaving even Cauthrien in surprise), it was planned in advance and for political gains - as evidenced by his minion Howe slaughtering the Couslands - children included.

 

He (Loghain) doesn't care about fighting the Blight, and wants to kill all the Grey Wardens.

 

His Orleais plan/feeling was correct, but what he did was for personal gain and led to deths of thousands and thousands.

Some through pre-planned murder, some through leaving the battlefield and thousands of his comrades to die.

And that's without even mentioning the Civil War etc.

 

Guy was a douche, no more suited for reign than Cailan. Difference is Loghain is a me-first-disguised-as-Ferelden-murderer, and Cailan was a well-meaning, naive glory seeker.

One is much better than the other.

Loghain is a moral turd.

There's no defending that guy.

[Spicen]

Given Loghain was proven right about Orlais, his paranoia was spot on and appropriate.

Dude was just unfortunate with the series of events around him, with Cailan acting like he did, the banns, Howe, etc etc along with his questionable decision making at times.

Not saying Loghain is completely clean;he most certainly isn't, but damn did stuff fall apart around him.

It was awesome being able to talk to him about it after being recruited, and to talk to him again in DA:Awakening.

His Awakening dialogue is what makes me hope he's in Inquisition in more than just a passing role.

Unfortunate? I dont know how to even reply to you without breaking some rules but i will keep things civil.
You see it was very unfortunate that our stupid warden has to go on and ruin loghain's plan. I guess there shud be a kill switch to kill ur stupid warden who goes on to spoil Loghain's plans. You see your Mr. Spot on Loghain missed a tiny little archdemon who was probably lmfao- ing at how he was ready to hand Fereldan to the archdemons over orlesians. You see thing is, he had a theory that the blight was not real even as darkspawn were ravaging his supposedly beloved Fereldan. But of course that stupid warden of yours has to go on and spoil the party.

People put cailan down for his stupidity but stop short of loghain, yet loghain is an even bigger idiot not trusting the wardens despite the wardens being universally known for their knowledge on darkspawn. He thinks the grey wardens, orlais and darkspawn are all conspiring against him. He was living in another world, not reality. Maybe cailan was stupid but then loghain was a lunatic, a psychl and a mentally ill guy who needed to be put down like the dog he was.

As for your affinity for loghain as a companion, i can only pass my condolences to alistair. He fervently supported the warden throughout the game. Maybe if he was a traitorous scum like loghain he wud hav gotten more respect.

[LPPrince]

I got no idea how people are defending Loghain.

 

Lets give it a shot.

 

It was an improvised move to retreat from Ostagar (leaving even Cauthrien in surprise), it was planned in advance and for political gains - as evidenced by his minion Howe slaughtering the Couslands - children included.

 

Wrong. Word of God states Loghain had no foreknowledge of what Howe did to the Couslands along with no hand in it;Loghain was in no position to do anything about it once he found out after the act had occurred.

 

He (Loghain) doesn't care about fighting the Blight, and wants to kill all the Grey Wardens.

 

Loghain absolutely would care about taking on the Blight if he knew one was even occurring. The Wardens were so secretive, they gave him and everyone else no reason to believe a blight was even happening. Note that at that point in time, Blights were thought to not even occur anymore. It'd been a long time since the last one, people wondering what the use for Wardens even were.

 

His Orleais plan/feeling was correct, but what he did was for personal gain and led to deths of thousands and thousands.

Some through pre-planned murder, some through leaving the battlefield and thousands of his comrades to die.

And that's without even mentioning the Civil War etc.

 

Out of curiosity, what personal gain exactly? All of his decisions, literally all of them, even the morally reprehensible ones were done to keep Ferelden at its strongest, able to take on whatever force was working against it. As for the Civil War, his plan was to unite the banns;they made the decision to rebel and thus begin the Civil War.

 

Guy was a douche, no more suited for reign than Cailan. Difference is Loghain is a me-first-disguised-as-Ferelden-murderer, and Cailan was a well-meaning, naive glory seeker.

One is much better than the other.

Loghain is a moral turd.

There's no defending that guy.

 

Douche bag? Absolutely. Kingly material like Cailan? Perhaps a bit better if he ever went for the role(he didn't;he named himself King Regent in time of war yet Anora was the one truly with the power) but still wouldn't be the best choice, absolutely. Moral turd, thats up to you.

 

But clearly, he can be defended. Thats what makes him so great.

 

Two sides, same coin and all.

[LPPrince]

Unfortunate? I dont know how to even reply to you without breaking some rules but i will keep things civil.

 

Then perhaps calm down a little, try to see things from someone else's perspective, and if you even have to say something like that on a forum, take a step back and not actually attempt to respond to them? Come back later once rested?

 

I've noticed that within this thread you've been getting waaay too offended that people disagree with you on Loghain;thats the great thing about him, he's divisive.

 

The beautiful thing about opinions is that they differ from one person to the next;and as it so happens, plenty of people out there can find perfectly rational ways of explaining why they find Loghain so fascinating;his way of thinking, his past traumas leading to his distastes, his strategies, his methods, etc etc.

 

If you find yourself constantly wondering how someone can like Loghain, and then when someone voices their opinions you feel and I'll quote you directly,

 

"I dont know how to even reply to you without breaking some rules"

 

then perhaps you should consider lightening up a bit. Only one I see getting heated in this thread is you, and for no other reason than people disagree with you and are open for discussion regarding why they do.

[Milan92]

Guys, let's just leave them in their own black & white world. They obvlously can't be reasoned with our greyness.

[LPPrince]

 

I'm out.

 

Thanks for posting that quote, I missed it during my read through of the thread. Wouldn't of posted here had I seen it. I'm out.

[Milan92]

It'd be funny if Loghain's cameo in Inquisition is the equivalent of 1000 galactic readiness and people who killed him lose that resource. I wonder how many people will go back to the Keep to change their tune?

 

I really do hope he'll have a big role. Maybe he is the key to an alliance with the Wardens.

[Spicen]

....

.......

..........

Wow.

Are you seriously comparing Loghain to Satan?

There is no way to respond to such close minded, judgmental nonsense as this.

I'm done. Seriously this time. Any and all semblance of discussion and debate is gone. You want to hate on Loghain? Fine, have fun.

I'm out.

Not my point. And no i didnt compare. Point was if you want to defend sth, anything you can defend it. You can defend the devil if you want to. I did not make any comparasion, nor did i say the people in BSN do it

[Spicen]

Guys, let's just leave them in their own black & white world. They obvlously can't be reasoned with our greyness.

In order to recruit Loghain, you have to abandon Alistair. There is nothing grey about that.

[Samahl]

In order to recruit Loghain, you have to abandon Alistair. There is nothing grey about that.

 

Alistair is the one who throws a fit and abandons you.

[Spicen]

Alistair is the one who throws a fit and abandons you.

Right after you give him the middle finger and make friends with the man who did many nasty things. (seriously how many times do i have to go over this)

[Samahl]

Right after you give him the middle finger and make friends with the man who did many nasty things. (seriously how many times do i have to go over this)

 

Because wanting to keep him alive and suffer as a Grey Warden instead of opting for a quick execution totally means you're besties with him.

 

O...kay.

[Spicen]

Because wanting to keep him alive and suffer as a Grey Warden instead of opting for a quick execution totally means you're besties with him.

O...kay.

I get what you are trying to say. But there is something called justice. I strongly believe in it. I inherently hate it and cannot tolerate it. Plus, i have sth in my mind which keeps telling me that people who support injustice are wrong.
Perhaps this will explain everything

[Samahl]

I get what you are trying to say. But there is something called justice. I strongly believe in it. I inherently hate it and cannot tolerate it. Plus, i have sth in my mind which keeps telling me that people who support injustice are wrong.
Perhaps this will explain everything

 

Why is there only one method of serving justice? Keeping Loghain alive and having him repent by sacrificing himself to kill the Archdemon seems like a perfectly reasonable way of achieving that goal.

[Spicen]

So executing a criminal instead having that criminal atone is justice to you? Sounds more like vengeance to me.

The difference between them is thinner than the edge of the sword. You should know that.
But i would not categorize this as vengeance. If i had vengeance i wud have gone for his family too. But justice demands that he met the blade.
Just one more thing for atonement: it wud just prove that if you are a guy with good military skills, you can go on and kill anyone you please.

[Samahl]

Just one more thing for atonement: it wud just prove that if you are a guy with good military skills, you can go on and kill anyone you please.

 

I doubt Loghain will be killing anyone after the Archdemon is dead if you're planning on having him finish the job.

[Dabrikishaw]

No you're ass-pulling. If you're for 'justice' as you say you would allow Loghain to live and work off his crimes as a Warden or have him sacrifice himself to destroy the Archdemon. Execution is hardly justice in this situation. Not when there are alternatives. Justice is about harmony and balance

So sparring Loghian and recruiting him into the Grey Warden order is the only real justice you can inflict on him? Anything else is a weak excuse?

[Spicen]

Execution is hardly justice. Justice is about harmony and balance. What you're describing is vengeance.

Is it not? Do i have to go all over his crimes again? Do you know that people can get hanged for murdering one man. Do i need to make a list this time of his crimes. Try for one moment thinking bout it in Alistair's shoes.

[Spicen]

No one is defending his crimes after Ostagar. Retreating from Ostagar wasn't a crime. That was a military decision. But your head is far up somewhere that you refuse to recognize it.

Err excuse me, how many times do i have to repeat that cailan was a fool.
That was a military decision. But.....that was also treason. Im sorry, but i hate traitors. Maybe hating traitors is a bad thing in your country but not mine.