772 réponses à ce sujet

[CrimsonN7]

I don't think it would be a good idea to let mages go free completely no matter how strong they thought they were, only takes 1 slip up & you have an abomination wrecking havoc

 

That's where I'm hoping and it is only hope that if they brought and taught mages from a young age on how best to control and hone their gift chances of this happening might be reduced somewhat. Perhaps as a result they would be mentally stronger to resist. That temptation and danger will always be there, where there is magic demons aren't far away to pray on you but mages can't help what they are. They were born with this, the power they wield is immense but if given trust and if nurtured correctly from a young age such temptations may be avoided.

 

This is all perhaps and maybes here but the system we have now doesn't work, if I was a mage I wouldn't like being oppressed myself for something I can't help being. Taking away people's freedom is never right unless they are criminals of course, if a mage has killed then of course they should be kept away from the public but the majority of mages are benevolent. Sadly it only takes a few who give into the darker side of their power to tighten the noose around everyone else. People fear them for the power they wield but if given trust I'm sure many would like to return it in kind and live their lives to benefit those around them. Of course there will always be some who will abuse their gift but I would like to hope the majority would try to live life as best they could and respect the law and those around them.

[Tevinter Rose]

The mages should have complete freedom. Controlling them never seems to work long term. I rather like Tevinter's system, where circles are controlled by fellow mages. I think some kind of apprenticeship deal where they study under a more experienced mage or non oppressive magi school, where they can learn fundamentals and can leave once they're done with their studies would work. As it is now, Templars are too biased and too cracked out on lyrium to ever properly and fairly keep mages in line long term.

[AresKeith]

There's no real simple answer to it
 
On one hand, Mages do deserve some freedom and on the other hand, they definitely need to be supervised
 

Yes they do. Instead of locking them away for life due to their gift they should be trained from a young age on how best to control their power. Perhaps a boarding school like system, family/friends can visit certain times of the year and such. Once they have reached adulthood they are free to leave and live their lives. Something like this would be much more humane and would do more good than the glorified prison existence mages have in DA.

The only real problem is that even in adulthood, they'll forever be in constant danger from demons trying to possess them

[General TSAR]

Taking away people's freedom is never right unless they are criminals of course, 

More accurately if they are a danger to the public, which Mages by their existence. 

 

Also that statement is not accurate when talking about quarantining someone with a deadly infectious illness. 

 As it is now, Templars are too biased and too cracked out on lyrium to ever properly and fairly keep mages in line long term.

Yeah it's only worked for a thousand years so.....

[Gannayev of Dreams]

Most peoples in thedas dislike mages and before templars they were killing them often even now being mage or having one in family is seen as disgrace

 

A rather broad assumption.  It seems more likely that regional attitudes towards mages were more nuanced and emotionally informed than "Yea I don't like mages,

lets just kill em".  Tevinter, for example, certainly wouldn't take that approach.

 

Most won't have problem with them and as i said i have laws but behind them are peoples who enforce them to solve problem that you are talking about.

 

You seem to keep glossing over the necessity of restructuring all of society into one that heavily limits personal freedom to achieve this.  The harsher the laws the harder they are to enforce.  To do what you suggest you'd need complete control.  Any lapse in that control and people will find ways to subvert your "laws" about murdering their babies.

 

 

We don't have many such peoples and peoples who break the law are always punished.

 

Besides most peoples follow ethics that society dictates. 

 

No, people who break laws are not always punished.  This is true no matter how developed or undeveloped the society in question is.

 

Also, for a society to have ethics society must agree to a standard of ethics.  Again... you're going to have elements that aren't going to let you murder their friends and family, not even if "society" tells them to.

[Hellion Rex]

Do they deserve it? Yes.

 

Is it feasible? Nope.

[Icy Magebane]

Bad idea. 

Well played.  That was some truly stunning analysis.  /sarcasm

[TheKomandorShepard]

 

More accurately if they are a danger to the public, which Mages by their existence. 

 

Also that statement is not accurate when talking about quarantining someone with a deadly infectious illness. 

Yeah it's only worked for a thousand years so.....

 

Yep pretty much this.

 

About this working well tevinter worked even for longer so i would argue and ask how it was working form what i saw it didn't worked very well if i had to fight with insane mages and abomnations in every game same for fixing mess they caused.

 

 

 

A rather broad assumption.  It seems more likely that regional attitudes towards mages were more nuanced and emotionally informed than "Yea I don't like mages,

lets just kill em".  Tevinter, for example, certainly wouldn't take that approach.

 

 

You seem to keep glossing over the necessity of restructuring all of society into one that heavily limits personal freedom to achieve this.  The harsher the laws the harder they are to enforce.  To do what you suggest you'd need complete control.  Any lapse in that control and people will find ways to subvert your "laws" about murdering their babies.

 

 

No, people who break laws are not always punished.  This is true no matter how developed or undeveloped the society in question is.

 

Also, for a society to have ethics society must agree to a standard of ethics.  Again... you're going to have elements that aren't going to let you murder their friends and family, not even if "society" tells them to.

 

Tevinter is for now another thing for now outlaw mages in other places.

 

Well i doubt that peoples will care at least most those laws doesn't concern them no more than "don't steal" such laws will be toward mages they dislike anyway and aren't abusive toward them pretty much most don't care how elves are treated in fact most folks are eager to join purges. Now they lose their childrens as well with good chance of theing being killed or turned into zombie but they won't see them never again.

 

I higly doubt that pesants love to be pesants and don't have rights same for commoners in orlais yet they live with that.Simple it is that way because society tells that it is that way and they follow. 

[General TSAR]

Well played.  That was some truly stunning analysis.  /sarcasm

Thank you dear. 

 

About this working well tevinter worked even for longer so i would argue and ask how it was working form what i saw it didn't worked very well if i had to fight with insane mages and abomnations in every game same for fixing mess they caused.

Because we hadn't had a game take place in Tevinter yet. Besides I think the Qunari have the least number of incidents of any race, which the nations of Thedas need to adopt their methods. 

[AresKeith]

. As it is now, Templars are too biased and too cracked out on lyrium to ever properly and fairly keep mages in line long term.

 

Not entirely true, both DAO and DA2 showed Templars who aren't biased towards mages

[General TSAR]

Not entirely true, both DAO and DA2 showed Templars who aren't biased towards mages

And that's the problem, I bet they won't even have the will to bind them, cut their tongues out, and make them drink the Qunari mind juice. 

[TheKomandorShepard]

Thank you dear. 

 

 

Because we hadn't had a game take place in Tevinter yet. Besides I think the Qunari have the least number of incidents of any race, which the nations of Thedas need to adopt their methods. 

I would agree if their qunari mage didn't almost summoned army of demons to destroy world but i agree they are best in controling mages but simple there is no way to control mages so in my opinion they need to be "defused".

[General TSAR]

I would agree if their qunari mage didn't almost summoned army of demons to destroy world but i agree they are best in controling mages but simple there is no way to control mages so in my opinion they need to be "defused".

But that's wasting resources. 

[TheKomandorShepard]

But that's wasting resources. 

Well guns that explode in your hand are rather poor resources better invest in technology than to have some psycho mage blow up entire world.

[Freedheart]

"Magic exists to serve man, and never to rule over him.

Foul and corrupt are they

Who have taken His gift

And turned it against His children.

They shall be named Maleficar, accursed ones.

They shall find no rest in this world,

or beyond."

 

Magic is a tool, and shouldn't be used as a weapon.  It is also a GIFT from the Maker.  ONLY those that turn it against His children should be driven out. 

 

It could be said that mages are the Maker's chosen children, as they are the only ones who have received this GIFT.  Yes, there is temptation...and fear from without.  But there has to be a middle ground between 'death to all' and 'let them run free until they turn into abominations'...for the safety of the mages as much as society.

 

That said, the Dalish don't seem to have a lot of trouble controlling their mages, completely without the intervention of the chantry...something could be learned from them, perhaps?

 

Also, keep in mind, ALL power is subject to abuse.  What happened to the circle in Kirkwall was much more due to the Templars having too much power than any actions of the mages.  (Not that Anders helped.)

 

There was a time when left-handed people were considered evil...do we really advocate for that mindset in Thedas?

[Pierce Miller]

The argument comes down to this, you can shackle and weaken the mages for as long as you want but eventually they'll recognise their true potential. All they have to do is coordinate and I honestly believe they'll win the Mage Templar war. So it's not about if they deserve freedom it's about whether or not every mundane will be flayed alive and used in blood rituals

[lil yonce]

That's my ideal anyway.

I agree with a tweak that gives mages circle autonomy as promised under the Nevarran Accord.

 

I don't think cutting the Chantry out of things is the best idea at the moment. I know a lot of people want to get the Circle away from its religious teachings, but Thedas is mostly feudal, and a circle in a feudal society under state guard like some would like to see, I don't see how mages wouldn't be at the mercy of a king. I could see a non-Chantry circle being expected to pay taxes and provide mages for military service like nobles are expected to pay taxes and provide armies for the kingdom. A Hogwarts idea could flip into mage military academy. If they want to hold land I don't see how they'd have a choice in that. And the Chantry discourages mages from participating in combat so that's not an issue there. Mages won't have power enough to dictate magic use to a secular government, the only organization that could is the Chantry. Just something to consider, I suppose.

[General TSAR]

The argument comes down to this, you can shackle and weaken the mages for as long as you want but eventually they'll recognise their true potential. 

Exactly. Indoctrinate them enough and they'll lose any sense of self, desire, and emotion.

 

Perfect thralls. 

[Freedheart]

Komandor - would you care to elaborate?

 

 

Oh and for those advocating death or lobotomy - remember that it is possible to play DAO as a mage, and with two mages in your party, it could be argued that without magic, the fifth blight most likely wouldn't have been stopped within a year...and one of those mages was an - *gasp!* - apostate. 

[FreshRevenge]

Do you know what is really ironic is Templars use magic against magic. I mean they use Magic to track down apostates by using the phylacteries that were taken from the mage.

 

To me I feel that is wrong to imprison mages just for being born with the ability of casting magic. I feel that it is wrong to rip a young child from their families just because of this.

 

I understand the Templars are trying to protect people from magic but swords, daggers and weapons are made to kill just as well.

 

In Dragon Age 2, I felt they portrayed mages in a very bad light. That it seem everyone in Kirkwall was a blood mage. Even the First Enchanter Orsino was a blood mage as a means of protecting their freedom. In the Legacy dlc it hinted the idea that the magistar was influencing the mages from his sleep. So that is why the mages were all turning to blood magic.

 

I think Thrask in Dragon Age 2 was a sympathetic Templar because his daughter was a mage. But then she turned into an abomination. 

 

I just hope they don't make mages out to be all evil in Dragon Age Inquisition.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Komandor - would you care to elaborate?

Practically every dalish clan we have meet had problems with mages save for clan from dragon age redemption but still their first/keeper was dumb as hell.

[LobselVith8]

That said, the Dalish don't seem to have a lot of trouble controlling their mages, completely without the intervention of the chantry...something could be learned from them, perhaps?

 

Magic is seen as a gift of the Creators (not a curse, as many Andrastians do), so the general attitude is different from the onset, and you have mages living alongside non-mages in the clan; it's completely different to Andrastian society and the Chantry controlled Circles. The mages are properly instructed on how to use their powers, but they also have some prohibitions, like not using magic that involves spirits because they view all spirits as dangerous.

[Black Jimmy]

Yes, generally, mages deserve freedom. The fact that they're mages is irrelevant. Freedom is a universal right.

After all the stuff humanity has been through with slavery in the past, I can't understand how this question needs asking. 

 

The Circles and Templars should exist.

The Circle as a school to teach young mages to control there abilities. After graduation, they can do whatever they want. Mage should police mages.

The Templars or at the very least, someone with there abilities to take on the responsibility of tracking down Mage Criminals, but Mages should also be part of said organization.

[Xilizhra]

Again?

 

Yes, but we have no more current information than we did three years ago. As of now, there's nothing more to say.

[AshenEndymion]

That said, the Dalish don't seem to have a lot of trouble controlling their mages, completely without the intervention of the chantry...something could be learned from them, perhaps?

 

Of the Dalish mages(we've met five via the games), one was possessed by a demon(Marethari), two turned to blood magic(Merrill and Zathrian), and one tried to launch a one-woman crusade of killing every human in the Arling of Ameranthine(Velanna).

 

It seems to me that the Dalish have a success rate with their mages comparable to the the Circle....