772 réponses à ce sujet

[Medhia_Nox]

I found Asunder to be absolutely littered in reasons why the Templars have some very valid points - and why Lambert totally didn't seem as psychotic as the boards present him. 

[TheKomandorShepard]

I found Asunder to be absolutely littered in reasons why the Templars have some very valid points - and why Lambert totally didn't seem as psychotic as the boards present him. 

He wasn't in fact lambert was only 1 who would succeed in stopping war if not divine and leliana.He was like meredith he had good reasons and was right but he wasn't insane like she was.I hope they won't kill him off. 

[Aimi]

However, I'm not talking about the templars primarily because that war is much simpler than negotiations with the Chantry would be: "These people are trying to kill/imprison us, and we have to fight back while they continue to do so." There's not a whole lot else to say.

"I object to the word 'operations'. We'll just blow a hole in the middle. The rest will follow of its own accord."
-General der Infanterie Erich Ludendorff, shortly before the failure of the German western offensives of 1918

[Xilizhra]

"I object to the word 'operations'. We'll just blow a hole in the middle. The rest will follow of its own accord."
-General der Infanterie Erich Ludendorff, shortly before the failure of the German western offensives of 1918

Clarification: there's a great deal to say about military strategy and such, but we have no context for anything and no actual material yet to discuss.

[Iakus]

I found Asunder to be absolutely littered in reasons why the Templars have some very valid points - and why Lambert totally didn't seem as psychotic as the boards present him. 

 

He was, however, extremely paranoid.  And it was a mage who played on that paranoia that really kicked off the war.

[Medhia_Nox]

@TheKomandorShepard:  I agree, I was really irritated by his last scene. 

 

What I can't stand about the DA mages - is that they excuse everything, EVERYTHING, with some sort of corrupt form of childlike wonder.

 

"Oh, that thing just killed a dozen people - but it's scared and new to the world.  Let's hug it!"

"Oh, that experiment just turned thousands into donkeys - but, discovery!!  Yay!"

 

They talk a good game about "suffering" - but couldn't care less who suffers because of magic.  Frighteningly, almost universal - Wynne has been the only exception I've seen so far.

 

@Iakus:  Definitely not saying I think Lambert is a swell guy.  Just saying I found him a far more complex and interesting character than a huge swath of the mages (and as a person who loves mages as a rule, I do enjoy the switch).

[Xilizhra]

I found Asunder to be absolutely littered in reasons why the Templars have some very valid points - and why Lambert totally didn't seem as psychotic as the boards present him. 

I wouldn't call him psychotic. A bigoted, brutal, murderous, treacherous fiend, yes, but a mentally sound one.

[Iakus]

I wouldn't call him psychotic. A bigoted, brutal, murderous, treacherous fiend, yes, but a mentally sound one.

The product of a magocracy.  Don't forget that

[Sir DeLoria]

I found Asunder to be absolutely littered in reasons why the Templars have some very valid points - and why Lambert totally didn't seem as psychotic as the boards present him.

Agreed and he is partially justified in his paranoia.

[Xilizhra]

The product of a magocracy.  Don't forget that

So he can compare himself to Huon? An honor indeed.

[Lulupab]

@TheKomandorShepard:  I agree, I was really irritated by his last scene. 

 

What I can't stand about the DA mages - is that they excuse everything, EVERYTHING, with some sort of corrupt form of childlike wonder.

 

"Oh, that thing just killed a dozen people - but it's scared and new to the world.  Let's hug it!"

"Oh, that experiment just turned thousands into donkeys - but, discovery!!  Yay!"

 

They talk a good game about "suffering" - but couldn't care less who suffers because of magic.  Frighteningly, almost universal - Wynne has been the only exception I've seen so far.

 

@Iakus:  Definitely not saying I think Lambert is a swell guy.  Just saying I found him a far more complex and interesting character than a huge swath of the mages (and as a person who loves mages as a rule, I do enjoy the switch).

 

Thinking Lambert is normal and justifying his actions whilst generalizing the mages and Lambert's opposition Fiona, is very biased.

 

Templars are not saints either they have been wrong many times and almost never anyone in their ranks questioned it. They are quite the sheep that follow any order as long as they are fed. I'm wondering what'll happen now that they are lose without shepherd and free food.

[TheKomandorShepard]

He was, however, extremely paranoid.  And it was a mage who played on that paranoia that really kicked off the war.

You need to be paranoid in order to deal with mages.Even characters that were strongly sympathetic to the mages started to be paranoid about them like cullen and it seems leliana in dai.If you aren't paranoid you end like Thrask who trusted mages.

 

 

@TheKomandorShepard:  I agree, I was really irritated by his last scene. 

 

What I can't stand about the DA mages - is that they excuse everything, EVERYTHING, with some sort of corrupt form of childlike wonder.

 

"Oh, that thing just killed a dozen people - but it's scared and new to the world.  Let's hug it!"

"Oh, that experiment just turned thousands into donkeys - but, discovery!!  Yay!"

 

They talk a good game about "suffering" - but couldn't care less who suffers because of magic.  Frighteningly, almost universal - Wynne has been the only exception I've seen so far.

 

@Iakus:  Definitely not saying I think Lambert is a swell guy.  Just saying I found him a far more complex and interesting character than a huge swath of the mages (and as a person who loves mages as a rule, I do enjoy the switch).

Yep pretty much who i repeat often here but somehow pro-mages on this forum are even worse in excusing mages.

[Medhia_Nox]

I haven't seen one mage try to curb his/her fellows.

 

"Hey guy, maybe don't blow up all the scared/angry townsfolk."

No, even with the most moderates its:  "Let's just wipe them off the map for daring to offend us."

And now they're like:  "Why won't anyone trust us that we can police ourselves?"

[Xilizhra]

I haven't seen one mage try to curb his/her fellows.

 

"Hey guy, maybe don't blow up all the scared/angry townsfolk."

No, even with the most moderates its:  "Let's just wipe them off the map for daring to offend us."

And now they're like:  "Why won't anyone trust us that we can police ourselves?"

Um, did you miss, well, most of Broken Circle? Or Rhys not wanting Adrian to fry those idiots who tried attacking her?

[TheKomandorShepard]

Thinking Lambert is normal and justifying his actions whilst generalizing the mages and Lambert's opposition Fiona, is very biased.

 

Templars are not saints either they have been wrong many times and almost never anyone in their ranks questioned it. They are quite the sheep that follow any order as long as they are fed. I'm wondering what'll happen now that they are lose without shepherd and free food.

Templars are mostly right (see Thrask and his trust) and in the end better safe than sorry and kill off mage than deal with disaster they will cause.In fact meredith despite she was insane was right about mages despite that most peoples told her she was paranoid.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Xilizhra:  Just finished Asunder.  Rhys does ask her, but then turns to Evangeline and explains plainly:  "If they would have made us do it, we would have." 

 

Broken Circle?  Like - the Broken Circle where Uldred enslaved the Ferelden tower and forces his fellows to be worn like skin-suits by demons while Knight Commander Greagor allows a complete stranger to go in and save the day leaving dozens (if not hundreds) of mages still alive?   That broken Circle?

Where was the mage crying for temperance against mundanes?  I'm not sure.

[Xilizhra]

Thinking Lambert is normal and justifying his actions whilst generalizing the mages and Lambert's opposition Fiona, is very biased.

 

Templars are not saints either they have been wrong many times and almost never anyone in their ranks questioned it. They are quite the sheep that follow any order as long as they are fed. I'm wondering what'll happen now that they are lose without shepherd and free food.

You don't have to wonder that hard.

 

 

@Xilizhra:  Just finished Asunder.  Rhys does ask her, but then turns to Evangeline and explains plainly:  "If they would have made us do it, we would have." 

 

Broken Circle?  Like - the Broken Circle where Uldred enslaved the Ferelden tower and forces his fellows to be worn like skin-suits by demons while Knight Commander Greagor allows a complete stranger to go in and save the day leaving dozens (if not hundreds) of mages still alive?   That broken Circle?

Where was the mage crying for temperance against mundanes?  I'm not sure.

Well, yeah; the mundanes were the ones who'd have struck first in that situation. And Irving was trying to stop the pride demon from destroying the templars.

[Iakus]

 

@Iakus:  Definitely not saying I think Lambert is a swell guy.  Just saying I found him a far more complex and interesting character than a huge swath of the mages (and as a person who loves mages as a rule, I do enjoy the switch).

Oh, he's far from a saint.  And was probably too burnt out and should have been retired some time ago.  But i find that he and Adrien are more alike than either would be willing to admit.

[DarthLaxian]

They have plenty of alternatives. Hell, Asunder showed us that the Divine was willing to listen to what the mages had to say. Then, of course, the mages were quick to spit in the face of the Divine and **** all over the hand offered, but we evidently can't expect mages to learn...

 

They did not spit in anyones face - they were interrrupted when having a conclave of all the mage leaders (templars storming in) and it was a reasonable assumption that the templars were there on chantry orders (they are - well, were - the chantry's military arm after all)...after that I would not have trusted anyone who is close to the chantry again either (at least not without being 100% objective and having the inside information we as readers of the book have) and I think that is pretty reasonable (with mages having suffered under the chantry/templars for centuries (!))

 

greetings LAX

[TheKomandorShepard]

Oh, he's far from a saint.  And was probably too burnt out and should have been retired some time ago.  But i find that he and Adrien are more alike than either would be willing to admit.

You mean that guy who tried stop the war is smiliar to girl that tried start it?If something there should be more templars like lambert less like Thrask as i said guy would prevent war if not divine.

 

 

They did not spit in anyones face - they were interrrupted when having a conclave of all the mage leaders (templars storming in) and it was a reasonable assumption that the templars were there on chantry orders (they are - well, were - the chantry's military arm after all)...after that I would not have trusted anyone who is close to the chantry again either (at least not without being 100% objective and having the inside information we as readers of the book have) and I think that is pretty reasonable (with mages having suffered under the chantry/templars for centuries (!))

 

greetings LAX

 

And where is that suffering living in luxury towers that most can only dream about in thedas? In fact we have only 2 examples abuses and that was in krikwall that was Arlik and Karras not so much...

[Medhia_Nox]

Autonomy is different than Reform.

 

I support some severe reforms, but think any mage seeking autonomy is simply power hungry and should be watched the most (like Adrian). 

 

It's hilarious to me that any mage would feel beholden to the decision made at Andoral's Reach.  It even mocks itself when Adrian gains accolades that are notable Circle accolades - with no Circle.

 

As a mage, I would never have gone to begin with.  But after the decision I would have simply left.  Of course, I don't think people like Adrian would want to let me go... radicals aren't known to live by the standards they claim they're fighting for.  

[Lulupab]

Lambert did all that at the thought of mages having an autonomy lol.

[Iakus]

You mean that guy who tried stop the war is smiliar to girl that tried start it?If something there should be more templars like lambert less like Thrask as i said guy would prevent war if not divine.

 

 

 

Both are tempermental, willing to think with their fists (figuratively speaking) than to think things through.  Lambert was so focused on finding and punishing a mage he played right into Adrien's hands when she framed Rhys for her actions.  Had he not been so worked up about the conclave, he might have realized he and Rhys (and Wynne) were being set up.

 

Hmm, now that I think of it, Lambert is at least honest in his dealings with mages, and doesn't stoop to such underhanded methods.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Iakus: And he is right about so many of his accusations. 

 

I'm going to have a seriously hard time in DA:I not metagaming because of what I've read about one of the Companions.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Lambert did all that at the thought of mages having an autonomy lol.

Did what brought mages under control?

 

 

Both are tempermental, willing to think with their fists (figuratively speaking) than to think things through.  Lambert was so focused on finding and punishing a mage he played right into Adrien's hands when she framed Rhys for her actions.  Had he not been so worked up about the conclave, he might have realized he and Rhys (and Wynne) were being set up.

 

Hmm, now that I think of it, Lambert is at least honest in his dealings with mages, and doesn't stoop to such underhanded methods.

Every thing from his perspective pointed on Rhys (not to mention he was dealing with demon) if police will find weapon that someone was killed with in your house you will be arrested by police.Then it comes mages breaking away from chantry what would pretty much bring a lot disasters and destruction he stopped that.And unlike Adrian that was selfish (well not that i condemn that as im selfish myself) lambert was more concerned about majority well-being.