772 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

Both are tempermental, willing to think with their fists (figuratively speaking) than to think things through.  Lambert was so focused on finding and punishing a mage he played right into Adrien's hands when she framed Rhys for her actions.  Had he not been so worked up about the conclave, he might have realized he and Rhys (and Wynne) were being set up.

 

Hmm, now that I think of it, Lambert is at least honest in his dealings with mages, and doesn't stoop to such underhanded methods.

Adrian at least has good intentions. Lambert just wants to crush and conquer.

[AresKeith]

I found Asunder to be absolutely littered in reasons why the Templars have some very valid points - and why Lambert totally didn't seem as psychotic as the boards present him.

Never look to BSN for a clear presentation of the books, unless it's from unbiased people

[Iakus]

 

Every thing from his perspective pointed on Rhys (not to mention he was dealing with demon) if police will find weapon that someone was killed with in your house you will be arrested by police.Then it comes mages breaking away from chantry what would pretty much bring a lot disasters and destruction he stopped that.And unlike Adrian that was selfish (well not that i condemn that as im selfish myself) lambert was more concerned about majority well-being.

Not just arrested, though.  Lambert was convinced it was Rhys, despite the differences in mo.  He also used Rhy's arrest as an excuse to end the Conclave, which the Divine herself authorized.

 

I'm not questioning Lambert's motives.  Only that his paranoia was his undoing.  Adrien played on his paranoia, and on Wynne's willingness to protect her son, and Rhys's friendship with Cole.

 

She manipulated everyone to her own ends. 

[Medhia_Nox]

@Xilizhra:  Are you serious about Adrian?

She betrays Rhys because he had the audacity to not fit her mold (as a romantic interest and as a mage freedom fighter). 

 

Are those the kind of people you're standing with?

[TheKomandorShepard]

Adrian at least has good intentions. Lambert just wants to crush and conquer.

Jowan also had good intentions and it didn't went well for him or anyone same here... and nope lambert wanted stop war adrian wanted to start it.

 

 

Not just arrested, though.  Lambert was convinced it was Rhys, despite the differences in mo.  He also used Rhy's arrest as an excuse to end the Conclave, which the Divine herself authorized.

 

I'm not questioning Lambert's motives.  Only that his paranoia was his undoing.  Adrien played on his paranoia, and on Wynne's willingness to protect her son, and Rhys's friendship with Cole.

 

She manipulated everyone to her own ends. 

Who wouldn't?After so much things pointed on Rhys.

Divine was stupid and naive in first place second she was one who finally erupted this in first by her lack of action (she was compared to elthina fo good reason) what annoyed mages then ironically by taking action (silly action) that annoyed templars and letting mages start this war.

 

As i said lambert would have his way and he would stop war problem ultimately was divine without her adrian plan would pretty much nothing but failure.

[AresKeith]

@Xilizhra: Are you serious about Adrian?

She betrays Rhys because he had the audacity to not fit her mold (as a romantic interest and as a mage freedom fighter).

Are those the kind of people you're standing with?

Don't ask questions you don't want the answer too

[LobselVith8]

And you seem to be thinking that the Andrastian nobles have more say in the affairs of the people than the seers, when every text clearly says otherwise.

 

The only text you provided mentioned the Chantry, and not the Andrastian nobles. If you have any actual evidence to provide supporting your case, feel free to make it.

 

The hahren is a person, the elders are a group.  The keeper is a part of the elders, and the other "leaders of the clans" tend to defer to the keeper and his/her decisions. 

 

Ashalle says that the mother left her clan because of grief.  I don't doubt the Dalish Warden's mother died during childbirth(ie "stricken with grief, held out until childbirth, but couldn't go on without Mahariel's father").  But the Dalish of that same clan say that Merrill left of her own will and is becoming a danger to the clan, not that Marathari kicked her out of the clan.  So I have no doubts that saying the Warden's mother left of her own clan of her own accord is as much revisionist history as the Merrill thing.  Kind words to continue the oppression of non-mages and keep them brainwashed.

 

 

The actual dialogue pointed out that the hahren frowned on the union. The specific words used by Ashalle were that the hahren didn't "approve of the match". The father died because human and elven bandits killed him, the mother gave birth, and then she left in despair; that's basically all that's said by Ashalle. You and Mister JB, however, decided to substitute some of these facts for information that came directly from your own imaginations.

 

Please don't try to justify the fact that you substituted your conjecture for fact. You and MisterJB injected your own speculation and pretended as though it was fact (like your "claim" that the mother was kicked out), which I don't appreciate.

[Xilizhra]

@Xilizhra:  Are you serious about Adrian?

She betrays Rhys because he had the audacity to not fit her mold (as a romantic interest and as a mage freedom fighter). 

 

Are those the kind of people you're standing with?

It was strategically necessary, nothing personal.

 

And yes, I'm standing with the mages, to the bitter end if necessary.

[Iakus]

 

Who wouldn't?After so much things pointed on Rhys.

Divine was stupid and naive in first place second she was one who finally erupted this in first by her lack of action (she was compared to elthina fo good reason) what annoyed mages then ironically by taking action (silly action) that annoyed templars and letting mages start this war.

 

As i said lambert would have his way and he would stop war problem ultimately was divine without her adrian plan would pretty much nothing but failure.

 

The Divine was taking action.  Unlike Elthina.  And unlike the prvious Divine who was apparantly a puppet of the Templars.

 

The problem arose when 1) The actions she was taking weren't to Lambert's liking and 2) said actions were slower and more deliberate than hotheads like Adrien and Fiona liked.

 

The Divine wasn't bowing to either side, but paused to consider the long-term ramifications of her actions.

[Milan92]

Wait, Adrian was romantically interested in Rhys? Lol, that must have been awkward when he ended with Evangeline 

[Iakus]

Wait, Adrian was romantically interested in Rhys? Lol, that must have been awkward when he ended with Evangeline 

They used to be lovers.  and though they were still close, I believe they had broken up long before the events of Asunder.

[Lulupab]

Did what brought failed to bring mages under control?

Fixed.

[Milan92]

They used to be lovers.  and though they were still close, I believe they had broken up long before the events of Asunder.

 

Interesting. I did not know that!

 

Then again, I really should read the book

[LobselVith8]

@Xilizhra:  Are you serious about Adrian?

She betrays Rhys because he had the audacity to not fit her mold (as a romantic interest and as a mage freedom fighter). 

 

Are those the kind of people you're standing with?

 

Adrian wanted to see her people free from a system she saw as immoral and unjust. It's not surprising to me that some people don't see Adrian as a villain for wanting to see the mages free from the Chantry of Andraste and the Order of Templars, especially considering how some people on the other side of this debate have no issue with justifying the Rite of Tranquility and the Right of Annulment.

[AresKeith]

Wait, Adrian was romantically interested in Rhys? Lol, that must have been awkward when he ended with Evangeline

She got super jelly and salty lol

[TheKomandorShepard]

The Divine was taking action.  Unlike Elthina.  And unlike the prvious Divine who was apparantly a puppet of the Templars.

 

The problem arose when 1) The actions she was taking weren't to Lambert's liking and 2) said actions were slower and more deliberate than hotheads like Adrien and Fiona liked.

 

The Divine wasn't bowing to either side, but paused to consider the long-term ramifications of her actions.

 

She was taking action when everything was too late and that was dumb and naive actions...

She has taken action that would lead (and did lead) to destructive war even when lamber stabilized situation she destroyed that what lead to war we see now.

Pretty much sure same excuse was giving elthina to her "slow actions" when quick respond was required.

 

And that long-term ramifcation was mage templar war... that she pushed in the end.

[Hellion Rex]

@Xilizhra: Are you serious about Adrian?

She betrays Rhys because he had the audacity to not fit her mold (as a romantic interest and as a mage freedom fighter).

Are those the kind of people you're standing with?

*hiss* we do not speak of that vile woman.

[Xilizhra]

*hiss* we do not speak of that vile woman.

Oh, get over it already. I assume you're not still hating Isabela too?

[Lulupab]

Adrian wanted to see her people free from a system she saw as immoral and unjust. It's not surprising to me that some people don't see Adrian as a villain for wanting to see the mages free from the Chantry of Andraste and the Order of Templars, especially considering how some people on the other side of this debate have no issue with justifying the Rite of Tranquility and the Right of Annulment.

 

Agreed. Also Adrian is clearly smart and powerful enough to free herself so it not what drives her. Her motives are to free those who cannot free themselves but also do not want Tevinter.

[Iakus]

She was taking action when everything was too late and that was dumb and naive actions...

She has taken action that would lead (and did lead) to destructive war even when lamber stabilized situation she destroyed that what lead to war we see now.

Pretty much sure same excuse was giving elthina to her "slow actions" when quick respond was required.

 

And that long-term ramifcation was mage templar war... that she pushed in the end.

Whata actions are you speaking of that were "dumb and naive"?

[TK514]

Adrian wanted to see her people free from a system she saw as immoral and unjust. It's not surprising to me that some people don't see Adrian as a villain for wanting to see the mages free from the Chantry of Andraste and the Order of Templars, especially considering how some people on the other side of this debate have no issue with justifying the Rite of Tranquility and the Right of Annulment.

 

Because betraying friends and murdering innocents are clearly actions to be admired, right?

[LobselVith8]

Oh, get over it already. I assume you're not still hating Isabela too?

 

I find it interesting that some people can absolve Isabela of murdering slaves on her ship, but some of the same people condemn Adrian for taking actions because she wanted to free the mages from the Chantry controlled Circles, an institution some people on Adrian's ideological side see as dehumanizing and inhumane.

[Lulupab]

Because betraying friends and murdering innocents are clearly actions to be admired, right?

 

Questionable methods to reach a goal?

[Xilizhra]

Because betraying friends and murdering innocents are clearly actions to be admired, right?

Not inherently, but she did bad things for a cause that's actually good, so I'd put her above, say, Loghain.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Whata actions are you speaking of that were "dumb and naive"?

Freeing mages what cleary would lead to war (and lead) when lambert stabilized situation pretty much she caused not only war but also lost her army and was left with nothing if we don't count few peoples that are loyal to her.In the end she only screwd herself then was searching for someone who will fix mess she caused for her.