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[dragonflight288]

I believe one of the writers said that Duncan would've pulled all of the Fereldan Wardens out if he had lived through Ostagar.And I happen to like both Duncan and Loghain btw.

 

I think it was Laidlaw, though I could be wrong. 

[DragonRacer]

Oh, my, Loghain thread.

 

Heeeeeeeeeeere we go again!

[dragonflight288]

Oh, my, Loghain thread.

 

Heeeeeeeeeeere we go again!

 

Lol, then let's cut this short.

 

Want him to make a cameo? yes or no. Single word answer and you've fulfilled the purpose of the thread. 

[DragonRacer]

Lol, then let's cut this short.

 

Want him to make a cameo? yes or no. Single word answer and you've fulfilled the purpose of the thread. 

 

Yes. I    Loghain.

 

And have seen threads devolve into debates about him (even many that started with no relation to him whatsoever) for the past five years now. 

[Hazegurl]

To be fair Duncan had planned on abandoning Fereldan to the Blight and regroup with the Wardens in Orlais if Ostagar went FUBAR.He just did'nt live to see it through.

I didn't know that. He should have took the Warden and Alistair and left right after recruiting him/her. He had plenty of warnings that things weren't going to go well. Calian not wanting reinforcements, Loghain and Calian not being on the same page, the small list of mages available, soldiers deserting, No one believing it was a Blight. Instead he choose to indulge Calian and join in a seriously stupid battle and instead of fleeing the battlefield he chose to remain and die.

 

The battle went FUBAR the moment Cailan sent one volley of arrows and then some hounds.

[Spicen]

Cailan's honour guard, of all people, says Cailan knew the battle would be lost (start of Return to Ostagar). When both the king and the general who managed to kick Orlais out are pretty sure a battle is lost, it probably is so. Everyone at Ostagar is positive because the higher-ups are not going to eff up morale by saying "yeah, chances are we'll lose". Regardless of whether it was actually possible, Loghain very clearly seems to think rescuing Cailan would've been impossible, even once recruited when all pretense is dropped.

Mind you, I've always felt Ostagar was a bit inconsistently written. To be expected I guess, once you hear of some of the plots that were originally in the game.

Loghain didnt want to save cailan. He always thought that orlesians were the greater threat than the darkspawn. infact hevdidnt even take them seriously. I played return to ostagar. Cailan was overconfident about winning let alone losing. Get ur facts right

[addiction21]

I believe

 

And that's when you know some one is making **** up.

 

What you believe does not mean **** unless you can back it up. So do it.

[Spicen]

Just one question for loghain lovers. If i were a woman would u choose to be raped by chevaliers or turned into a multi boobed broodmother

[dragonflight288]

Loghain didnt want to save cailan. He always thought that orlesians were the greater threat than the darkspawn. infact hevdidnt even take them seriously. I played return to ostagar. Cailan was overconfident about winning let alone losing. Get ur facts right

 

Gaider said that if Loghain felt the battle could be won, he would've charged. 

[Former_Fiend]

Just one question for loghain lovers. If i were a woman would u choose to be raped by chevaliers or turned into a multi boobed broodmother

 

Allow me to answer your question with another question;

 

Is english your first language?

[Samahl]

Is english your first language?

 

And that's relevant how...?

[Former_Fiend]

And that's relevant how...?

 

Because I'm not entirely sure how his hypothetical change in gender relates to another person's preference in rapists. 

[Shark17676]

He's the character I despise the most next to Isabela, but a Loghain cameo won't matter to me.  He's long since been resting in pieces in my canon universe.

[Spicen]

Gaider said that if Loghain felt the battle could be won, he would've charged.

Sure he wud. Everyone wants to win. But remember he waited for the fire at tower of ishal to retreat, meaning he planned for it. If i was loghain i wud have sent a small force to keep the spawns busy while an attempt to save the king and duncan.he showed no interest whatsoever. he didnt even try. While i respect gaider da storyline has been very inconsistent. Finally, how could u support someone who had a role in his king's death, took up regency with force, threatened to purge half the nation's army in civil war, assassinated eamon, hell bent on killing u and also blamed the wardens for his errors,etc the list goes on

[Elite Midget]

It was a lost cause, they didn't even hold them at the small pass to make up for being SEVERELY outnumbered. Charging the Darkspawn was a very dumb tactic, especially after everyone saw the Horde. Loghain was right to believe that they couldn't win there, especially against those numbers and the supposed "Archdemon" hadn't shown itself yet, as well as being wary or Orlias as it was no mystery that they wanted to retake Ferelden. Once the Blight was over do you honestly believe that they would leave Ferelden without a fight? A fight that Ferelden couldn't afford or win out?

 

However, blaming the Grey Wardens was a mistake and this was due to Loghain's speculation over whether they were fighting against a real Blight as well as how Cailan song praises of Grey Wardens and trusted them more than tactics. Even Duncan wanted to wait for reinforcements and had a back up plan for if the battle was lost.

 

Loghain also betrayed Cailan to protect Anora, something he kept hidden from her.

[Samahl]

Because I'm not entirely sure how his hypothetical change in gender relates to another person's preference in rapists. 

 

Presumably, he chose that wording because it's impossible to become a broodmother unless you possess a womb (which is not synonymous with womanhood, but his meaning was clear). I do think it's a bad hypothetical - I'm just generally irked by people who pick on the way others type/speak.

[Elite Midget]

Duncan wasn't the only Grey Warden there and I doubt that he was the highest ranking one. So he may have had orders to remain as the High Command wouldn't know the situation fully enough to offer proper insight. The Grey Wardens also wouldn't want to cause tension with Cailan and abandoning him would have done that.

Sure he wud. Everyone wants to win. But remember he waited for the fire at tower of ishal to retreat, meaning he planned for it. If i was loghain i wud have sent a small force to keep the spawns busy while an attempt to save the king and duncan.he showed no interest whatsoever. he didnt even try. While i respect gaider da storyline has been very inconsistent. Finally, how could u support someone who had a role in his king's death, took up regency with force, threatened to purge half the nation's army in civil war, assassinated eamon, hell bent on killing u and also blamed the wardens for his errors,etc the list goes on

Simple - Loghain didn't believe the Blight was actually happening as there had been zero signs of an Archdemon that were known to non-Wardens. He also kept the Darkspawn contained for the most part and was winning battles with his tactics. 

 

Loghain is also an example of how far a Father will go to protect his Daughter. He was selfish because he was human and he was scared that his daughter was going to be cast aside and treated like trash even though she was the only competent one on the throne when Cailan ruled.

[Spicen]

Because I'm not entirely sure how his hypothetical change in gender relates to another person's preference in rapists.

Man ur soooooo short sighted arent u?
it was an indirect question about whether u wud choose to surrender to orlesians or get consumed by blight. Would a woman really take the pain of years of producing darkspawn(becoming a broodmother isnt exactly painless either).

[Former_Fiend]

Presumably, he chose that wording because it's impossible to become a broodmother unless you possess a womb (which is not synonymous with womanhood, but his meaning was clear). I do think it's a bad hypothetical - I'm just generally irked by people who pick on the way others type/speak.

 

It was simply poorly worded. The question wasn't "would we rather s/he be raped by chevaliers or turned into a broodmother", but rather "if he was a woman, would we rather be raped by chevaliers or turned into a brood mother". That's like asking "If I was a duck, would you rather be pushed off a cliff or drowned in a lake?" What does one have to do with the other?

 

And I'm still not entirely sure what that has to do with anything; Loghain charging in an attempt to rescue Cailen's army would have only gotten his own men decimated. 

[Samahl]

It was simply poorly worded. The question wasn't "would we rather s/he be raped by chevaliers or turned into a broodmother", but rather "if he was a woman, would we rather be raped by chevaliers or turned into a brood mother". That's like asking "If I was a duck, would you rather be pushed off a cliff or drowned in a lake?" What does one have to do with the other?

 

His intent was quite obvious, though, so I still don't see the point in picking on it. But this is a derail, so I'll leave it at that.

[Spicen]

It was a lost cause, they didn't even hold them at the small pass to make up for being SEVERELY outnumbered. Charging the Darkspawn was a very dumb tactic, especially after everyone saw the Horde. Loghain was right to believe that they couldn't win there, especially against those numbers and the supposed "Archdemon" hadn't shown itself yet, as well as being wary or Orlias as it was no mystery that they wanted to retake Ferelden. Once the Blight was over do you honestly believe that they would leave Ferelden without a fight? A fight that Ferelden couldn't afford or win out?

However, blaming the Grey Wardens was a mistake and this was due to Loghain's speculation over whether they were fighting against a real Blight as well as how Cailan song praises of Grey Wardens and trusted them more than tactics. Even Duncan wanted to wait for reinforcements and had a back up plan for if the battle was lost.

Loghain also betrayed Cailan to protect Anora, something he kept hidden from her.

I agree with u. But he shud hav tried to atleast save the king. And sacrificing hundreds of men for ur daughter isnt very nice.

[Former_Fiend]

Man ur soooooo short sighted arent u?
it was an indirect question about whether u wud choose to surrender to orlesians or get consumed by blight. Would a woman really take the pain of years of producing darkspawn(becoming a broodmother isnt exactly painless either).

 

I'm not here to justify Loghain's actions, debate the morality of them, or justify my personal decision to spare him.

 

I think that if you killed Loghain and check the "killed loghain" box on the Keep, then he shouldn't show up in your game.

 

I think that if I spared Loghain and check the "spared loghain" box on the Keep, then he should show up in mine.

 

That's the extend of my opinion on the matter.

[Elite Midget]

I agree with u. But he shud hav tried to atleast save the king. And sacrificing hundreds of men for ur daughter isnt very nice.

Loghain did try to save the King, he told him not to be an idiot and that the plan wouldn't work. Cailan refused to listen and thus Loghain abandoned him as he wasn't going to waste his forces to save a fool child in a situation where he couldn't be saved. There were simply too many Darkspawn present.

 

Loghain isn't a nice man, he tries to think logical hence why he doesn't put much merit in "Legends" and believes Tactics can win the day against the Darkspawn. Which turns out to be the case, for the most part, since before Landsmeet he secured a lot of territory and the Darkspawn were pretty much at a standstill. The arrival of the Archdemon "Assuming Direct Control" is what changed things a great deal.

[Spicen]

It was simply poorly worded. The question wasn't "would we rather s/he be raped by chevaliers or turned into a broodmother", but rather "if he was a woman, would we rather be raped by chevaliers or turned into a brood mother". That's like asking "If I was a duck, would you rather be pushed off a cliff or drowned in a lake?" What does one have to do with the other?

And I'm still not entirely sure what that has to do with anything; Loghain charging in an attempt to rescue Cailen's army would have only gotten his own men decimated.

Loghain didnt cud havd sent a small force to help the king and duncan. He waited for the tower of ishal to light before signalling the retreat. He planned for this.
And my point for the broodmother question was to show that loghain was blinded by hatred for orlesians that he failed to see the real threat. If u dont understand this, i wud doubt ur english too

[Spicen]

It was simply poorly worded. The question wasn't "would we rather s/he be raped by chevaliers or turned into a broodmother", but rather "if he was a woman, would we rather be raped by chevaliers or turned into a brood mother". That's like asking "If I was a duck, would you rather be pushed off a cliff or drowned in a lake?" What does one have to do with the other?

And I'm still not entirely sure what that has to do with anything; Loghain charging in an attempt to rescue Cailen's army would have only gotten his own men decimated.

Loghain didnt cud havd sent a small force to help the king and duncan. He waited for the tower of ishal to light before signalling the retreat. He planned for this.
And my point for the broodmother question was to show that loghain was blinded by hatred for orlesians that he failed to see the real threat. If u dont understand this, i wud doubt ur english too