772 réponses à ce sujet

[Palidane]

Being a member of a culture where you're only exposed to a single god - the Maker - and expressing that you don't believe in that god is certainly an example of expressing an atheist point of view; even Gaider conceded that he was wrong about the Cousland protagonist not being able to express an atheist point of view when another poster provided the exact dialogue that could he said by the player. Even the Surana protagonist, who is culturally Andrastian, could express that the Maker wasn't his god.

 

 

You don't need to be organized or powerful to be an atheist.

I forgot the exact posts I read, you may be right. I meant that while atheists exist in Thedas, they are utterly relevant and don't need to be considered on any scale larger than an individual person.

 

But again, circles, and this isn't really the right thread for religious debates.

[Lulupab]

On the Lyrium topic Lines of lyrium run through the anvil of the void as well aka it was directly supplied with Lyrium.

 

So its entirely possible everything that we saw in the gauntlet was because of Lyrium.

[dragonflight288]

On the Lyrium topic Lines of lyrium run through the anvil of the void as well aka it was directly supplied with Lyrium.

 

So its entirely possible everything that we saw in the gauntlet was because of Lyrium.

 

Yup. 

 

Or it may be because of the Maker's blessing, I mean the Guardian had been alive for centuries, he was one of Andraste's first disciples and knew her personally, which he'll admit if your cunning is high enough. 

 

But lyrium is just as likely an alternative as the Maker, depending on if you're roleplaying a believer or not. 

[Lulupab]

Yup. 

 

Or it may be because of the Maker's blessing, I mean the Guardian had been alive for centuries, he was one of Andraste's first disciples and knew her personally, which he'll admit if your cunning is high enough. 

 

But lyrium is just as likely an alternative as the Maker, depending on if you're roleplaying a believer or not. 

 

But was he "immortal" or simply immune to passing of time because there is huge difference. I think Lyrium like blood magic can extend life and in that excess it can probably grant unlimited life so long as you are not killed. Or maybe he is a spirit for all we know.

[Xilizhra]

Yup. 

 

Or it may be because of the Maker's blessing, I mean the Guardian had been alive for centuries, he was one of Andraste's first disciples and knew her personally, which he'll admit if your cunning is high enough. 

 

But lyrium is just as likely an alternative as the Maker, depending on if you're roleplaying a believer or not. 

He says he did. Cole was also wholly convinced he was human.

[Palidane]

Yup. 

 

Or it may be because of the Maker's blessing, I mean the Guardian had been alive for centuries, he was one of Andraste's first disciples and knew her personally, which he'll admit if your cunning is high enough. 

 

But lyrium is just as likely an alternative as the Maker, depending on if you're roleplaying a believer or not. 

I disagree. What does the Anvil of the Void being made of lyrium have to do with the Gauntlet? How does that track? What's the connection?

[dragonflight288]

But was he "immortal" or simply immune to passing of time because there is huge difference. I think Lyrium like blood magic can extend life and in that excess it can probably grant unlimited life so long as you are not killed. Or maybe he is a spirit for all we know.

 

*shrug*

 

He may well be. He certainly had the power of discernment, being able to tell the life-story of whomever he looked upon. Impossible to say at present. 

 

He says he did. Cole was also wholly convinced he was human.

 

Also true. 

 

The only way to know for sure is if we use the Litany of Adralla on the guardian as a test

[Lulupab]

I disagree. What does the Anvil of the Void being made of lyrium have to do with the Gauntlet? How does that track? What's the connection?

 

Like Lyrium wells it has to power to shape and change things immensely. aka turning people into alive stones/metals without the help of a single mage.

[LobselVith8]

But was he "immortal" or simply immune to passing of time because there is huge difference. I think Lyrium like blood magic can extend life and in that excess it can probably grant unlimited life so long as you are not killed. Or maybe he is a spirit for all we know.

 

Oghren does say that the lyrium is having an impact on everything in the temple, so that would conceivably have an impact on the Guardian as well, who seems to reside there. It's even possible the developers may use the presence of the rich and powerful lyrium to explain how Leliana survived, in the scenarios where she dies at the ruins of the temple.

[dragonflight288]

I disagree. What does the Anvil of the Void being made of lyrium have to do with the Gauntlet? How does that track? What's the connection?

 

The use of lyrium can have strange effects.

 

The use of it in the Anvil allowed the dwarven smiths to take life from a dwarf or some other living thing, and in turn give life to a hunk of stone and steel, creating a golem. 

 

Lyrium in the temple may have created the 'spirits' during the riddle game, drawing on spirits in the Fade to create near carbon-copies. It may have altered the physical properties of the ashes themselves.

 

Lyrium is nothing more than raw magic as an ore. It's used in enchantment, the rite of tranquility, amplifying spells, various rituals like the Harrowing, and gives templars their power to negate magic. It has a wide variety of uses, and is probably just as versatile, maybe more so, than magic itself is. 

 

And thus, its side effects from its presence may also be just as versatile and unpredictable. 

 

The difference between the anvil and the Ashes is that the Anvil used lyrium for a very set procedure, and the Ashes was placed in a mountain full of the stuff, and may have had unpredictable side effects as a direct result of proximity plus belief. 

[Palidane]

Like Lyrium wells it has to power to shape and change things immensely. aka turning people into alive stones/metals without the help of a single mage.

What does that have to do with the Gauntlet?

 

Oghren does say that the lyrium is having an impact on everything in the temple, so that would conceivably have an impact on the Guardian as well, who seems to reside there. It's even possible the developers may use the presence of the rich and powerful lyrium to explain how Leliana survived, in the scenarios where she dies at the ruins of the temple.

If lyrium makes you immortal, why haven't the dwarves discovered it by now? And how come it doesn't resurrect people who die mining lyrium in the deep roads? Again, the lyrium explanation makes no sense. As far as theories go, it has to be at least as weak as "the Maker did it".

[dragonflight288]

If lyrium makes you immortal, why haven't the dwarves discovered it by now? And how come it doesn't resurrect people who die mining lyrium in the deep roads? Again, the lyrium explanation makes no sense. As far as theories go, it has to be at least as weak as "the Maker did it".

 

Avernus used blood magic to slow the aging process and hold back the taint for centuries. 

 

It's not impossible for lyrium to do the same, especially when with the ashes it adds a near universal healing factor. 

 

As for why the dwarves haven't discovered it? Probably for the very same reason they can't use magic. Their resistance to it. They work it into their arms and armor for enchantment, and only sell a pittance of what they mine to the surface, but as they have no mages, they can't use it to its full potential either. 

[LobselVith8]

If lyrium makes you immortal, why haven't the dwarves discovered it by now? And how come it doesn't resurrect people who die mining lyrium in the deep roads? Again, the lyrium explanation makes no sense. As far as theories go, it has to be at least as weak as "the Maker did it".

 

Oghren does note that it's richer and purer than anything he's sensed, to the point where it's actively changing the temple and everything inside it; perhaps that has something to do with it.

[dragonflight288]

Oghren does note that it's richer and purer than anything he's sensed, to the point where it's actively changing the temple and everything inside it; perhaps that has something to do with it.

 

I still think an accidental side effect of lyrium added into the healing power of the ashes as they now have is more likely, and probably more in line with what Avernus accomplished with blood magic. 

[Lulupab]

What does that have to do with the Gauntlet?

 

If lyrium makes you immortal, why haven't the dwarves discovered it by now? And how come it doesn't resurrect people who die mining lyrium in the deep roads? Again, the lyrium explanation makes no sense. As far as theories go, it has to be at least as weak as "the Maker did it".

 

Oh well, baby steps I suppose.

 

It seems you either ignored or didn't see the Lyrium well example. Here is what Lyrium wells can do and its very similar to the gauntlet.

 

Create defensive barriers than can open in a certain way. We have it on gauntlet, first phase.

 

Create magical switches. Like there is a switch, you press it something magically moves or the barrier gets removed. The trick here is the barrier and the switch are not connected by anything and the Lyrium well operates it all. Remember the puzzle that created a bridge?

 

We fight our copies, Lyrium can shape and change things as we see it on Anvil. It can change pretty much anything to look like the shadow of the party or the person you see based on your origin.

[Xilizhra]

Also true. 

 

The only way to know for sure is if we use the Litany of Adralla on the guardian as a test

And it vanishes from our inventory after Broken Circle, alas...

[Palidane]

Avernus used blood magic to slow the aging process and hold back the taint for centuries. 

 

It's not impossible for lyrium to do the same, especially when with the ashes it adds a near universal healing factor. 

 

As for why the dwarves haven't discovered it? Probably for the very same reason they can't use magic. Their resistance to it. They work it into their arms and armor for enchantment, and only sell a pittance of what they mine to the surface, but as they have no mages, they can't use it to its full potential either. 

The Guardian is not a mage. We don't know the Ashes heal because of Lyrium. The Dwarves resistance to magic is an evolutionary adaptation to protect them from high quantities of lyrium. Not the kind of thing that's neccessary if it gives you immortality.

[Hellion Rex]

 

The only way to know for sure is if we use the Litany of Adralla on the guardian as a test

The Litany only dispels blood magic mind control, no? So how would that effect the Guardian unless he is actively using blood magic?

[Xilizhra]

The Guardian is not a mage. We don't know the Ashes heal because of Lyrium. The Dwarves resistance to magic is an evolutionary adaptation to protect them from high quantities of lyrium. Not the kind of thing that's neccessary if it gives you immortality.

The Guardian is something, being apparently psychic and able to teleport. Probably some kind of spirit. I also think it's entirely possible that the ashes were deliberately enchanted to have healing powers. Or, perhaps, it was the Urn that was enchanted. What I don't get is why pouring dragon's blood into it would destroy the healing effect, but it seems extremely odd if the ashes really were blessed by the Maker.

[Hellion Rex]

The Guardian is something, being apparently psychic and able to teleport. Probably some kind of spirit. I also think it's entirely possible that the ashes were deliberately enchanted to have healing powers. Or, perhaps, it was the Urn that was enchanted. What I don't get is why pouring dragon's blood into it would destroy the healing effect, but it seems extremely odd if the ashes really were blessed by the Maker.

Considering dragon blood is probably very magical...might it not enhance the healing properties?

[dragonflight288]

The Guardian is not a mage. We don't know the Ashes heal because of Lyrium. The Dwarves resistance to magic is an evolutionary adaptation to protect them from high quantities of lyrium. Not the kind of thing that's neccessary if it gives you immortality.

 

Neither is Eamon, yet they clearly effect him. 

 

Templars aren't mages, yet they use lyrium regularly to get their "holy" powers. 

 

And the guardian isn't immortal, he can be killed by the Warden who defiles the ashes. As can Avernus who extends his life using blood magic. Lyrium is used regularly by dwarves for enchantments, and they don't have a single mage among them. 

 

It's quite possible no one has experimented with the possibility before because lyrium, by its very nature, is very dangerous. Mages can't go near unprocessed lyrium without suffering deformations and death, humans and elves can't even handle it until its been processed by the dwarves and sold to the surface. 

 

Avernus experimented with blood magic, actively looking for a way to hold off the taint, extend his life, all the while fighting a near constant demonic invasion. The dwarves don't have mages, and thus their capacity to experiment with lyrium is reduced, and the dangerous quality of lyrium makes any experimentation on the surface also dangerous. 

 

Lyrium has a wide array of utility, and it's highly unlikely anyone has discovered everything it can do. I don't doubt that it can be used to delay old age like Avernus does with blood magic, but I doubt that anyone has taken the time to research the possibility of it because lyrium is so dangerous to work with. 

 

I think it's quite likely that all the lyrium in the mountain created a series of side effects on the ashes and the gauntlet itself, and the guardian's longevitiy may simply be part of those effects. 

 

The fact that no one has discovered how to do it does not take away the possibility of its, well, possibility. 

[Lulupab]

Considering dragon blood is probably very magical...might it not enhance the healing properties?

 

OMG

 

I think figured it out.

 

OK there is especial kind of Lyrium that is ONLY found in bone pit where the dragons are.there is corrupted lyrium in bone pit and its worth noticing there is no sign of taint in the bone pits, just dragons. Dragon blood corrupts Lyrium!

 

There is no corrupted Lyrium in the deep roads. Where there is taint but no dragons.

[dragonflight288]

The Litany only dispels blood magic mind control, no? So how would that effect the Guardian unless he is actively using blood magic?

 

It also has an effect on denizens of the Fade. Lambert uses it and it clearly affects Cole in Asunder. 

[Xilizhra]

Considering dragon blood is probably very magical...might it not enhance the healing properties?

You would think, but the Guardian goes nuts when you do so and attacks you, so apparently it destroyed them instead.

 

 

OMG

 

I think figured it out.

 

OK there is especial kind of Lyrium that is ONLY found in bone pit where the dragons are. Now we have visited deep roads too and there has been no corrupted Lyrium but there is corrupted lyrium in bone pit and its worth noticing there is no sign of taint in the bone pits, just dragons. Dragon blood corrupts Lyrium!

That seems slightly strange; how would the ancient dwarves have gotten dragon's blood when they were so deep underground?

[Lulupab]

It also has an effect on denizens of the Fade. Lambert uses it and it clearly affects Cole in Asunder. 

 

I doubt it would affect Justice or Anders possessed by him. Or Wynne. Maybe it affects denizens who use blood magic?