31 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

Having actually finished a Dalish playthrough of Origins, I've come to the realization that DA2's handling of that origin is either a huge retcon or makes no sense.

 

The center of most of the ridiculousness is Ashalle, who appears in the epilogue to congratulate the PC, and was stated by Mary Kirby to be in the Hinterlands managing the Dalish boon in DA2, which is why she doesn't appear in that game. However, this raises far more questions than it answers.

 

Flemeth's dialogue at the beginning of 2 makes it clear that the Dalish went north to Kirkwall immediately after the Dalish origin was finished; they're living there by the time that Lothering is destroyed. Additionally, dialogue with the clan in DA2 strongly implies that Mahariel has been out of contact with them ever since the origin, with Merrill only knowing about the fall of the archdemon, and perhaps not even being wholly sure whether Mahariel is dead or alive. Which raises two major issues: why did Mahariel not ever contact them, and when did Ashalle turn up in Ferelden? The odds of her staying behind seem highly unlikely, as Mahariel never gets a chance to meet up with her during the game, but if she went with the clan to Kirkwall and then came back to Ferelden, when and why? It doesn't seem likely that it involved news of Mahariel's doings, as the rest of the clan shows no sign of having ever received any, so the whole thing is a mystery.

 

On top of that, why is Ashalle out of contact with her clan after settling down in Ferelden? Merrill at least understands the concept of letters, as she talks about them to Isabela, so it seems improbable that mail just isn't a thing with them, and the clan doesn't move for several years, so it hardly seems impossible to give them an update. And while it's just barely plausible that Mahariel might have super-secret Grey Warden reasons for not talking to her clan (Anders mentions that "the Hero of Ferelden values privacy rather highly"), the odds of Ashalle having similar ones strike me as nigh-impossible.

 

So yes, ultimately, the entire Dalish origin timeline is a mess, and I really hope that, in DAI, it'll be addressed to some extent along with the fate of the Dalish Hinterlands.

[Heimdall]

Well, Ashalle, being Mahariel's adoptive parent, may have simply left the clan hoping to find Mahariel before the Blight swallowed up Ferelden.

As for why they never contact the clan, they may simply not know where they are.

[thats1evildude]

I just think the Dalish Warden doesn't view him or herself as part of the clan anymore.

[Chari]

I doubt the Bioware even cares
They retconned Merrill into a completely different character, retconned the timeline, for some reason put the clan near Kirkwall while it could easily be replaced with a new one and in the latest works made the dalish look like ignorant jerks
So, the answer is probably no

[sandalisthemaker]

Was it ever addressed how the Sabrae physically got to Kirkwall?  Did they walk around the sea or did they sail across? With all of their Halla in tow? And their land ships, which aren't actually ships used to sail across water? 

[Reznore57]

Was it ever addressed how the Sabrae physically got to Kirkwall?  Did they walk around the sea or did they sail across? With all of their Halla in tow? And their land ships, which aren't actually ships used to sail across water? 

 

They took a boat.

Merrill talks about it during some banters.

[Roamingmachine]

They took a boat.
Merrill talks about it during some banters.

Yeah. Though it boggles the mind what kind of a captain would take an entire clan of Dale elves onboard, unless the captain was a city elf. And how exactly did the clan pay for it? O_o

[sandalisthemaker]

^^Okay thanks. I never recalled her saying that.

[Xilizhra]

I just think the Dalish Warden doesn't view him or herself as part of the clan anymore.

That seems like a rather big roleplaying decision to remove from the player.

 

 

Well, Ashalle, being Mahariel's adoptive parent, may have simply left the clan hoping to find Mahariel before the Blight swallowed up Ferelden.

As for why they never contact the clan, they may simply not know where they are.

But if Ashalle went with them and then came back, she'd know where the clan was.

[Icy Magebane]

Yeah. Though it boggles the mind what kind of a captain would take an entire clan of Dale elves onboard, unless the captain was a city elf. And how exactly did the clan pay for it? O_o

Now that you mention it, that does seem kind of sketchy...

[Dr. wonderful]

Yeah. Though it boggles the mind what kind of a captain would take an entire clan of Dale elves onboard, unless the captain was a city elf. And how exactly did the clan pay for it? O_o

More sexual favors than they care to remember. 

 

Joking aside, maybe they actually did pay for it. With actual money. 

[Sir George Parr]

As its Varric telling the story, all it takes is a bit of hand waving by virtue of him getting his facts wrong or embellishing the story. To make all those continuity problems disappear. Problem resolved. 

[Heimdall]

*Double Post* 

[Heimdall]

That seems like a rather big roleplaying decision to remove from the player.

 

 

But if Ashalle went with them and then came back, she'd know where the clan was.

Maybe she left their company before they left Ferelden and doesn't know precisely where in the Free Marches they ended up.  Ferelden's a reasonably large place, and chaotic during the Blight, its not strange that she failed to find Mahariel (Who would have been traveling fairly under the radar until late in the game) until he/she turned up leading an army.

That seems like a rather big roleplaying decision to remove from the player.

 

 

But if Ashalle went with them and then came back, she'd know where the clan was.

[Xilizhra]

 

Maybe she left their company before they left Ferelden and doesn't know precisely where in the Free Marches they ended up.  Ferelden's a reasonably large place, and chaotic during the Blight, its not strange that she failed to find Mahariel (Who would have been traveling fairly under the radar until late in the game) until he/she turned up leading an army.

Why not wait in Denerim, though, especially after searching for a while and turning up nothing? Or why not go to Zathrian's clan?

[Icy Magebane]

As its Varric telling the story, all it takes is a bit of hand waving by virtue of him getting his facts wrong or embellishing the story. To make all those continuity problems disappear. Problem resolved. 

I don't see that as a good excuse for writing a sloppy, inconsistent story... should we just assume that none of it was true and wait for them to release a guide book that tells us what actually happened?  I would hope that the writers came up with a logical timeline, even if they chose to hide it behind "Varric is unreliable."

[Heimdall]

Why not wait in Denerim, though, especially after searching for a while and turning up nothing? Or why not go to Zathrian's clan?

Well, what reason has she to think Mahariel will turn up in either of those places especially?  Maybe she was tracking leads the whole time.  Perhaps she was a step behind Mahariel the whole way 

 

More seriously, she may have stopped to rest elsewhere, perhaps in Amaranthine, contemplating leaving in search of the rest of the clan through the port.  Maybe she didn't know about Zathrian's clan or just left once she found out about their werewolf troubles (It's not like she would have known about the Warden's plans to assemble an army and anticipated Mahariel would visit).

[Xilizhra]

Well, what reason has she to think Mahariel will turn up in either of those places especially?  Maybe she was tracking leads the whole time.  Perhaps she was a step behind Mahariel the whole way 

 

More seriously, she may have stopped to rest elsewhere, perhaps in Amaranthine, contemplating leaving in search of the rest of the clan through the port.  Maybe she didn't know about Zathrian's clan or just left once she found out about their werewolf troubles (It's not like she would have known about the Warden's plans to assemble an army and anticipated Mahariel would visit).

Then why did she say anything about the rest of the clan being unable to come, but with Marethari apparently being so proud of Mahariel, if she'd been out of contact with the clan for that long?

[Heimdall]

Then why did she say anything about the rest of the clan being unable to come, but with Marethari apparently being so proud of Mahariel, if she'd been out of contact with the clan for that long?

Good point, I don't have an answer for that.

[jlb524]

The center of most of the ridiculousness is Ashalle, who appears in the epilogue to congratulate the PC, and was stated by Mary Kirby to be in the Hinterlands managing the Dalish boon in DA2, which is why she doesn't appear in that game. However, this raises far more questions than it answers.

 

Flemeth's dialogue at the beginning of 2 makes it clear that the Dalish went north to Kirkwall immediately after the Dalish origin was finished; they're living there by the time that Lothering is destroyed. Additionally, dialogue with the clan in DA2 strongly implies that Mahariel has been out of contact with them ever since the origin, with Merrill only knowing about the fall of the archdemon, and perhaps not even being wholly sure whether Mahariel is dead or alive. Which raises two major issues: why did Mahariel not ever contact them, and when did Ashalle turn up in Ferelden? The odds of her staying behind seem highly unlikely, as Mahariel never gets a chance to meet up with her during the game, but if she went with the clan to Kirkwall and then came back to Ferelden, when and why? It doesn't seem likely that it involved news of Mahariel's doings, as the rest of the clan shows no sign of having ever received any, so the whole thing is a mystery.

 

From the that epilogue dialog with Ashalle, I always got the impression that the Sabrae clan had never left Ferelden and weren't very far from Denerim but, as Ashalle says, they were 'too afraid to come into such a great city' so Ashalle came to see the Warden and give her/him the well wishes of the clan.

 

It's just a retcon I believe.

[Dean_the_Young]

Yeah. Though it boggles the mind what kind of a captain would take an entire clan of Dale elves onboard, unless the captain was a city elf. And how exactly did the clan pay for it? O_o

 

Elven crafted goods, relics, sexual favors, loot stripped from the bodies of those they killed*. You'd be surprised what you can buy with enough extra pairs of pants.

 

*Darkspawn, I mean.

[TK514]

Simple.  Retcon.  This new sequence suited their idea of where they wanted the elves to go better than the old one.  Hardly the first thing they have retconned or handwaved since DA:O was released.  Certainly won't be the last.

[LobselVith8]

So yes, ultimately, the entire Dalish origin timeline is a mess, and I really hope that, in DAI, it'll be addressed to some extent along with the fate of the Dalish Hinterlands.

 

Given what Kirby said, Ashalle shouldn't be gone in the event that the Warden wasn't Dalish, but she is, despite the fact that the Hinterlands are only gifted to the Dalish in the event that the Hero of Ferelden is from the Sabrae Clan. Also, the Dalish Warden can explicitly say that she will return to the clan, so the idea that she never did doesn't really make sense.

 

Considering that Marethari is the one who attends the funeral of the Hero of Ferelden in the event of the Warden's sacrifice to end the Fifth Blight (and is given the Hinterlands personally by the new ruler of Ferelden) I think it's simply another recton (and a mess if I'm being brutally honest).

[Steelcan]

Wasn't the fate of the Dalish Hinterlands discussed by Alistair in DA2?