694 réponses à ce sujet

[Rawgrim]

Actually, the definition of RPG has varied because the terms Role, Playing and Game are incredibly vague. Kind of like Action/Adventure.

 

A Real RPG tends to mean nothing more or less than what a game that introduced the term to a player is. At least that's the common thread I've found.

 

The genre was pretty much set in stone 10 years ago. In recent years it has started to blurr. Just because a game has dialogue + an option on wich weapon to kill enemies with, its suddenly a roleplaying game.

 

Not saying that DA:I isn't a roleplaying game. Just speaking in general terms.

[Raven X]

the one thing I liked about DA2 over DAO was the combat.  I liked the added flair and flash, so I'm glad DAI combat is similar, while also being toned down a bit.

 

I did like the DAO finishing moves, though, and I hope they return in DAI.

[Navasha]

I am not a fan of non-magical abilities making fancy lights and such.   This has always been the case though even in DA:O (The best game of all time).    Leliana's bard songs and such all had effects to show they were in effect.    Luckily mods were made to tone down some of that, so you could still see your characters.   

 

I would much prefer weapons skills by rogues/warriors be demonstrated with a different stance or weapon twirls or something.   However, this would be just icing on an already delicious cake.   

 

As long as they toned down the over-the-top animations and such from DA2 to bring it back just slightly toward the side of realism over superhero comic book form... I will be happy.

[Deflagratio]

The genre was pretty much set in stone 10 years ago. In recent years it has started to blurr. Just because a game has dialogue + an option on wich weapon to kill enemies with, its suddenly a roleplaying game.

 

Not saying that DA:I isn't a roleplaying game. Just speaking in general terms.

 

Just because your opinions on what a particular genre is has faded into obsolescence doesn't mean it was ever set in stone.

[Sasie]

This is not Baldur' Gate. Not every plays the game as a Tactical game. Console player's never really had the options.

 

You remember us, right? The Console players?  Who Bioware is also making the game for? And who all don't play the game as invisible Sky-Generals? And might want their Rogue or Warrior to not be an auto-attack meat-shield for the Mage?

Truthfully I don't much care about console gamers no. I started to play Dragon Age due to Origins and it's a tiny bit annoying to see them change everything up in favour of console players and those who didn't like the original features of the game. Just adding a token tactical camera is not enough when the combat that justifies said camera view is no longer there.
 

 

I wish the idea that it's okay for non-mage classes to suck would die in a fire.

It doesn't have to suck but for me it's completely dumb to make none-mages into mages just to keep it interesting. Warriors shouldn't set their swords on fire with a thought, cause earthquakes with their swords or teleport randomly around the battlefield. If Bioware wanted that they should have added multi or dual classes to the game instead of breaking the lore constantly by making rogues and warriors do things that makes no sense. Just give rogues stealth for combat and focus on backstabbing, it's just as fun as magic in my opinion.

[Ridwan]

Just because your opinions on what a particular genre is has faded into obsolescence doesn't mean it was ever set in stone.

 

So we should welcome the fact that action games are now call RPG, because you slap a few dialogue choices on them?

[The Night Haunter]

I prefer the 'realistic' DAO combat. Speed it up a bit and its perfect (and kill the shuffling lol).

DA2's anime was a huge leap for the 'spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate', and in the wrong direction in my opinion. Warriors and Rogues don't have to be boring, but they should be at least believable, smashing the ground with your sword shouldn't raised 1/2 ton rocks out of the ground, that is patently ridiculous. Rogues teleporting around is also silly. Backflips that go 30 feet (please stop saying 100 feet people, even if you don't like it Sera moved 30 feet max, not 100s or 1000s of feet so chill a little and dislike the real distance moved not the fake exaggerated distance) are also silly.

[Rawgrim]

Just because your opinions on what a particular genre is has faded into obsolescence doesn't mean it was ever set in stone.

 

Yes it was. The games stayed true to the setting. You had to actually have the items you used. Choices mattered and affected the story. Your character was pretty much 100 percent your own. Skills and stats made sense. The laws of physics applied (unless explained otherwise from the beginning). And you had to actually think while playing. Nothing got spoonfed down your throat, or handed to you on a plate.

[Maria Caliban]

I want the next combat video to come out so we have something new to argue about.

[Deflagratio]

So we should welcome the fact that action games are now call RPG, because you slap a few dialogue choices on them?

 

Perhaps, or maybe people should stop holding something as arbitrary as a genre title as sacrosanct.

 

Yes it was. The games stayed true to the setting. You had to actually have the items you used. Choices mattered and affected the story. Your character was pretty much 100 percent your own. Skills and stats made sense. The laws of physics applied (unless explained otherwise from the beginning). And you had to actually think while playing. Nothing got spoonfed down your throat, or handed to you on a plate.

 

 

All of this has absolutely nothing to do with a genre. I can name First Person shooters, Puzzle games and dating sims that check all those boxes.

 

This will be my final word on the subject because I don't want Allan closing the thread down, but probably the best contribution to the gaming culture The Escapist has made is the robust Genre Classification wheel that takes real elements of core gameplay and hammers out Genres like that, and even this has gaps.

 

[Rawgrim]

Truthfully I don't much care about console gamers no. I started to play Dragon Age due to Origins and it's a tiny bit annoying to see them change everything up in favour of console players and those who didn't like the original features of the game. Just adding a token tactical camera is not enough when the combat that justifies said camera view is no longer there.
 

 

It doesn't have to suck but for me it's completely dumb to make none-mages into mages just to keep it interesting. Warriors shouldn't set their swords on fire with a thought, cause earthquakes with their swords or teleport randomly around the battlefield. If Bioware wanted that they should have added multi or dual classes to the game instead of breaking the lore constantly by making rogues and warriors do things that makes no sense. Just give rogues stealth for combat and focus on backstabbing, it's just as fun as magic in my opinion.

 

So much this.

 

And how about letting the players create their own kind of rogue? Not every thief in the world is a ninja. Some are just charismatic or good at lockpicking and sneaking.

[The Night Haunter]

So we should welcome the fact that action games are now call RPG, because you slap a few dialogue choices on them?

RPG was pretty much never a defined genre. JRPs are as old as 'western' rpgs. Fallout was very, very different from Baldur's Gate, from the original Diablo, from Deus Ex, all 'western' rpgs. There has never been a unified 'rpg' genre. RPG just means it has something along the lines of stat growth, character improvement, etc.

 

This fact has absolutely nothing to do with what you should or should not welcome, it is simply a fact.

[Rawgrim]

RPG was pretty much never a defined genre. JRPs are as old as 'western' rpgs. Fallout was very, very different from Baldur's Gate, from the original Diablo, from Deus Ex, all 'western' rpgs. There has never been a unified 'rpg' genre. RPG just means it has something along the lines of stat growth, character improvement, etc.

 

This fact has absolutely nothing to do with what you should or should not welcome, it is simply a fact.

 

All of those, except Diablo (wich is an action game), and most jrpgs I think, had one thing in common. You got to create your own character any way you wanted. And you got to play that character any way you wanted too.

[HellaciousHutch]

Yes it was. The games stayed true to the setting. You had to actually have the items you used. Choices mattered and affected the story. Your character was pretty much 100 percent your own. Skills and stats made sense. The laws of physics applied (unless explained otherwise from the beginning). And you had to actually think while playing. Nothing got spoonfed down your throat, or handed to you on a plate.

 

You know absolutely nothing about the RPG genre, don't you? That, or your rose-tinted glasses are so thick that you think a genre can't evolve over years and years (they do change), and instead, must stay with archaic, extremely outdated systems that only cause frustration and upset in most gamers.

[HellaciousHutch]

All of those, except Diablo (wich is an action game), and most jrpgs I think, had one thing in common. You got to create your own character any way you wanted. And you got to play that character any way you wanted too.

 

The action, fast(ish) paced combat system has nothing to do with what you're seemingly complaining about.

[Rawgrim]

You know absolutely nothing about the RPG genre, don't you? That, or your rose-tinted glasses are so thick that you think a genre can't evolve over years and years (they do change), and instead, must stay with archaic, extremely outdated systems that only cause frustration and upset in most gamers.

 

 

Actually I my work involves creating rpgs so...yes. I know a few things about it.

 

Evolve isn't the same as devolve. Most of the rpg systems the older games used, are still around today, and they sell very well too. So it doesn't frustrate gamers at all. That means they arn't outdated either.

[Rawgrim]

The action, fast(ish) paced combat system has nothing to do with what you're seemingly complaining about.

 

If you look closely at an earlier post, you will notice that it is tied to the flashy combat. Lore-breaking moves etc.

[Brogan]

Truthfully I don't much care about console gamers no. I started to play Dragon Age due to Origins and it's a tiny bit annoying to see them change everything up in favour of console players and those who didn't like the original features of the game. Just adding a token tactical camera is not enough when the combat that justifies said camera view is no longer there.

 

I would argue the addition of the tac cam (to the pc version) is indeed token, but not because of any changes to combat style, but because it's redundant with the camera system we should be getting.  Of course I have not seen the pc version yet, so perhaps there's another good reason (that wasn't engine related).

[HellaciousHutch]

Actually I my work involves creating rpgs so...yes. I know a few things about it.

 

Evolve isn't the same as devolve. Most of the rpg systems the older games used, are still around today, and they sell very well too. So it doesn't frustrate gamers at all. That means they arn't outdated either.

 

That's good, because my job involves game design and project management too (as well as computer security and networking). You're talking too much nonsense, especially if you know so much about RPGs and work on them (as you say you do), because a games combat system doesn't dictate what genre of game it is. (A game can also fall into more than a single genre).

[The Night Haunter]

All of those, except Diablo (wich is an action game), and most jrpgs I think, had one thing in common. You got to create your own character any way you wanted. And you got to play that character any way you wanted too.

Your being a little arbitrary with 'any way you want'. In Deus Ex you can indeed play a smooth talker who never gets into combat. In Baldurs Gate that isn't really possible (combat is like 80% of that game). From that perspective DAI is indeed a true rpg, you can create your own character and play it the same as you could in Baldur's Gate.

 

My point was that these 'core' rpgs are all wildly different. Deus Ex was a first person focusing on dialogue and choices and alternative paths. Fallout was a top-down view controlling a single character focused on satire (and bloody messes) with plenty of combat and dialogue/choices thrown in. Baldur's Gate was an isometric view game focused pretty much exclusively on party/team combat (the original) with some choices thrown in, but not much.

There has never been a true unified RPG genre, there have been tactical rpgs (BG), action rpgs (Diablo), open world rpgs (fallout), and I have no idea how to classify Deus Ex lol, a mix fps/rpg/puzzle.

[Allan Schumacher]

Further discussion over what is or is not an RPG is going to cause me to have to intervene in some capacity.  And it's lunch hour soon so I'll actually have the time to do so!

 

The argument goes in circles and is never productive, so I'm stopping it right now.

[Rawgrim]

Anyway. Dropping the subject. Its off topic. I think the combat sucks. Exploration looks great. The companions and all that will be great too. They allways are in Bioware games.

[Deflagratio]

Personally, I think the embellished animations are actually helpful for gameplay, especially in larger scale battles. At a glance, there's no real difference between Heavy Blow and a regular axe swing, but with the ground fissure effect, it's very easy to tell when zoomed out that the effect just executed, it requires less brain cycles to process the information and react.

 

This is why MMO's tend to use over the top effects, in a massive raid with 20 people, you may need to coordinate abilities faster than vent or typing can allow, the instant and intuitive feedback of effects lets you know what's going on without having to read Sigmund Ringeck's Knightly Arts of Combat to recognize subtle stance and animation forms.

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 30 juillet 2014 - 06:11 .
Removed quote, but post is well enough on its own.

[The Night Haunter]

Anyway. Dropping the subject. Its off topic. I think the combat sucks. Exploration looks great. The companions and all that will be great too. They allways are in Bioware games.

I don't think I'd so far as to say the combat sucks, but I definitely prefer more realistic combat to anime nonsense. Thankfully DAI seems a bit tuned down from DA2, but not quite far enough in my opinion. Hopefully because this is still Alpha and all demos so they want everything to be flashy and visible the 'spell-effects' that pop up all over the place in the demos will be way tuned down in the final game. As it is now it can be hard to see the actual game because of all the spell effects flying everywhere, and blowy auras surrounding everything, and random balls of magic circling every single character.

[CronoDragoon]

I don't think I'd so far as to say the combat sucks, but I definitely prefer more realistic combat to anime nonsense. Thankfully DAI seems a bit tuned down from DA2, but not quite far enough in my opinion. Hopefully because this is still Alpha and all demos so they want everything to be flashy and visible the 'spell-effects' that pop up all over the place in the demos will be way tuned down in the final game. As it is now it can be hard to see the actual game because of all the spell effects flying everywhere, and blowy auras surrounding everything, and random balls of magic circling every single character.

 

That was an issue (if one thinks it is an issue) in Origins, too, wasn't it? Or maybe I just played too much Arcane Warrior.

 

I doubt the gold game will have anything tuned down. They seem anxious to test out Frostbite's graphical power.

 

I like it, but then I like pretty colors.