772 réponses à ce sujet

[Medhia_Nox]

@Lulu:  I only know of Fiona from Asunder just yet (what else is she in) and you are correct, she was quite surprising - as she was willing to accept what the entirety of assembled mages wanted.  Still - there's precious little about her in Asunder.

[Xilizhra]

It's not "a given" if the majority of mages actually supported the rebellion, in which case the vote wouldn't have been tied to begin with. 

It was a tied vote of three fraternities to one; that says something about the size of the latter, no?

 

 

I would "hope" they would have released any mages who wanted no part in the war.

That depends on whether they'd be security risks/potential moles.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Xilizhra:  Ahh, I see - I'm sure you would have told me how I would get my freedom "later", but right now I am just too dangerous to "the cause" - that's why I would never have gone to your militia camp pow wow.  Good foresight on my part.

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

Depends on what you mean by "deserve". 

If the mages are too weak to break free then no, they deserve their life in jail.
If the mages rebel and are strong enough to overcome the templars and break free, then they deserve to be free.

The weak do not "deserve" anything. The strong take what they want. The mages gaining freedom is deserved if they succeed in it and not if they fail. 

[Xilizhra]

@Xilizhra:  Ahh, I see - I'm sure you would have told me how I would get my freedom "later", but right now I am just too dangerous to "the cause" - that's why I would never have gone to your militia camp pow wow.  Good foresight on my part.

Isn't that exactly what you advocate for the Circle?

 

Also, fine. If you don't show up, fine. Just don't fight for the other side and I won't have to incinerate you.

[Ianamus]

It was a tied vote of three fraternities to one; that says something about the size of the latter, no?

 

That the one fraternity that actually wanted rebellion was no larger than the combined sizes of those that didn't?

[Lulupab]

@Lulu:  I only know of Fiona from Asunder just yet (what else is she in) and you are correct, she was quite surprising - as she was willing to accept what the entirety of assembled mages wanted.  Still - there's precious little about her in Asunder.

She is in The Calling and we explore her character much more deeper. If you don't mind spoilers the wiki has correct and extensive info on her:
http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Fiona

She somewhat has Daenerys personality, she always shows compassion first but if it doesn't work she is as ruthless and relentless as you can imagine. Though when I say ruthless I mean she doesn't give up, it doesn't mean she goes on a rampage.

It was a tied vote of three fraternities to one; that says something about the size of the latter, no?
 
 
That depends on whether they'd be security risks/potential moles.

I think it was already said that the Libertarians were starting to outnumber other fraternities greatly.

[Iakus]

It was a tied vote of three fraternities to one; that says something about the size of the latter, no?

 

Loyalists on one side, Libertarians on the other.  Do we know how the Lucrisions and Isolationists voted?

[Hellion Rex]

Loyalists on one side, Libertarians on the other. Do we know how the Lucrisions and Isolationists voted?

Nope. But they said the smaller fraternities fell in line with the Loyalists.

[Xilizhra]

Loyalists on one side, Libertarians on the other.  Do we know how the Lucrisions and Isolationists voted?

Both of them voted against.

[Iakus]

Both of them voted against.

So one large fraternity managed to outvote two smaller fraternities. 

[Urazz]

Depends on what you mean by "deserve". 

If the mages are too weak to break free then no, they deserve their life in jail.
If the mages rebel and are strong enough to overcome the templars and break free, then they deserve to be free.

The weak do not "deserve" anything. The strong take what they want. The mages gaining freedom is deserved if they succeed in it and not if they fail. 

I'm thinking that in DAI, the mages and templars are pretty much in a deadlock as far as the conflict goes.  It wouldn't surprise me if the Inquisition will be what changes that.

[Senya]

I think it should be pointed out that Rhys was a former Libertarian and from what we've seen of Aequitarians, they generally opposed the war. If I remember correctly, they were in the equivalent of a Coalition Government with the Loyalists.

 

From the wiki:

 

Spoiler

By the beginning of the Fifth Blight Aequitarians are the largest fraternity and are allied with the Loyalists, working alongside the templars. Libertarians are a growing fraternity that forms the largest opposition to this alliance.

[Xilizhra]

I think it should be pointed out that Rhys was a former Libertarian and from what we've seen of Aequitarians, they generally opposed the war. If I remember correctly, they were in the equivalent of a Coalition Government with the Loyalists.

Nope, they gave up on that and switched to a coalition with the Libertarians.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Xilizhra:  Actually, it's not at all what I condone for the Circles.  Being Pro-Reform doesn't mean I just want to have the guilded cage put back into place.  

 

As far as incinerating me... you can try little mageling... you can try.  

[Iakus]

I think it should be pointed out that Rhys was a former Libertarian and from what we've seen of Aequitarians, they generally opposed the war. If I remember correctly, they were in the equivalent of a Coalition Government with the Loyalists.

Indeed.  And when Rhys cast his vote he also explained why he voted for the split.  It wasn't on some vague "mages need to be free" ideal, but because things have degenerated too far.  Too much blood has been shed, no one is interested in a peaceful solution anymore.  Mages can no longer survive under the old rules.

 

He was actually quite reluctant when he chose to fight

[Medhia_Nox]

@Iakus:  Yeah, might have had something to do with a psychotic, jilted ex-lover who betrayed years of friendship and framed him just so she could get her war.

 

Fiona might be okay, don't know enough about her yet, but the company she keeps is poor.

 

But yes, Rhys knew "going back" likely meant mass Tranquility, executions and probably even worse imprisonment than before.  What Adrian did set the mages back centuries - the only option is to "force" understanding (which has never really worked in real life - but this is fantasy).

 

He didn't change his mind - he did the best he could with a situation broken by others (at least, that seems to be how the book explain his feelings)

[Hellion Rex]

As far as incinerating me... you can try little mageling... you can try.

Care to have some back up? I'm good with lightning.

[Iakus]

@Iakus:  Yeah, might have had something to do with a psychotic, jilted ex-lover who betrayed years of friendship and framed him just so she could get her war.

 

Fiona might be okay, don't know enough about her yet, but the company she keeps is poor.

 

But yes, Rhys knew "going back" likely meant mass Tranquility, executions and probably even worse imprisonment than before.  What Adrian did set the mages back centuries - the only option is to "force" understanding (which has never really worked in real life - but this is fantasy).

 

He didn't change his mind - he did the best he could with a situation broken by others (at least, that seems to be how the book explain his feelings)

Oh I agree, he did what he could in a mess that was untenable thanks to his ex-lover (whom I recall he considered killing after learning what she did exactly)

 

I do't know much about Fiona.  But her scenes in Asunder did not leave me impressed with her temperence.

[Xilizhra]

Care to have some back up? I'm good with lightning.

Ah, so now you've decided to pull an Adrian yourself? Good thing I'm not so helpless.

[Hellion Rex]

Ah, so now you've decided to pull an Adrian yourself? Good thing I'm not so helpless.

Relax. I'm not gunning down anyone unless they shoot at me first.

But if you start gunning down mages who decide that they don't want to support the rebellion, then we have an issue.

[MisterJB]

Care to have some back up? I'm good with lightning.

You have my sword.

[AresKeith]

The Lucrosians are the second-smallest, the Isolationists are the smallest. Libertarians are I think second-largest.


He was the last one to cast a vote, so that's a given.

The fact that his vote carried the weight means that yes half didn't want to fight

[Icy Magebane]

Depends on what you mean by "deserve". 

If the mages are too weak to break free then no, they deserve their life in jail.
If the mages rebel and are strong enough to overcome the templars and break free, then they deserve to be free.

The weak do not "deserve" anything. The strong take what they want. The mages gaining freedom is deserved if they succeed in it and not if they fail. 

This type of mindset is not applicable to civilized societies in which people are expected to abide by the law and behave in a way that either benefits or avoids harming the collective.  What you are proposing is strict mob rule, or perhaps even anarchy, neither of which are accurate descriptions of any government in Thedas.  If the citizens of a nation are expected to behave themselves and abide by the law, then the government is responsible for creating and enforcing laws that protect the safety and freedom of each citizen.  This applies to both mages and non-mages.  Targeting a specific group and placing severe restrictions on their rights while simultaneously expecting them to abide by the laws of the nation in question is both unjust and detrimental to society as a whole.

 

Advanced societies rise and persist through the ages because their rulers and citizens recognize that life is more than a simple struggle between the weak and the strong.  Laws themselves exist to bring order to this natural conflict, and allow for those of limited strength to exist alongside those who are smarter, stronger, faster, etc.  The degree of natural rights each person has varies from culture to culture, but the concept is always present in the foundation of laws.  Thus, the mages do not deserve freedom only if they can escape from their unjust imprisonment.  They deserve freedom because they have broken no laws and as such must be allowed the same basic freedoms as any other law-abiding citizen, regardless of the fact that they can control magical forces.

[AresKeith]

You have my sword.

And Iron Bull's Axe