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[Samahl]

If anything the warden betrays him first. 

 

How?

 

I'm not sure why that's brushed aside but Alistair's betrayal is seen as some grand injustice.

 

I don't see it as some grand injustice. I was originally responding to Spicen's blatantly incorrect post, which stated that the Warden abandoned Alistair.

 

That's not abandonment. That's you saying "I don't care if you leave" and him going "Fine."

 

There's no option for the Warden to try and convince Alistair to stay? I wouldn't know, because I've always killed Loghain.

[Dabrikishaw]

When that person has resulted in other people's daughters and children being killed by the darkspawn horde or enslaved by tevinters?

 

Yes I shall shed a solitary tear.

 

Not to mention the Landsmeet was his trial.

And of course, this as well.

[Ryzaki]

I like Anora as much as I like her dad, so getting to cover her in Loghain's blood is admittedly funny after her cute attempt at siding with him at the Landsmeet.

 

I can't really blame her for trying to keep her throne. I think betraying a warden who merely goes they're killing Loghain without question (particularly a HN) despite them openly supporting her as solo queen was a bafflingly stupid move on her part. Understandable but idiotic. Hardened Alistair's amusement to the situation just made my warden grouse and make him king.

[Spicen]

I like Anora as much as I like her dad, so getting to cover her in Loghain's blood is admittedly funny after her cute attempt at siding with him at the Landsmeet.

Anora is a politician. Thats what a proper politician usually do.

[Samahl]

Execution is justice. I mean c'mon man seriously that guy ended or ruined many innocent lives. I held my self back but what wud you do if someone kills somebody close to you. Would you go and say, "Hey, i know you killed somebody close to me but guess what since im impressed by your skills i want to recruit you in my company. We need ppl like you." I know i wudnt. First thing i wud look for is Capital Punishment

 

You said that if you could, you'd have Anora raped in front of Loghain. Again, no one who actually wanted justice would ever consider doing something so flagrantly unjust.

[Spicen]

I can't really blame her for trying to keep her throne. I think betraying a warden who merely goes they're killing Loghain without question (particularly a HN) despite them openly supporting her as solo queen was a bafflingly stupid move on her part. Understandable but idiotic. Hardened Alistair's amusement to the situation just made my warden grouse and make him king.

This.

[Ryzaki]

How?

 

 

I don't see it as some grand injustice. I was originally responding to Spicen's blatantly incorrect post, which stated that the Warden abandoned Alistair.

 

 

There's no option for the Warden to try and convince Alistair to stay? I wouldn't know, because I've always killed Loghain.

 

Did you not see the scene or something? Alistair pretty much BEGS you not to pick Loghain over him. THat's how. You introduce a man who Alistair can't tolerate for several reasons into Alistair's "brotherhood". You tell the guy who's been with you from the beginning of the game, who's shed blood with the warden, who no matter what choices the warden made or how morally repugnant he felt he/she was stayed by their side (whining yes but he was there) that he means less to you than the general you've seen in most origins for all of 10 minutes and spent the time you did see him trying to get you killed and running the country into the ground.

 

I mean...you really don't see how Alistair feels betrayed in this?

 

Abandoned no. But I'm not seeing the grand betrayal Alistair did considering again the Warden did it first. Some players can't take ****** for tat.

 

There's not you can ask him to stay but he'll go "you made your choice." which you did.

[Ryzaki]

You said that if you could, you'd have Anora raped in front of Loghain. Again, no one who actually wanted justice would ever consider doing something so flagrantly unjust.

 

wat.

 

Oh god what? =/

 

*facepalms*

 

I can understand having her killed cause political rival that refuses to swear loyalty but no to the bolded. Just...

[Dabrikishaw]

I can't really blame her for trying to keep her throne. I think betraying a warden who merely goes they're killing Loghain without question (particularly a HN) despite them openly supporting her as solo queen was a bafflingly stupid move on her part. Understandable but idiotic. Hardened Alistair's amusement to the situation just made my warden grouse and make him king.

When I play an elf,  I've gotten Anora's vote by having her agree to marry Alistair, then have Alistair kill Loghain in the duel. I will give her points for sticking with her convictions.

[Spicen]

You said that if you could, you'd have Anora raped in front of Loghain. Again, no one who actually wanted justice would ever consider doing something so flagrantly unjust.

I said clearly that this was vengeance. I even said it twice. Im trying to show the diff between vengeance and justice.
Execution was justice. Anora being a slanve was an example of any veng. i might hav.

[Ryzaki]

Uh what if you're his loyal friend up until this one decision where you both don't see eye to eye? It makes him look like a spoiled child not worthy of the title of Grey Warden. I'm going to agree with the Arishok on this one... the Wardens lose nothing when it is abandoned by weakness.

 

Then you just told him **** your friendship and he still means less to you than Loghain. if anything that makes it worse because at least with a warden he dislikes he knows they think little of him.

 

Which is fair...just don't complain about being betrayed when you did it first.

 

 

When I play an elf,  I've gotten Anora's vote by having her agree to marry Alistair, then have Alistair kill Loghain in the duel. I will give her points for sticking with her convictions.

 

? I've never gotten her to marry Alistair if he killed Loghain deal or not. I thought she refused to marry whoever dealt the blow. (Which again understandable but stupid move.)

 

She and Alistair are more alike than she admits.

[Samahl]

Did you not see the scene or something?

 

I picked it once, when I didn't know Alistair would ditch you for it. I reset right away. It was a while ago, so I don't remember much.

 

I mean...you really don't see how Alistair feels betrayed in this?

 

I can see how he feels betrayed, but it's not like he's trying to help stop the Blight on his own after he leaves, which, again, is going against his sworn duty.

[Spicen]

wat.

Oh god what? =/

*facepalms*

I can understand having her killed cause political rival that refuses to swear loyalty but no to the bolded. Just...

No Samahl read it wrong. Ofcourse, anora being a slave for her father wud be injustice. It wud be vengeance. I said it thrice. I was giving him an example of what vengeance is.

[Samahl]

I said clearly that this was vengeance. I even said it twice. Im trying to show the diff between vengeance and justice.
Execution was justice. Anora being a slanve was an example of any veng. i might hav.

 

That that could even occur to you as a potentially desired outcome demonstrates that you are not as devoted to justice as you claimed before.

[Ryzaki]

I picked it once, when I didn't know Alistair would ditch you for it. I reset right away. It was a while ago, so I don't remember much.

 

 

I can see how he feels betrayed, but it's not like he's trying to help stop the Blight on his own after he leaves, which, again, is going against his sworn duty.

 

Yeah he pretty much tells you several times no. If you pick it anyway well...it's clear what you chose.

 

And what is he going to do when he's leaving Denerim (cause he's been exiled you realize) to head out of the country? Should he just ignore the new Queen's law? He does have survival instincts. Anora demands his head unless you intervene. He clearly regrets it later on (since he becomes a drunk). It's a childish (he is like 20) but understandable reaction.

 

 

I'm not arguing it was a personal betrayal. I'm saying it was immature and childish especially when you consider the fate of the world hangs in the balance and the type of organization the Grey Wardens are. He's an immature oathbreaker. 

 

Oh agreed on the immature and childish. He throws down an ultimatium and gets huffy and ditches the wardens (and fails to see them outside of rose tinted glasses). I'm just saying it amuses me that people complain about it. You chose Loghain over him so clearly you didn't care that much.

 

Also Riordan is a goddamned idiot in this scene. He fails to explain why and doesn't think Alistair would be more reasonable if he knew. Then of course he hinges his bets on a possibility instead of an actual grey warden there. *shakes head*
 

[Spicen]

I'm not arguing it was a personal betrayal. I'm saying it was immature and childish especially when you consider the fate of the world hangs in the balance and the type of organization the Grey Wardens are. He's an immature oathbreaker.

And you would have a backstabber in your ranks. Wow.....

[Dabrikishaw]

No Samahl read it wrong. Ofcourse, anora being a slave for her father wud be injustice. It wud be vengeance. I said it thrice. I was giving him an example of what vengeance is.

If you had picked a better example, we wouldn't have gone down this road.

[Ryzaki]

No Samahl read it wrong. Ofcourse, anora being a slave for her father wud be injustice. It wud be vengeance. I said it thrice. I was giving him an example of what vengeance is.

 

Oh. Meh I'd just kill them both and call it a day. There's no need for long drawn out torture and it just serves to make the warden/Alistair look insecure in their position.

[Samahl]

No Samahl read it wrong. Ofcourse, anora being a slave for her father wud be injustice. It wud be vengeance. I said it thrice. I was giving him an example of what vengeance is.

 

You said you would do it if it was possible.

 

Execution was justice, but if it was possible i wud have kept him long enough for him to see his daughter be a slave in the alienage with the elves having their way with her.

[Spicen]

That that could even occur to you as a potentially desired outcome demonstrates that you are not as devoted to justice as you claimed before.

Honest answer: I would consider it but my conscience wudnt let me.

[Dabrikishaw]

Honest answer: I would consider it but my conscience wudnt let me.

Yeah that's the problem.

[jlb524]

I can see how he feels betrayed, but it's not like he's trying to help stop the Blight on his own after he leaves, which, again, is going against his sworn duty.

 

I'm sure he's not the first Warden to do so.  

 

I'm still don't know why you can't try to recruit someone other than Loghain.  And if Riordan had the means to recruit one person, why wouldn't he have started his search even before the Landsmeet?

[Samahl]

And what is he going to do when he's leaving Denerim (cause he's been exiled you realize) to head out of the country? Should he just ignore the new Queen's law? He does have survival instincts. Anora demands his head unless you intervene. He clearly regrets it later on (since he becomes a drunk). It's a childish (he is like 20) but understandable reaction.

 

Even so, he forsook his duty. I get that he was upset, but I still don't see how he didn't abandon you.