192 réponses à ce sujet

[StealthGamer92]

IMO resorting to stealth implies that you can't take the enemy head-on. 

 

Hopefully it will play a large part, meaning you can go stealthily if you wish so. 

 

First off  you are not neccesarily weak or a coward to use stealth, stealth is the thinking man's tactic requiring constant vigilance careful planing and use of inteligence and other in field varriables to get the most effecient and least risky result.

 

Second I would ask nothing more than it just being there as an option. That or change the Infiltrator to not scream "STEALTH CLASS."

[Vazgen]

First off  you are not neccesarily weak or a coward to use stealth, stealth is the thinking man's tactic requiring constant vigilance careful planing and use of inteligence and other in field varriables to get the most effecient and least risky result.

 

Second I would ask nothing more than it just being there as an option. That or change the Infiltrator to not scream "STEALTH CLASS."

I agree, not being able to take the enemy head-on does not mean you're weak or you're a coward. In the trilogy we destroy hordes of enemies with a three-person squad. That's not really a smart thing to do usually

I did say "if you wish so" I'm well aware that not everyone enjoys stealthily bypassing enemies or taking them out from the shadows. Having the ability to evolve our character according to a certain playstyle will take care of that

[Malanek]

In a stealth game infiltrator would probably have to lose infiltration cloak because it would be too powerful. Can anyone recall exactly how it worked in the stealth section of the Arrival dlc for ME2? I have a feeling enemies could simply see through it for that part but don't recall exactly. If there is a stealth aspect added to the game the infiltrator would become exceptionally unbalanced.

 

Anyhow, personally I don't really want ME to become as stealth focused as games like Deus Ex or Dishonoured. Those games are quite cool but they play very differently and I prefer the gameplay in ME. They could look at adding in a few elements to gain an advantage or bypass certain encounters but I don't want to see every level designed to the extent that a "stealth game" would need to be classified as such.

[Revan Reborn]

Mass effect is a story-driven, tactical party-based, third person shooter. This is not a stealth game (Dishonored, Thief, etc.) and it never will be. "Stealth," as it currently has been used, is more of a temporary buff in order to increase damage and for enemies to briefly lose sight of you. This is likely all it will ever be, because again, BioWare games are not stealth experiences.This isn't a matter of me being unreasonable. This is purely impractical for what BioWare games do and it would not work or be balanced for the kinds of experiences BioWare makes. They simply cannot do everything.

[StealthGamer92]

Mass effect is a story-driven, tactical party-based, third person shooter. This is not a stealth game (Dishonored, Thief, etc.) and it never will be. "Stealth," as it currently has been used, is more of a temporary buff in order to increase damage and for enemies to briefly lose sight of you. This is likely all it will ever be, because again, BioWare games are not stealth experiences.This isn't a matter of me being unreasonable. This is purely impractical for what BioWare games do and it would not work or be balanced for the kinds of experiences BioWare makes. They simply cannot do everything.

 

 

In a stealth game infiltrator would probably have to lose infiltration cloak because it would be too powerful. Can anyone recall exactly how it worked in the stealth section of the Arrival dlc for ME2? I have a feeling enemies could simply see through it for that part but don't recall exactly. If there is a stealth aspect added to the game the infiltrator would become exceptionally unbalanced.

 

Anyhow, personally I don't really want ME to become as stealth focused as games like Deus Ex or Dishonoured. Those games are quite cool but they play very differently and I prefer the gameplay in ME. They could look at adding in a few elements to gain an advantage or bypass certain encounters but I don't want to see every level designed to the extent that a "stealth game" would need to be classified as such.

When I'm talking stealth in me I don't mean a way to sneak completely by I mean stealth lik ME3's Citadell dlc tried and almost got right already. Thw only problem in it was no mater how hard I tried I only got one or two kills then the AI auto-detected me even when I was well hidden. I am hopeing for MEN to have AI who react realistically to hit and run guerila tactics. I'll admi I'm no programmer but I think that adding a hit>run&hide>enemy lost>enemy searches ect. loop wouldn't be uotside the abilty of the dev team, would it?

[Vazgen]

In a stealth game infiltrator would probably have to lose infiltration cloak because it would be too powerful. Can anyone recall exactly how it worked in the stealth section of the Arrival dlc for ME2? I have a feeling enemies could simply see through it for that part but don't recall exactly. If there is a stealth aspect added to the game the infiltrator would become exceptionally unbalanced.

 

Anyhow, personally I don't really want ME to become as stealth focused as games like Deus Ex or Dishonoured. Those games are quite cool but they play very differently and I prefer the gameplay in ME. They could look at adding in a few elements to gain an advantage or bypass certain encounters but I don't want to see every level designed to the extent that a "stealth game" would need to be classified as such.

Arrival DLC stealth is a joke. There is an invisible line, so long as you don't cross it you can stand directly in the enemy line of sight and they never do anything. If you cross that line, you're detected, no matter if you are cloaked or not.

 

Mass effect is a story-driven, tactical party-based, third person shooter. This is not a stealth game (Dishonored, Thief, etc.) and it never will be. "Stealth," as it currently has been used, is more of a temporary buff in order to increase damage and for enemies to briefly lose sight of you. This is likely all it will ever be, because again, BioWare games are not stealth experiences.This isn't a matter of me being unreasonable. This is purely impractical for what BioWare games do and it would not work or be balanced for the kinds of experiences BioWare makes. They simply cannot do everything.

I find it funny how you claim that Bioware should push the boundaries of familiar and innovate in ME:Next when it comes to open world experience but go all "it's not a stealth game, they can't do everything" when it comes to stealth gameplay. They already tried to implement it twice (arguably more than open world which was only tried in ME1), I'm pretty sure it'll play a larger part in the next game.

We have an Infiltrator class that basically screams "stealth" but it was never realized. ME:Next has the possibility to fix that. 

Stealth does not have to be a Thief-like experience, it can rather focus on avoiding the enemy by unlocking different pathways, creating diversions (like on Virmire) and suppressed weapons allowing us to take out lone targets silently. 

Bioware games tell a story. They don't necessarily have to be you + 2 squadmate killing hordes of enemies. 

[Revan Reborn]

When I'm talking stealth in me I don't mean a way to sneak completely by I mean stealth lik ME3's Citadell dlc tried and almost got right already. Thw only problem in it was no mater how hard I tried I only got one or two kills then the AI auto-detected me even when I was well hidden. I am hopeing for MEN to have AI who react realistically to hit and run guerila tactics. I'll admi I'm no programmer but I think that adding a hit>run&hide>enemy lost>enemy searches ect. loop wouldn't be uotside the abilty of the dev team, would it?

Again, the problem is that Mass Effect has no precedent and is not built with that kind of AI in mind. What you are asking for is something along the lines of the Batman Arkham games, where you can disappear and the enemy will search for you. Maps haven't been built in such a fashion and the entire environment would have to be revamped to accommodate such an experience. Shepard was a soldier and we have evidence to believe the new protagonist will also be a soldier as well as N7. That kind of stealth gameplay just does not apply.

 

I find it funny how you claim that Bioware should push the boundaries of familiar and innovate in ME:Next when it comes to open world experience but go all "it's not a stealth game, they can't do everything" when it comes to stealth gameplay. They already tried to implement it twice (arguably more than open world which was only tried in ME1), I'm pretty sure it'll play a larger part in the next game.

We have an Infiltrator class that basically screams "stealth" but it was never realized. ME:Next has the possibility to fix that. 

Stealth does not have to be a Thief-like experience, it can rather focus on avoiding the enemy by unlocking different pathways, creating diversions (like on Virmire) and suppressed weapons allowing us to take out lone targets silently. 

Bioware games tell a story. They don't necessarily have to be you + 2 squadmate killing hordes of enemies. 

Yes, in ways that are feasible and actually make sense. Would it be practical for BioWare to turn the next Mass Effect into a turn-based strategy game like Civilization? No. Would it be practical to take away choice and make Mass Effect something more along the lines of Crysis? No. Innovation and pushing boundaries is key, but only in ways that are practical and further the foundation of what has already been built. Open world, exploration, and seeing planets has always been a major theme in Mass Effect, and BioWare attempted it in ME1. It's not something new or out of the realm of reason. Do not begin to suggest I am contradicting myself or holding a double standard. Stealth was not built for Mass Effect, and if combat remains relatively close to what we already have, it will not be practical going forward. I am not against the idea of stealth, as I enjoy stealth games. The issue is BioWare games are simply not built to support it.

 

Actually, on the contrary BioWare games do have be you + two squad mates killing hordes of enemies. That has been the BioWare gameplay formula since Baldur's Gate. That is what BioWare is known for. They make choice-driven stories as well as party-based gameplay experiences. For a stealth system to be feasible, you need to be solo, and the game needs to be built to facilitate that experience. Mass Effect has never been that. It has been very straight forward. Move on rails shooter with hordes of enemies in front. Do you see why this is out of the realm of reason?

 

The Infiltration class was not BioWare's attempt at failing to do stealth. It's exactly what BioWare intended. Making a pseudo-stealth class within the bounds of their game. I would not expect much more beyond that, unless BioWare decides to throw out two decades of tactical, party-based gameplay, which I find very unlikely.

[Vazgen]

Again, the problem is that Mass Effect has no precedent and is not built with that kind of AI in mind. What you are asking for is something along the lines of the Batman Arkham games, where you can disappear and the enemy will search for you. Maps haven't been built in such a fashion and the entire environment would have to be revamped to accommodate such an experience. Shepard was a soldier and we have evidence to believe the new protagonist will also be a soldier as well as N7. That kind of stealth gameplay just does not apply.

 

Yes, in ways that are feasible and actually make sense. Would it be practical for BioWare to turn the next Mass Effect into a turn-based strategy game like Civilization? No. Would it be practical to take away choice and make Mass Effect something more along the lines of Crysis? No. Innovation and pushing boundaries is key, but only in ways that are practical and further the foundation of what has already been built. Open world, exploration, and seeing planets has always been a major theme in Mass Effect, and BioWare attempted it in ME1. It's not something new or out of the realm of reason. Do not begin to suggest I am contradicting myself or holding a double standard. Stealth was not built for Mass Effect, and if combat remains relatively close to what we already have, it will not be practical going forward. I am not against the idea of stealth, as I enjoy stealth games. The issue is BioWare games are simply not built to support it.

 

Actually, on the contrary BioWare games do have be you + two squad mates killing hordes of enemies. That has been the BioWare gameplay formula since Baldur's Gate. That is what BioWare is known for. They make choice-driven stories as well as party-based gameplay experiences. For a stealth system to be feasible, you need to be solo, and the game needs to be built to facilitate that experience. Mass Effect has never been that. It has been very straight forward. Move on rails shooter with hordes of enemies in front. Do you see why this is out of the realm of reason?

 

The Infiltration class was not BioWare's attempt at failing to do stealth. It's exactly what BioWare intended. Making a pseudo-stealth class within the bounds of their game. I would not expect much more beyond that, unless BioWare decides to throw out two decades of tactical, party-based gameplay, which I find very unlikely.

Except in Dragon Age Origins you can ditch those two squadmates and go solo. In Armax Arena you can go solo. 

"Stealth was not built for Mass Effect" is your subjective opinion. In my opinion it pretty much is, especially with powers like tactical cloak and stealth implementation in Arrival and Citadel DLCs (which also featured suppressed weapon). 

You suggest in one thread to move away from "on the rails shooter" style and advocate for it in this thread. That comes across as pretty contradictory/holding double standard.

Once again, I'm not talking about making Mass Effect a Thief game in space. What I'm saying is entirely optional character evolution that can result in a playstyle different from "shoot everything that moves". If I were to sacrifice either that or open world experience - I'd choose the latter. 

[Revan Reborn]

Except in Dragon Age Origins you can ditch those two squadmates and go solo. In Armax Arena you can go solo. 

"Stealth was not built for Mass Effect" is your subjective opinion. In my opinion it pretty much is, especially with powers like tactical cloak and stealth implementation in Arrival and Citadel DLCs (which also featured suppressed weapon). 

You suggest in one thread to move away from "on the rails shooter" style and advocate for it in this thread. That comes across as pretty contradictory/holding double standard.

Once again, I'm not talking about making Mass Effect a Thief game in space. What I'm saying is entirely optional character evolution that can result in a playstyle different from "shoot everything that moves". If I were to sacrifice either that or open world experience - I'd choose the latter. 

I didn't realize Dragon Age Origins is a game in the Mass Effect franchise. Not to mention the Arena in Orammar was literally five minutes out of the entire 80+ hours of gameplay... Outside of Arrival and part of Overlord, how many times are we actually solo in the Mass Effect Trilogy? I'll leave you to think about it.

 

There is nothing subjective about what I said. I merely look at the "stealth" mechanics in ME3 and it is clear what it was made to do. I don't believe I ever advocated for a "shooter on rails." What I actually did say is Mass Effect has never been a stealth game and that is largely because of the party-based system, which has been in BioWare games forever. These are not solo experiences, and they are few and far between in the actual games. I'm all for BioWare changing how combat works, but I wouldn't expect this to become Dishonored, Thief, or Batman.

 

Fantastic. You want a stealth game more than an open world. As I said before, the latter is more feasible because it has been something BioWare has been hinting at for a long time and ME1 even tried to achieve it. Stealth has never been such a component, because again, Shepard was a soldier, and the new protagonist also appears to be a soldier. This is a tactical party-based, third person shooter. I have never played a game such as that with a full on stealth mechanic. It doesn't make sense and BioWare certainly hasn't done it for any of their games.

 

Obviously, you are going to want to believe what you want. You are strong with the straw man. All I will say is don't be shocked when the next Mass Effect doesn't have your stealth play style.

[Vazgen]

You twist your opinion with every post.

Your words

Actually, on the contrary BioWare games do have be you + two squad mates killing hordes of enemies. That has been the BioWare gameplay formula since Baldur's Gate. 

I gave you the example of Dragon Age Origins and suddenly those words became you meaning only Mass Effect games. Either stick to one opinion or express it more clearly.

You really want me to list all the times you play solo in ME trilogy? Arrival DLC, final part of Overlord DLC, starting part of ME2, Samara's loyalty mission, Thane's loyalty mission, Kasumi's loyalty mission, Normandy crash site, MSV Estevanico mission, Endangered Research Station, Citadel DLC main quest, Armax Arena (optional), Leviathan DLC (underwater sequence).

Three of these involve combat and stealth (Kasumi's LM, Arrival, Citadel DLC).

I'd say those hints are much more pronounced than empty environments of ME1 but you will stick to your opinion anyway. I'm also unsure if you read my posts to the end, since I explicitly said

Once again, I'm not talking about making Mass Effect a Thief game in space. 

Seeing a sentence like

I'm all for BioWare changing how combat works, but I wouldn't expect this to become Dishonored, Thief, or Batman

makes me think you don't actually read what I write and thus it's useless talking to you. 

And don't be surprised if ME:Next will actually have stealth mechanics implemented

[Revan Reborn]

You twist your opinion with every post.

Your words

 

I gave you the example of Dragon Age Origins and suddenly those words became you meaning only Mass Effect games. Either stick to one opinion or express it more clearly.

You really want me to list all the times you play solo in ME trilogy? Arrival DLC, final part of Overlord DLC, starting part of ME2, Samara's loyalty mission, Thane's loyalty mission, Kasumi's loyalty mission, Normandy crash site, MSV Estevanico mission, Endangered Research Station, Citadel DLC main quest, Armax Arena (optional), Leviathan DLC (underwater sequence).

Three of these involve combat and stealth (Kasumi's LM, Arrival, Citadel DLC).

I'd say those hints are much more pronounced than empty environments of ME1 but you will stick to your opinion anyway. I'm also unsure if you read my posts to the end, since I explicitly said

 

Seeing a sentence like

 

makes me think you don't actually read what I write and thus it's useless talking to you. 

And don't be surprised if ME:Next will actually have stealth mechanics implemented

I merely made a point that you are talking about two different franchises that approach party-based combat differently. You gave me an example of a five minute experience out of the 80+ hours of party-based gameplay in DAO. My opinion and argument hasn't changed, as I'm merely providing you with more evidence why what you want doesn't make sense in Mass Effect.

 

Arrival is really the only experience where you are solo for combat. Overlord was a mini-boss mechanic where you are solo for five minutes. ME2's opening was you walking on the Normandy... Samara's loyalty mission was talking to people and Morinth... Thane's loyalty mission was following NPCs... Kasumi's loyalty mission is talking to guests and breaking into a room... Normandy crash site is collecting items... Oh you are referring to that bad DLC from ME1, even though it was an optional simulation? 90% of what you provided was non-combat related and just walking around or talking. With your flawed rationale, you could say 70% of Mass Effect 3 is solo because you walk around on the Citadel by yourself...

 

We are talking about gameplay, as in tactical, party-based BioWare fashion. That is combat. You merely prove my point that most of Mass Effect's "solo experiences" aren't remotely related to combat.

 

You keep saying you don't want Thief or Dishonored, yet you then contradict yourself by asking for features that are only in those games. Do you not see the hypocrisy in your statements? Also, you weren't just in "empty environments" in ME1, but rather exploring them with the Mako, which, if you didn't know, is returning.

 

I'm reading exactly what you are writing. You make a lot of straw man arguments and constantly backpedal by giving me examples of "solo gameplay" which isn't remotely related to combat in Mass Effect at all. There are very few solo experiences in the trilogy, and that's because BioWare makes party-based games. What you want is simply not part of BioWare's methodology for making games. Could it happen? Anything is possible. Is it likely? Not at all.

 

BioWare is going to stay true to what Mass Effect is, a tactical party-based, third person shooter. They will try to make it as well-rounded as possible, but it's never going to be what you want, no matter how much you want it to be. I'm just merely suggesting you should have reasonable expectations rather than hoping for something BioWare has never indicated will happen.

[StealthGamer92]

Fantastic. You want a stealth game more than an open world. As I said before, the latter is more feasible because it has been something BioWare has been hinting at for a long time and ME1 even tried to achieve it. Stealth has never been such a component, because again, Shepard was a soldier, and the new protagonist also appears to be a soldier. This is a tactical party-based, third person shooter. I have never played a game such as that with a full on stealth mechanic. It doesn't make sense and BioWare certainly hasn't done it for any of their games.

 

You might not realize it but being N7(or pretty much any special forces) should automaticaly mean you know tactics like guerila warfare and other ways to take on numericaly superrior forces. Plus I want open world but to me open world can be rediculous if made too big. There is a good thing but then theres too much of a good thing.

[goishen]

You might not realize it but being N7(or pretty much any special forces) should automaticaly mean you know tactics like guerila warfare and other ways to take on numericaly superrior forces. Plus I want open world but to me open world can be rediculous if made too big. There is a good thing but then theres too much of a good thing.

 

 

This, especially bolded.  I like SR series.  Because it's only one city.  Even having two cities?  Forget about it.  Then, it's off to the races.  Bigger, Better, Faster, More!  (to completely rip off a 4 Non Blondes title)  How many is too much?  And at what point does it start to lose that feel? 

[Vazgen]

So you don't read what I write. Fantastic. If you didn't know, there is an option not to take any squadmate when picking the party for missions in DA:O. That's what I referred to.

You constantly and conveniently forget Citadel DLC for ME3 where you are alone and armed with a suppressed weapon having the ability to kill lone targets silently. Considering that is the latest ME-related content it is quite likely the elements of that will be used in ME:Next. 

I gave you three aspects of a possible stealth system in ME:Next - "avoiding the enemy by unlocking different pathways, creating diversions (like on Virmire) and suppressed weapons allowing us to take out lone targets silently". These are pretty much the core of any stealth game, saying that implementing those makes the game something like Thief is ridiculous. Adding to that, the last is implemented in Citadel DLC, the second - on Virmire, the first comes from level design that goes progressively more complex with every installment and would simply require clever planning.

So yeah, we rode the Mako in wastelands of ME1. You base your statement that Bioware "always wanted to make an open world game" on empty sandboxes of ME1, Dragon Age Inquisition which, in your own words, is a game from a different franchise, and their statement that ME:Next will be "massive". My statement about stealth gameplay inclusion is based on two attempts of its implementation in ME universe (one being the latest and the most successful). So, yeah, talk about straw man arguments.

 

BioWare is going to stay true to what Mass Effect is, a tactical party-based, third person shooter. They will try to make it as well-rounded as possible, but it's never going to be what you want, no matter how much you want it to be.

Now that's just hilarious Let me guess, you're Aaron Flynn in disguise? Or at least someone who works on ME:Next? If not, sorry, but your statements carry absolutely no weight for me.

[StealthGamer92]

BioWare is going to stay true to what Mass Effect is, a tactical party-based, third person shooter. They will try to make it as well-rounded as possible, but it's never going to be what you want, no matter how much you want it to be. I'm just merely suggesting you should have reasonable expectations rather than hoping for something BioWare has never indicated will happen.

But if a series never evolves it is sure to eventually lose it's fan's to "been there done that" mentallity no matter how much you polish and upgrade the experience. Take SC to me by SC:DA it was just that. Then in SCC they tried agro-stealth but that was worse but in SCB they found a pretty good ballance. The point being that ME needs to try new things and if they work great keep it, if they fail get rid of it, or if fans think it wasn' good but showed promise improve on it.

[Revan Reborn]

You might not realize it but being N7(or pretty much any special forces) should automaticaly mean you know tactics like guerila warfare and other ways to take on numericaly superrior forces. Plus I want open world but to me open world can be rediculous if made too big. There is a good thing but then theres too much of a good thing.

I'm quite aware of what being an N7 means. I also recognize they aren't assassins or thieves. N7 Operatives are soldiers trained to kill. BioWare is gaining plenty of feedback from DAI, plus they already have some experience from ME1. I'm not concerned about how open world will translate in the next Mass Effect.

 

So you don't read what I write. Fantastic. If you didn't know, there is an option not to take any squadmate when picking the party for missions in DA:O. That's what I referred to.

You constantly and conveniently forget Citadel DLC for ME3 where you are alone and armed with a suppressed weapon having the ability to kill lone targets silently. Considering that is the latest ME-related content it is quite likely the elements of that will be used in ME:Next. 

I gave you three aspects of a possible stealth system in ME:Next - "avoiding the enemy by unlocking different pathways, creating diversions (like on Virmire) and suppressed weapons allowing us to take out lone targets silently". These are pretty much the core of any stealth game, saying that implementing those makes the game something like Thief is ridiculous. Adding to that, the last is implemented in Citadel DLC, the second - on Virmire, the first comes from level design that goes progressively more complex with every installment and would simply require clever planning.

So yeah, we rode the Mako in wastelands of ME1. You base your statement that Bioware "always wanted to make an open world game" on empty sandboxes of ME1, Dragon Age Inquisition which, in your own words, is a game from a different franchise, and their statement that ME:Next will be "massive". My statement about stealth gameplay inclusion is based on two attempts of its implementation in ME universe (one being the latest and the most successful). So, yeah, talk about straw man arguments.

 

Now that's just hilarious Let me guess, you're Aaron Flynn in disguise? Or at least someone who works on ME:Next? If not, sorry, but your statements carry absolutely no weight for me.

Yep. I'm entirely aware you could technically choose not to take companions. Having the choice not to take them doesn't automatically mean the game is a solo experience, however. It's still very much a party-based game, whether you want to recognize it or not. Continuing to argue with you about this is silly. Accept the truth or don't. It's on you.

 

Citadel is a DLC. It's an opportunity for BioWare to change up the pace and tell a different story. It is in no way indicative what they will likely do in the future. Take the car chase scene in Lair of the Shadow Broker, for example. It's merely a new mechanic to build incentive and make the DLC stand out and offer something new. It never became anything more than that and certainly Mass Effect did not become an air speeder simulator as a result.

 

The base games are the best source of material and understanding for where the franchise is likely going. There are very few solo elements present throughout the Mass Effect Trilogy. This is an undisputed fact, regardless of whether you like it or not. A more open world game would be conducive to "unlocking different pathways." Not BioWare's current tunnel shooter on rails that Mass Effect has been. You already have a diversion feature. It's called decoy as well as your companions. A silencer is possible, but that's far from being a stealth experience.

 

I've already said before that the next generation of BioWare games is going to be bigger and more ambitious. One of the elements BioWare is tackling is more open world spaces. This is happening across their franchises, and will likely have a much larger impact in Mass Effect because of the Mako and what exploration means to the franchise.

 

Your examples are far from "stealth mechanics." A silencer, having different routes in a mission, and diversions are far from any stealth experience. Stealth would revolve around silent takedowns, non-lethal weapons, using items in the environment to mislead and attract attention of enemies, etc. What you are asking for is far from stealth, so I'm not really sure what you want. I'm not even sure you know what you want.

 

His name is "Aaryn Flynn," and I've merely been a longtime BioWare fan who has enough sense to recognize how their games have evolved. With each new generation BioWare focuses on certain elements to innovate on. In the KotOR era, they were really pushing morality, diverging paths, and compelling plot twists. The Mass Effect era brought us the conversation wheel, interrupts, professional cut scenes, a voiced protagonist, and even MP. Dragon Age brought us tactical strategy as well as real time combat, with diversity in romance options, and standalone games focusing on different heroes.

 

The DAI/NME era is focusing on open world, larger focus on players having control over organizations, mounts/vehicles, crafting overhaul, more MP, more in-depth romance and relationships, and much more customizable and player-driven protagonists. This is only the beginning, and BioWare always focuses and tweaks to refine their craft. BioWare's motivations are plain and clear. If you are unable to see them, you will understand soon enough when NME is released.

[Revan Reborn]

But if a series never evolves it is sure to eventually lose it's fan's to "been there done that" mentallity no matter how much you polish and upgrade the experience. Take SC to me by SC:DA it was just that. Then in SCC they tried agro-stealth but that was worse but in SCB they found a pretty good ballance. The point being that ME needs to try new things and if they work great keep it, if they fail get rid of it, or if fans think it wasn' good but showed promise improve on it.

I agree, going back to the point that innovation and evolution should happen in a way that makes sense. You need a foundation before you do something entirely new. It needs to be ambitious, yet familiar. Stealth has never been part of the ME experience in the way that you want it. Again, it has been used as a tool to increase damage and to temporarily lose enemy aggro. In order for your stealth to be practical, there would need to be an entire overhaul of the combat system, affecting everything.

 

We don't know anything about the next Mass Effect's combat at this point, but I would be shocked if it chances that significantly. It's almost certainly the tactical party-based, third person shooter will be intact. The cover system as well with the ability to navigate the environment with relative ease. We'll see what BioWare comes up with, but I'm just suggesting you should have reasonable expectations is all. I'm likely the biggest proponent of evolution and change on this forum. Many BioWare fans seem to be averse to change and dream of the glory days of BG2 or ME1.

 

I like change. I like that BioWare is going open world. I like that crafting was overhauled. I also like that we are having a much more interactive role in these organizations and the power to accomplish tasks more so than we ever have. I can't wait to see what happens in the next Mass Effect. I just wouldn't expect BioWare to completely turn the experience on its head and make something entirely new that isn't remotely familiar. There are always going to be two things in a BioWare game that are more or less always going to be constant cores. The BioWare storytelling and the party-based combat. I don't ever see that changing.

[Vazgen]

Ah, yes, twisting my posts again. Good. Let me quote

Spoiler

Actually, on the contrary BioWare games do have be you + two squad mates killing hordes of enemies. That has been the BioWare gameplay formula since Baldur's Gate. That is what BioWare is known for.

Except in Dragon Age Origins you can ditch those two squadmates and go solo.

I merely made a point that you are talking about two different franchises that approach party-based combat differently. You gave me an example of a five minute experience out of the 80+ hours of party-based gameplay in DAO.

If you didn't know, there is an option not to take any squadmate when picking the party for missions in DA:O. That's what I referred to.

Yep. I'm entirely aware you could technically choose not to take companions. Having the choice not to take them doesn't automatically mean the game is a solo experience, however.

Now show me where did I say that the game is a solo experience.

You are now going to dismiss the DLCs as no indicators of what the next game might have? Liara's face and outfit from LotSB became defaults in ME3, just saying.
Feel free to do so, dismiss what you find not fitting to your view of what Bioware does when making games. Statements like this make your statement about the games' evolution knowledge questionable.

Once again, to quote myself

Spoiler

Mass Effect has the potential to put a lot more emphasis on stealth. Manipulating environment to create alternate pathways and distractions should be possible with both biotic and tech classes (the latter featuring more refined and "stealthy" distractions). The cloak should have some limiting factors (like the one in Crysis - running drains energy faster) and the sound you make should play a much larger role.
We should have the ability to focus more on stealth at the expense of combat durability including armor mods and character abilities.

circling past the enemies or at least getting your team in a more tactical position and surround the enemy - these are the activities that we should be able to do in ME:Next


Stealth does not have to be a Thief-like experience, it can rather focus on avoiding the enemy by unlocking different pathways, creating diversions (like on Virmire) and suppressed weapons allowing us to take out lone targets silently.


Once again, I'm not talking about making Mass Effect a Thief game in space. What I'm saying is entirely optional character evolution that can result in a playstyle different from "shoot everything that moves".

I think I was pretty clear what I was talking about. You saw the name Thief and came up with

Spoiler

I'm all for BioWare changing how combat works, but I wouldn't expect this to become Dishonored, Thief, or Batman.

You keep saying you don't want Thief or Dishonored, yet you then contradict yourself by asking for features that are only in those games.

So having a silencer does not imply stealth? Yeah, OK.
Stealth does not equal "silent takedowns, non-lethal weapons, using items in the environment to mislead and attract attention of enemies, etc." Stealth is about getting from point A to point B without alerting enemies to your presence. What you listed are just tools that can help with that. What I listed, too, though diversions, silencer and different pathways don't scream "stealth" unlike silent takedowns and non-lethal weapons and thus are much easier to implement without putting much emphasis on stealth. Like I said

entirely optional character evolution that can result in a playstyle different from "shoot everything that moves".

Edit: Oh, and sorry for that typo. It's 4AM here so it kinda screws with my writing

[Revan Reborn]

Ah, yes, twisting my posts again. Good. Let me quote

Spoiler

Now show me where did I say that the game is a solo experience.

You are now going to dismiss the DLCs as no indicators of what the next game might have? Liara's face and outfit from LotSB became defaults in ME3, just saying.
Feel free to do so, dismiss what you find not fitting to your view of what Bioware does when making games. Statements like this make your statement about the games' evolution knowledge questionable.

Once again, to quote myself

Spoiler

I think I was pretty clear what I was talking about. You saw the name Thief and came up with

Spoiler

So having a silencer does not imply stealth? Yeah, OK.
Stealth does not equal "silent takedowns, non-lethal weapons, using items in the environment to mislead and attract attention of enemies, etc." Stealth is about getting from point A to point B without alerting enemies to your presence. What you listed are just tools that can help with that. What I listed, too, though diversions, silencer and different pathways don't scream "stealth" unlike silent takedowns and non-lethal weapons and thus are much easier to implement without putting much emphasis on stealth. Like I said
Edit: Oh, and sorry for that typo. It's 4AM here so it kinda screws with my writing

This all goes back to the point that companions prevent stealth from being practical in a BioWare game. You then went on a tirade about dozens of illusory examples of "solo experiences" in a BioWare game that were either five minutes long or weren't gameplay-related at all. Maybe you should take a step back and figure out what you are trying to say?

 

Okay? I am talking about gameplay features and you are talking about visual aesthetics... Really? You clearly are very desperate to have a stealth mechanic implemented in the game. That's quite obvious by your hostile tone as well as your signature. I'm not against the idea of stealth personally, I just believe it's highly unlikely. As a result of not agreeing with you, all of the sudden I'm the "bad guy" and everything I have said prior is in question? You are an interesting one.

 

Here's the problem. You are misusing the term "stealth." What you want is something more along the lines of an predator-type character, similar to Batman. You want a variety of tools and means to navigate an area, achieve silent take downs, and create decoys or explosions to throw an enemy off your trail. That is something entirely different. Again, Mass Effect is a tactical party-based, third person shooter, so I'm not really sure if the kind of experience you want is something that would logically happen. I suppose anything is possible, but such an experience has never been hinted or supported. That would require a lot of work, as you would have to completely rebuild environments, rebuild AI behavior, create more environmental hazards as well as other tools. That's an entirely different game already, which is why I'm skeptical it will happen. What your asking for is like turning Halo into Assassin's Creed. That's a large leap.

 

A silencer is a tool. It doesn't have to necessarily relate to stealth at all. Silencers are rather common place in most shooters, of which aren't stealth experiences. I understand what you want, and again I will just be shocked if it happens. For your kind of experience to be plausible, it generally already has to have a foundation in the game. BioWare can't do everything, and while we may want them to do as much as possible, they have to make an experience that is ultimately true to Mass Effect. Being Batman or Altair has never been the Mass Effect experience. You are generally either using weapons, tech, or biotics. Now certainly there are elements of "stealth," but not enough to lead to what you ultimately want.

 

That would require a significant amount of development alone, and until we actually see combat in action, I just don't believe the game will evolve in that direction. Shepard wasn't a ninja. Neither will the new protagonist based on current reports. BioWare will do what they can, but again this is ultimately a BioWare game. Maybe you'll have something more to your liking in MP assuming it's made by a different studio again? Still doubtful, but it most certainly will more than likely not happen in the main game.

[StealthGamer92]

Okay? I am talking about gameplay features and you are talking about visual aesthetics... Really? You clearly are very desperate to have a stealth mechanic implemented in the game. That's quite obvious by your hostile tone as well as your signature. I'm not against the idea of stealth personally, I just believe it's highly unlikely. As a result of not agreeing with you, all of the sudden I'm the "bad guy" and everything I have said prior is in question? You are an interesting one.

 
 
If this was directed at me I wasn't being hostile, I just have the inability to show any emotion hostile or otherwise in text. I have been rather enjoying the back and forth and realized early on this is just something we will have to agree to disagre on. I think some sort of stealth or predator gameplay could be pulled off and you believe otherwise.
 
Also it StealthGamer92(to match my xbl gamertag Stealth Gamer92) because SniperFan92 was taken on XBL. I really like Sniper Elite. Thats another reason I always mak Infiltrator's.

[Revan Reborn]

 
 
If this was directed at me I wasn't being hostile, I just have the inability to show any emotion hostile or otherwise in text. I have been rather enjoying the back and forth and realized early on this is just something we will have to agree to disagre on. I think some sort of stealth or predator gameplay could be pulled off and you believe otherwise.
 
Also it StealthGamer92(to match my xbl gamertag Stealth Gamer92) because SniperFan92 was taken on XBL. I really like Sniper Elite. Thats another reason I always mak Infiltrator's.

Not at all. It was directed at Vazgen who apparently was becoming quite defensive due to my comments.

 

I'm just trying to wrap my head around the logistical challenges would entail such a radical change in gameplay philosophy. Keep in mind that the soldier/biotic/tech gameplay would still need to be intact. BioWare couldn't just force everybody into this Batman-type experience, or it would turn many fans off. That's why I'm somewhat skeptical, as the gameplay needs to be as well-rounded as possible, making specializing difficult. The core pillars are tactics, party-based, and third person shooter mechanics. I just don't really see how BioWare can make the experience you really want without affecting the other disciplines.

[Vazgen]

This all goes back to the point that companions prevent stealth from being practical in a BioWare game. You then went on a tirade about dozens of illusory examples of "solo experiences" in a BioWare game that were either five minutes long or weren't gameplay-related at all. Maybe you should take a step back and figure out what you are trying to say?

Okay? I am talking about gameplay features and you are talking about visual aesthetics... Really? You clearly are very desperate to have a stealth mechanic implemented in the game. That's quite obvious by your hostile tone as well as your signature. I'm not against the idea of stealth personally, I just believe it's highly unlikely. As a result of not agreeing with you, all of the sudden I'm the "bad guy" and everything I have said prior is in question? You are an interesting one.

Here's the problem. You are misusing the term "stealth." What you want is something more along the lines of an predator-type character, similar to Batman. You want a variety of tools and means to navigate an area, achieve silent take downs, and create decoys or explosions to throw an enemy off your trail. That is something entirely different. Again, Mass Effect is a tactical party-based, third person shooter, so I'm not really sure if the kind of experience you want is something that would logically happen. I suppose anything is possible, but such an experience has never been hinted or supported. That would require a lot of work, as you would have to completely rebuild environments, rebuild AI behavior, create more environmental hazards as well as other tools. That's an entirely different game already, which is why I'm skeptical it will happen. What your asking for is like turning Halo into Assassin's Creed. That's a large leap.

A silencer is a tool. It doesn't have to necessarily relate to stealth at all. Silencers are rather common place in most shooters, of which aren't stealth experiences. I understand what you want, and again I will just be shocked if it happens. For your kind of experience to be plausible, it generally already has to have a foundation in the game. BioWare can't do everything, and while we may want them to do as much as possible, they have to make an experience that is ultimately true to Mass Effect. Being Batman or Altair has never been the Mass Effect experience. You are generally either using weapons, tech, or biotics. Now certainly there are elements of "stealth," but not enough to lead to what you ultimately want.

That would require a significant amount of development alone, and until we actually see combat in action, I just don't believe the game will evolve in that direction. Shepard wasn't a ninja. Neither will the new protagonist based on current reports. BioWare will do what they can, but again this is ultimately a BioWare game. Maybe you'll have something more to your liking in MP assuming it's made by a different studio again? Still doubtful, but it most certainly will more than likely not happen in the main game.

First, having companions does not make stealth ineffective and how you got that from my posts is beyond me (take Ghost Recon:Future Soldier, stealth sequences in Spec Ops:The Line, Conflict:Vietnam and Desert Storm). Second, all that solo experience discussion comes from your post that in all Bioware games it's you with two squadmates killing hordes of enemies. I then gave you examples of that not having to be the case one of which you dismissed as belonging to a different franchise and another as being DLC. I never argued that ME:Next should be a solo game, rather that going solo is not unheard of in at least three Bioware games two of which belong to ME franchise.

Liara's face is an example of why DLCs can't be dismissed when talking about next game. Whether it's visuals or gameplay mechanics (like her powers) DLCs feature content in ME universe that fans like and it gets in the next game. Noticed the party in DA:I? Now tell me it wasn't influenced by Citadel DLC. I'm, for example, pretty sure that we'll get class-specific interrupts and environmental hazards in ME:Next - tested in Omega DLC and multiplayer.

You tell me that I'm misusing the term "stealth" and then proceed to tell that I want something that I never said. Environments are being worked on unless you assume that all the levels are built already. Explosions and decoys to throw the enemy of my trail is not something I want, creating those to have the enemies investigate and clear a path is different. It can even be a scripted event for all its worth.

Silencer is a tool meant for (duh) taking out targets silently. Having it in the game does not make it a stealth game, as you said, but it does give you the opportunity to kill targets without others noticing.

Do I need to quote myself again? Where did you get that I want Batman or Altair experience in Mass Effect?

I may come out as hostile because you keep skipping over my posts, twist their meaning and constantly claim that Bioware won't do it with the ultimate authority you don't have. You're entitled to your opinion but don't try to force it on the others.

[Revan Reborn]

First, having companions does not make stealth ineffective and how you got that from my posts is beyond me (take Ghost Recon:Future Soldier, stealth sequences in Spec Ops:The Line, Conflict:Vietnam and Desert Storm). Second, all that solo experience discussion comes from your post that in all Bioware games it's you with two squadmates killing hordes of enemies. I then gave you examples of that not having to be the case one of which you dismissed as belonging to a different franchise and another as being DLC. I never argued that ME:Next should be a solo game, rather that going solo is not unheard of in at least three Bioware games two of which belong to ME franchise.

Liara's face is an example of why DLCs can't be dismissed when talking about next game. Whether it's visuals or gameplay mechanics (like her powers) DLCs feature content in ME universe that fans like and it gets in the next game. Noticed the party in DA:I? Now tell me it wasn't influenced by Citadel DLC. I'm, for example, pretty sure that we'll get class-specific interrupts and environmental hazards in ME:Next - tested in Omega DLC and multiplayer.

You tell me that I'm misusing the term "stealth" and then proceed to tell that I want something that I never said. Environments are being worked on unless you assume that all the levels are built already. Explosions and decoys to throw the enemy of my trail is not something I want, creating those to have the enemies investigate and clear a path is different. It can even be a scripted event for all its worth.

Silencer is a tool meant for (duh) taking out targets silently. Having it in the game does not make it a stealth game, as you said, but it does give you the opportunity to kill targets without others noticing.

Do I need to quote myself again? Where did you get that I want Batman or Altair experience in Mass Effect?

I may come out as hostile because you keep skipping over my posts, twist their meaning and constantly claim that Bioware won't do it with the ultimate authority you don't have. You're entitled to your opinion but don't try to force it on the others.

Ghost Recon has always been a tactical, stealth game. Many of the Tom Clancy titles, most notable Splinter Cell, thrive off that particular gameplay experience. BioWare never has with any of their games. You gave me an example of a five minute event out of 80+ hours of content and a add-on providing a few hours of content versus 150+ hours of content from the base games. You are using rare and special circumstances to somehow justify that the likelihood of a solo mechanic is feasible for the base game. This is just not true. As I said before, going all the way back to Baldur's Gate, BioWare games are party-based. Yes, there are occasions when you might be "alone," but they are few and far between and have never been the entire experience of any BioWare game. If the solo experience was really that crucial to BioWare, do you really think they would waste the money and resources on voice actors for companions?

 

"Liara's face is an example of why DLCs can't be dismissed when talking about next game." I don't know about you, but that statement alone sounds absolutely ridiculous. You are really going to make the argument that because of using a different model for Liara, that then supports the idea that a stealth mechanic, that you are asking for, that has never been in ME, or any of the DLC, will just miraculously appear in NME? That doesn't make any sense at all.

 

I wouldn't assume anything. Again, this isn't "Mass Effect 4," and BioWare has made this point clear quite a few times. You should not expect everything from the previous games to make an appearance in the next Mass Effect, especially if it was a minor or obscure feature. It is very likely that many aspects from previous games will be missing entirely as NME goes new directions. For one, NME is being developed by Montreal and not Edmonton, who made the Citadel DLC with your "stealth" mechanic. Secondly, all Montreal has talked about is exploration, Mako, and the main protagonist having something to do with N7, meaning he/she is likely military and a soldier.

 

World building and environments happen early in development. I wouldn't be surprised if most, if not all of the environments of the next Mass Effect are complete at this point. Later stages of development focus on voice acting, main story and side quest content, soundtrack, etc. Again, you are asking for an overhaul of the AI mechanics in directions no BioWare game has ever gone. I see this being very unlikely as you are looking for a predator system similar to Batman, Skyrim, Dishonored, etc.

 

The silencer is the only practical feature you have mentioned that I could see being in the next Mass Effect. BioWare doesn't have to completely revamp their entire combat system to implement it, as they would with what you are asking for. I don't believe you understand how much work would have to go in to the game to get what you want to be a reality.

 

You want enemies to investigate, you want different paths in order to do silent takedowns, you want to remain hidden and completely avoid or remove every enemy without being detected. What you want is Batman: Arkham/Assassin's Creed.

 

I'm not forcing anything on you. On the contrary, it could possibly happen. I'm just merely saying it's very unlikely given how much it would impact the entire experience. Mass Effect, again, is a tactical party-based, third person shooter. Using cover and killing enemies directly is the experience and always has been for BioWare. The experience you want has no precedent nor foundation in any of the games. You use poor examples or minor interactions as being evidence, but they far from make any assertion of what you are hoping will be a large feature in the next Mass Effect.

 

I understand you want a stealth experience. You are clearly quite biased towards having it and that is apparent by your words as well as your signature. It's also why you are hostile towards anyone with a differing opinion. I get it. I'm just trying to be realistic and explain to you that Mass Effect has never been the game you want it to be. I wouldn't put the unreasonable expectation on BioWare to make that stealth experience. You'll only let yourself down.

[StealthGamer92]

Now that I'm thinking about it I also want NME to fix sniper rifles they just felt like maksman rifles in ME2&3. In ME1 the leveling and investing int SR tree was like you were training and improving with that weapon. The PC started with exagerated scope swaying but with "practice" you could eventualy fire two consecutive shots straight on target. I may be in the minority but I personaly but to me ME1 skill trees were perfect and everything after felt like downgrades.

 

I also belive Tech abilties were also at there best in ME1, even if they were a little over powered with a good omni-tool, in that the Tech mines were used by the Enginier/infiltrator/Sentinel and mini-factured by the operatives omnitool. And it was so cool reading how diferent tech ability points invested caused effects like X- extra shield capaciy, -X power cooldown, or +X tech explosion radius/damage etc. It felt like my PC was knowledgable about electronics and tweaking his gear to perform better for his needs.

[Revan Reborn]

Now that I'm thinking about it I also want NME to fix sniper rifles they just felt like maksman rifles in ME2&3. In ME1 the leveling and investing int SR tree was like you were training and improving with that weapon. The PC started with exagerated scope swaying but with "practice" you could eventualy fire two consecutive shots straight on target. I may be in the minority but I personaly but to me ME1 skill trees were perfect and everything after felt like downgrades.

 

I also belive Tech abilties were also at there best in ME1, even if they were a little over powered with a good omni-tool, in that the Tech mines were used by the Enginier/infiltrator/Sentinel and mini-factured by the operatives omnitool. And it was so cool reading how diferent tech ability points invested caused effects like X- extra shield capaciy, -X power cooldown, or +X tech explosion radius/damage etc. It felt like my PC was knowledgable about electronics and tweaking his gear to perform better for his needs.

Let me phrase it this way... Shepard was a renown N7 Operative. He was the first Human Spectre. Because of the way progression worked in ME1, he couldn't even hold a sniper steady until after Virmire... How is that in anyway remotely realistic or practical from a storytelling standpoint? Humanity's finest has to slot points in order to hold and use weapons properly. That might make sense for a novice and a recruit, but not a war hero. That's largely why BioWare changed the progression, because it was bad from a storytelling standpoint and from a third person shooter perspective.

 

I felt tech abilities were overall uninspiring. Especially with grenades, that was a horrible system. Not having any thermal clips? Incredibly broken and overpowered. The shooting mechanics themselves were rough, to say the least. Insanity wasn't challenging, enemies were just OP because they had a lot of health and took forever to kill... I loved the story in ME1 and it was a great introduction game, but the gameplay was borderline mediocre to bad in my opinion. Yes, ME2 "downgraded" in a sense, but really more so they streamlined systems and made the combat actually fun, while basing the progression around skills and abilities instead of whether you can hold a scope straight.