475 réponses à ce sujet

[Jazzpha]

Pre-TME, I only knew that Celene was Empress and had no idea who Gaspard was at all.

 

Now, it is clear that Gaspard is the only choice for an ally to the Inquisition.  Of the three, he's the only one the Inquisitor could actually trust to honor any pledges of support.  The future of Orlais past the conclusion of the crisis is actually irrelevant to my decision, mainly because if we don't close the Tear there will be much bigger problems than who sits on the fancy chair in Val Royeaux.

 

It is not the purpose of the Inquisition to control nations or free oppressed peoples.  It is the purpose of the Inquisition to close a giant hole in reality and stop demons from pouring through it.  What happens after that goal is complete is outside our mandate.

 

+1 to you. At least one of my runs is going to be leading the Inquisition like as apolitical of a force as I can make it.

[AppealToReason]

Gaspard seems like a total bro and while he's a dick, he's at least an honourable dick. The kind of guy who's gonna tell you to "**** off" to your face most of the time. I dig that.

 

I'll support whichever is more likely to rule with an iron fist. Which had me on Gaspard's side for a while, but Celene un-pussified herself at the end and seemed like she was gonna stop being a wimpy ruler.

 

Can't wait to slaughter the elves.

[Sarcastic Tasha]

My character will not have read the masked empire so it shan't have any impact on her decision.

 

 

 

I personally liked Empress Celene in the book and from what we'd heard about her before. People seem to think she's stupid because Gaspard out manoeuvred her but it did take him twenty years to get the better of her and even then it was hardly a decisive victory, he isn't Emperor. 

[rolson00]

Gaspard seems like a total bro and while he's a dick, he's at least an honourable dick. The kind of guy who's gonna tell you to "**** off" to your face most of the time. I dig that.

 

I'll support whichever is more likely to rule with an iron fist. Which had me on Gaspard's side for a while, but Celene un-pussified herself at the end and seemed like she was gonna stop being a wimpy ruler.

 

Can't wait to slaughter the elves.

sorry to burst your bubble but its looking like you have to convince the elves to side with someone

[AppealToReason]

sorry to burst your bubble but its looking like you have to convince the elves to side with someone

 

Genocide is a kind of "side"

[Chari]

Yes
Prior to TMI I liked Celene
Now I despise her
Gaspard is a worthy ally and an opponent whom I will gladly support. At least until I can find someone more tolerable than these two
Also, kinda disappointed in P. Weekes. I'm never again reading D. Gaider's stories which involve templars or chevaliers and P. Weekes' stories which involve the dalish. They seem very biased against them and write them one dimensionally bad, evil, etc. Sad thing, since I do enjoy their books but dang, I expected neutrality from them. And how he justified the slaughter of the clan by illogically putting the blame on the dalish for city elves' problems while trying to make us sympathise with a woman who ordered a mass murder, slept with a woman which parents she hadkilled and showed little to none skills in both war and actual politics... Just left bad and bitter aftertaste

[Milan92]

Yes
Prior to TMI I liked Celene
Now I despise her
Gaspard is a worthy ally and an opponent whom I will gladly support. At least until I can find someone more tolerable than these two
Also, kinda disappointed in P. Weekes. I'm never again reading D. Gaider's stories which involve templars or chevaliers and P. Weekes' stories which involve the dalish. They seem very biased against them and write them one dimensionally bad, evil, etc. Sad thing, since I do enjoy their books but dang, I expected neutrality from them. And how he justified the slaughter of the clan by illogically putting the blame on the dalish for city elves' problems while trying to make us sympathise with a woman who ordered a mass murder, slept with a woman which parents she hadkilled and showed little to none skills in both war and actual politics... Just left bad and bitter aftertaste

 

It was the forbidden one Imshael who murdered the Dalish clan in the book and he had nothing to do with the city elves.

[Chari]

It was the forbidden one Imshael who murdered the Dalish clan in the book and he had nothing to do with the city elves.

I speak of a little dialogue between Celene and Briala before the slaughter as well as general portrayal of the dalish in the book
It was poorly done, like most templars in DA2 and orlesians in MotA - one-sided, one dimensional and generally "bad" and unlikeable or even well rounded like, let's say, Meredith and Loghain, who were antagonists but very well written

[Heimdall]

I speak of a little dialogue between Celene and Briala before the slaughter as well as general portrayal of the dalish in the book
It was poorly done, like most templars in DA2 and orlesians in MotA - one-sided, one dimensional and generally "bad" and unlikeable or even well rounded like, let's say, Meredith and Loghain, who were antagonists but very well written

...Meredith was well written?

 

Actually, neither of them was very well written.

[Chari]

...Meredith was well written?

Actually, neither of them was very well written.

She was an antagonist, but she was wellrounded, had believable personality, motives and wasn't a jerk for the sake of being a jerk. If you side with her she can be quite sympathetic at times
Loghain is well rounded and very sympathetic, though still "evil"
Templars in DAO could be seen as bad guys, but they still were much more sane than DA2's ones which were 95% cruel and 5% insane

[Milan92]

I speak of a little dialogue between Celene and Briala before the slaughter as well as general portrayal of the dalish in the book
It was poorly done, like most templars in DA2 and orlesians in MotA - one-sided, one dimensional and generally "bad" and unlikeable or even well rounded like, let's say, Meredith and Loghain, who were antagonists but very well written

 

I see. Its been quite some time since I read the book.

 

Though I disagree that Meredith was well written, but that doesn't matter right now.

[StrangeStrategy]

Briala is cool. Poor elves need some help; So long as Briala co-operates with the Dalish, then she'll have my support.
Celene I liked in the beginning. Then we learned she did some "bad" things to play the game. Boo-hoo, everyone must do that. I'd rather support her than Gaspard, but I'm worried about how much influence Morrigan has over her.

Gaspard. Uh, why would anyone help this guy make war on Ferelden? No. I respect his code of honour, but not his goals.

Michel needs to die, for his crime of releasing Imshael and killing a Dalish Clan. I mean, the moron thought breaking a stone circle would somehow kill a demon? xD

[Heimdall]

She was an antagonist, but she was wellrounded, had believable personality, motives and wasn't a jerk for the sake of being a jerk. If you side with her she can be quite sympathetic at times
Loghain is well rounded and very sympathetic, though still "evil"
Templars in DAO could be seen as bad guys, but they still were much more sane than DA2's ones which were 95% cruel and 5% insane

The problem with the writing was how far you had to go to actually get to those more sympathetic parts, they don't really reveal themselves until 90% of the way through the game and then only if you take particular paths to side with them (or spare them, in Loghain's case)

[StrangeStrategy]

...Meredith was well written?

 

Actually, neither of them was very well written.

 

I liked Meredith a lot. You learned that she (like most Templars) were once very idealistic and joined the order for good, but the hardships of it made them more pragmatic and pessimistic. For the greater good.

If you talk to her, you learn her family sheltered her apostate sister when they were little. Eventually, she turned into an abomination and murdered 72 villagers, including all of Meredith's family. From that day, Meredith learned that "The road to hell is paved with good intentions" and she decided to become a Templar.

She isn't black and white, she says"If you cannot show me another way, do not brand me a tyrant!" to Orsino, and he has no answer. 

But this is sort of off-topic

[Master Warder Z_]

Briala is cool. Poor elves need some help; So long as Briala co-operates with the Dalish, then she'll have my support.
Celene I liked in the beginning. Then we learned she did some "bad" things to play the game. Boo-hoo, everyone must do that. I'd rather support her than Gaspard, but I'm worried about how much influence Morrigan has over her.

Gaspard. Uh, why would anyone help this guy make war on Ferelden? No. I respect his code of honour, but not his goals.

Michel needs to die, for his crime of releasing Imshael and killing a Dalish Clan. I mean, the moron thought breaking a stone circle would somehow kill a demon? xD

 

And your fine with the Dalish summoning it in the first place? They brought one of the strongest demon's in existence into the waking world, and you blame the man who has dedicated his life to vanquishing it at fault for it being there?

 

You call Chevin's an idiot, I'd say that title rests solely with the dalish idiots who summoned the demon.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I liked Meredith a lot. You learned that she (like most Templars) were once very idealistic and joined the order for good, but the hardships of it made them more pragmatic and pessimistic. For the greater good.

If you talk to her, you learn her family sheltered her apostate sister when they were little. Eventually, she turned into an abomination and murdered 72 villagers, including all of Meredith's family. From that day, Meredith learned that "The road to hell is paved with good intentions" and she decided to become a Templar.

She isn't black and white, she says"If you cannot show me another way, do not brand me a tyrant!" to Orsino, and he has no answer. 

But this is sort of off-topic

With that line, I especially liked the pained expression and tone she had as she said that part. 

[The dead fish]

People seem to think she's stupid because Gaspard out manoeuvred her but it did take him twenty years to get the better of her and even then it was hardly a decisive victory, he isn't Emperor. 

 

Gaspard only started to move in 9:38, two years before, when he was finally convinced that Celene was too weak to rule Orlais and that finally he could save the Empire himself. It seems that prior to 9:38 where it is stated : " Unrest brews in Orlais as Grand Duke Gaspard de Chalons stirs dissent against reigning Empress Celene I. "  Gaspard didn't plot against her. Gaspard was certainly bitter because 20 years ago he was beaten by an adolescent, but it's likely he didn't move before 9:38 .

 

Also let's not kid ourself, if Gaspard didn't win, it's only because Celene is lucky as hell. Without the Eluvians, she would have been cornered, Gaspard with his troops were just behind and they found the Dalish Clan. His plan was perfect.

[Chari]

The problem with the writing was how far you had to go to actually get to those more sympathetic parts, they don't really reveal themselves until 90% of the way through the game and then only if you take particular paths to side with them (or spare them, in Loghain's case)

The problem is that even if you don't side with Meredith or Loghain their writers did take time to show that behind their plotting and slaughtering there is a genuine care and desire to make things better. They've made mistakes but they're not purely evil and have some good in them. In case of Meredith it's her sincere belief that mages endanger the city, Loghain's desire to save Ferelden on his own. Even Petrice truly tried to "save" Kirkwall from qunari's influence
They did bad stuff, but it's obvious they were just trying to do their best.
And then there're characters like majority of the templars in DA2 and the dalish in TMI when IR seems like the authors are thinking "are there more ways to show how cruel, ignorant and bad they are?"

[Heimdall]

I liked Meredith a lot. You learned that she (like most Templars) were once very idealistic and joined the order for good, but the hardships of it made them more pragmatic and pessimistic. For the greater good.

If you talk to her, you learn her family sheltered her apostate sister when they were little. Eventually, she turned into an abomination and murdered 72 villagers, including all of Meredith's family. From that day, Meredith learned that "The road to hell is paved with good intentions" and she decided to become a Templar.

She isn't black and white, she says"If you cannot show me another way, do not brand me a tyrant!" to Orsino, and he has no answer. 

But this is sort of off-topic

I get that, I just think it was poorly handled.

[Chari]

And your fine with the Dalish summoning it in the first place? They brought one of the strongest demon's in existence into the waking world, and you blame the man who has dedicated his life to vanquishing it at fault for it being there?

You call Chevin's an idiot, I'd say that title rests solely with the dalish idiots who summoned the demon.

It was Chevin who released the demon. It doesn't mean that he wouldn't get released later but it seems that prior to the humans' appearance they handled him pretty well
If they released the demon on their own it would be their fault. But they didn't, an outsider did. The one whose life they saved. An irony

[Chari]

Gaspard only started to move in 9:38, two years before, when he was finally convinced that Celene was too weak to rule Orlais and that finally he could save the Empire himself. It seems that prior to 9:38 where it is stated : " Unrest brews in Orlais as Grand Duke Gaspard de Chalons stirs dissent against reigning Empress Celene I. " Gaspard didn't plot against her. Gaspard was certainly bitter because 20 years ago he was beaten by an adolescent, but it's likely he didn't move before 9:38 .

Also let's not kid ourself, if Gaspard didn't win, it's only because Celene is lucky as hell. Without the Eluvians, she would have been cornered, Gaspard with his troops were just behind and they found the Dalish Clan. His plan was perfect.

Without Felassan they all would be dead by the end of the middle of the story. Except Gaspard, obviously

[Master Warder Z_]

It was Chevin who released the demon. It doesn't mean that he wouldn't get released later but it seems that prior to the humans' appearance they handled him pretty well
If they released the demon on their own it would be their fault. But they didn't, an outsider did. The one whose life they saved. An irony

 

Seeing as how it was capable of controlling the elves like a puppeteer, it was likely on there as long as it was just because it found the entire so humorous, i mean seriously.

 

It pulled Chevin's out there, froze all the Dalish in place and had them black out, you think it could have done that to any of the Dalish before their arrival to do the same? So i don't put very much on Chevin's for doing something that would have happened whenever the demon got bored of his cage.

 

So i'd disagree, they didn't handled Isamahel very well at all, assuming you can even "handle" a demon like that, warding demons seems to be something for erm, Demons that aren't anymore intelligent then a weevil.

[Chari]

Seeing as how it was capable of controlling the elves like a puppeteer, it was likely on there as long as it was just because it found the entire so humorous, i mean seriously.

It pulled Chevin's out there, froze all the Dalish in place and had them black out, you think it could have done that to any of the Dalish before their arrival to do the same? So i don't put very much on Chevin's for doing something that would have happened whenever the demon got bored of his cage.

So i'd disagree, they didn't handled Isamahel very well at all, assuming you can even "handle" a demon like that, warding demons seems to be something for erm, Demons that aren't anymore intelligent then a weevil.

I'm pretty sure that he couldn't get out of the circle, otherwise he would have done it earlier. He was pretty pissed at elves for doing this and murdering the poor fellas would be a way too enjoyable fun to miss.
Putting supernatural things into magical circles is a quire ancient and useful ritual.
I guess it needed someone like Chevin, wanting to have a choice. Otherwise why not manipulate Briala, Celene or any other elf in the clan?
The fool doomed them all. Adults, elderly, children... One fool coated a whole clan their lives. If there is a way to **** him up in the game, I won't miss it l

[Master Warder Z_]

I'm pretty sure that he couldn't get out of the circle, otherwise he would have done it earlier. He was pretty pissed at elves for doing this and murdering the poor fellas would be a way too enjoyable fun to miss.
Putting supernatural things into magical circles is a quire ancient and useful ritual.
I guess it needed someone like Chevin, wanting to have a choice. Otherwise why not manipulate Briala, Celene or any other elf in the clan?
The fool doomed them all. Adults, elderly, children... One fool coated a whole clan their lives. If there is a way to **** him up in the game, I won't miss it l

 

But the point of it is, He could have controlled some and walked them out there and presented them with a "choice" and he is freed, just as it happened, and poor fellows? They called him into the world and trapped him, they were idiots.

 

And why indeed? You said it yourself, his Bailiwick is choice, my point is though, He could have done it before their arrival with any one there.

 

And the elves did that to themselves before the Humans even arrived, i really don't feel much pity for them dooming themselves. You don't **** with one of the demons that taught the world blood magic and all sorts of neat stuff back in the early days.

[Chari]

But the point of it is, He could have controlled some and walked them out there and presented them with a "choice" and he is freed, just as it happened, and poor fellows? They called him into the world and trapped him, they were idiots.

And why indeed? You said it yourself, his Bailiwick is choice, my point is though, He could have done it before their arrival with any one there.

And the elves did that to themselves before the Humans even arrived, i really don't feel much pity for them dooming themselves. You don't **** with one of the demons that taught the world blood magic and all sorts of neat stuff back in the early days.

If he could, then he would have done it
He didn't, which means he couldn't
Sort of like that demon in DAO which we literally put together piece by piece
He is powerful and stuff, but due to some warding rituals and magic he can do nothing
That's how magic connecred to powerful denons works, quite often. They're like giant guns which can kill anything but won't shoot unless some imbecile pulls the trigger
In this case the imbecile was Chevin
And he'll pay for it
Michel deserves to rot in hell for what he did