Which, in consideration that Ella tried to leave underground to let her mother know she was okay, could suggest Ser Thrask's intervention more than anything else.
It was my understanding that Ella's mother was unaware of Ella's location. So Ella wouldn't be an example of someone being denied visitation.
Why she didn't send a letter, as she obviously can later, is curious.
It was my understanding that Ella's mother was unaware of Ella's location. So Ella wouldn't be an example of someone being denied visitation.
Why she didn't send a letter, as she obviously can later, is curious.
Well it is not clear as i remember 1 of the templars was kicked by meredith because he was delivering letters to mage from her boyfriend.
Well it is not clear as i remember 1 of the templars was kicked by meredith because he was delivering letters to mage from her boyfriend.
Yay, inconsistency. 
@ Emperor - actually, Hawke is nobility through his mother's side - which is Amell...through his wealth, she was able to regain their families standing...
Yes, and the Amells LSOT their nobility long ago. Hawke was able to BUY himself back into those ranks. Gamlen was however NOT elevated to nobility status.
Guest_john_sheparrd_*
Nope they don't at least not absolute freedom
they have to be in circles BUT they should be better treated by the templars and in general there shouldn't be
this prison atmoshphere they should be allowed to do more stuff
Still without the Circles they are running Time bombs and I don't like that so there is actually a compromise (damm you Anders)
so I hope we will be able to restore the Circles
Yes, and the Amells LSOT their nobility long ago. Hawke was able to BUY himself back into those ranks. Gamlen was however NOT elevated to nobility status.
I suspect Gamlen's loss of status had more to do with his gambling addiction than anything else.
Yay, inconsistency.
Nah it was dragon age 2 
Nope they don't at least not absolute freedom
they have to be in circles BUT they should be better treated by the templars and in general there shouldn't be
this prison atmoshphere they should be allowed to do more stuff
Still without the Circles they are running Time bombs and I don't like that so there is actually a compromise (damm you Anders)
so I hope we will be able to restore the Circles
They are still time bombs even with circles. 
And how well circles worked we saw playing 2 games dealing with disasters caused by mages.
Well it is not clear as i remember 1 of the templars was kicked by meredith because he was delivering letters to mage from her boyfriend.
Considering that templar was Samson, I'm doubtful that that's the whole story behind his dismissal.... More likely it's a half-truth. Like he delivered a letter without inspecting it for contraband or something....
Everyone seems to be forgetting that you too are a character in this universe. How would you feel if you were a Mage or a Templar or just a regular person. I beat you wouldn't be so happy with the idea of genocide or imprisonment if you were a Mage.
True. I but the flip-side is also true. I wouldn't be so happy with the idea of mages being free and enslaving non-mages if i were a regular person or Templar. And, with my luck, I'd probably be a regular person or Templar if I found myself in Thedas. Mostly because I'm rarely lucky enough to be able to blow things up with my mind...
Everyone seems to be forgetting that you too are a character in this universe. How would you feel if you were a Mage or a Templar or just a regular person. I beat you wouldn't be so happy with the idea of genocide or imprisonment if you were a Mage.
So what?Soldiers kills but i doubt that they would like to be killed and yet still kill ,peoples imprison others but still i doubt that they would want to be imprisoned.Same here it is we or them situation i chose myself not them.
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So what?Soldiers kills but i doubt that they would like to be killed and yet still kill ,peoples imprison others but still i doubt that they would want to be imprisoned.Same here it is we or them situation i chose myself not them.
You can make that statement, but I don't think you can claim that it is an ethical statement.
Your argument seems to boil down to this: people capable of killing other people should be killed before they can kill anyone. Unfortunately anyone is capable of killing another person. It seems like everyone ought to be killed.
If you are going to say that only people capable of killing many people at once should be killed I'll remind you of the elf in the poison gas quest in the demands of the qun. She killed a lot of people and was not a mage.
Earlier in the thread you made this statement "There is no better or worse morality there is only your morality and someone else." There are ways to judge a moral system better than another. The easiest to use is internal consistency. I'm not at all sure that your solution of eliminating everyone who may be a threat is internally consistent as the world is an empty set if one were to carry your solution through to its logical conclusion.
You can make that statement, but I don't think you can claim that it is an ethical statement.
Your argument seems to boil down to this: people capable of killing other people should be killed before they can kill anyone. Unfortunately anyone is capable of killing another person. It seems like everyone ought to be killed.
If you are going to say that only people capable of killing many people at once should be killed I'll remind you of the elf in the poison gas quest in the demands of the qun. She killed a lot of people and was not a mage.
Earlier in the thread you made this statement "There is no better or worse morality there is only your morality and someone else." There are ways to judge a moral system better than another. The easiest to use is internal consistency. I'm not at all sure that your solution of eliminating everyone who may be a threat is internally consistent as the world is an empty set if one were to carry your solution through to its logical conclusion.
It it isn't ethical statement is is practical statement and how things work.
It isn't also about "you can harm me i so will kill you" it is more far more complex it is all about survival and it involve much more factors like how big chances are it will hurt me , how dangerous it is etc for examples dogs aren't seen and treated same way as for example bears or tigers despite both can be dangerous.Same for guns and nuclear bomb both can be dangerous but peoples treat both differently.
So in the end mages are huge threat to everyone even themeslves and as proved they often cause disasters and any means to control them doesn't seem to work as we saw.
My biggest problem is the same that the Divine brought up in Asunder. These are people who didn't choose to be what they are, and in return, out of fear, we lock them in a cage. Worse, we lock them up and only release them to do our bidding. "Make an unwavering light", "heal x, y, z", and then, we lock them back up. The Divine said it herself, that's slavery. Pure and simple. And I do believe ethics should come into play here, because these are people. People, who both have something to add to society and take away.
My belief? The Circle should be the equivalent of a soldier's boot camp. A boarding school that acts as a training facility from about 10 years of age to the end of training. The Harrowing should be extended, i.e. if you fail once, you are permitted to try again up to three times, three failures result in Tranquility or death, to be chosen by the mage performing it. Learning only occurs through practice after all. Once the Harrowing is done, mages must continue a specialization course (not only combat specs, but healers, diviners, enchanters, etc), and then they graduate. At this point they may rejoin their families, and continue on with their lives.
The tradeoff? Families must visit their mage members at the circle during training if they wish to visit them at all. Blood magic's penalty is death along with any other crime that would result in capital punishment, other crimes' result is Tranquility (or death if considered preferable) instead of jail time or dedicated work in a mage field for the government (similar to parole) instead of community service. Phylacteries are blood magic and banned, as the Chantry should lead by example.
Templars answer to a code containing these rules, and any problem that does not interfere with the code should be brought up with local rulers.
Mages are permitted to send letters to family and friends from the Circle.
Is this perfect, as in, result in no abominations or malificar ever? No. But it is an ethical solution that will result in less overall, and Mages themselves will end up hating, rather than secretly idolizing, those who do not obey, as it makes life worse for everyone, especially since there is a way out.
@TheKomandorShepherd. I must have misread some of your posts earlier. I took you to be making the claim that eradicating all of the mages in thedas was a morally valid action opposed to just a pragmatic action based on your fear of potentially being hurt. To claim that it is a pragmatic action still leaves room for it to be a morally reprehensible solution.
As for your ethical calculus as to who deserves to be insta-killed vs who doesn't. That can be a slippery slope to insta-killing everyone. Bears, tigers, dogs, anyone who may be a threat ...
Everyone seems to be forgetting that you too are a character in this universe. How would you feel if you were a Mage or a Templar or just a regular person. I beat you wouldn't be so happy with the idea of genocide or imprisonment if you were a Mage.
They will always need supervision because there will always be bad people in the world. And unlike normal people, mages can wreak havoc easily no matter how trained they are. A single mage can devastate an entire village of people unless there are Templars to stop them.
That said, treating mages cruelly and locking them up forever makes them yearn for freedom, and use their power to get it. That will inevitably lead to more bad mages, which will lead to stricter supervision; vicious cycle.
Mages need to be supervised, but not so much that they hate their lives. They should see the Templars not as wardens, but as Guardians. The Tower shouldn't be a prison, but a sanctuary and place of learning.
Do mages deserve freedom? Perhaps. I'm pro-circle, and while I do think the current status of mages in cricles of across Thedas is abborrent, the non-mages of Thedas (the "regular" folk) would have nothing less than mages having some form of association with circles until they are educated on the plight of mages. Here are my ideas which I have posted in another thread at some point in the past:
After just finishing Asunder - it will take a Qunari invasion to make the people trust mages. The only way for them to get the trust of the people in my opinion would be to prove, by their own choosing, to help save Thedas from a threat greater than themselves.
Fortunately - the Qunari have one all lined up methinks.
@TheKomandorShepherd. I must have misread some of your posts earlier. I took you to be making the claim that eradicating all of the mages in thedas was a morally valid action opposed to just a pragmatic action based on your fear of potentially being hurt. To claim that it is a pragmatic action still leaves room for it to be a morally reprehensible solution.
As for your ethical calculus as to who deserves to be insta-killed vs who doesn't. That can be a slippery slope to insta-killing everyone. Bears, tigers, dogs, anyone who may be a threat ...
It doesn't rly matter as i said peoples don't follow morals in matters of survival they do things that are most effective and ensure their survival and stability of their society for their own sake.
Hardly as i said peoples have little reason to hunt down such things as tiger dogs and etc as when it possess certain level of threats it is too low to do such thing at best they are threat to the individual when mages threat goes from local to national ending on world scale threat.
Yes, I've never agreed with group punishment, or locking someone up for what they might do.
I don't mind having schools where mages can go on their own accord starting when they're young, but locking them up and oppressing them is too far. Most mages would probably choose to go to school and learn if they could freely come and go like any other school.
@Aaleel: And what if they don't want to go? Untrained mages are ridiculously dangerous.
After just finishing Asunder - it will take a Qunari invasion to make the people trust mages. The only way for them to get the trust of the people in my opinion would be to prove, by their own choosing, to help save Thedas from a threat greater than themselves.
Fortunately - the Qunari have one all lined up methinks.
Qunari doesn't really pose a threat to the commoners of Thedas though. At least not beyond that their lords will conscript them into fighting.
Qunari doesn't really pose a threat to the commoners of Thedas though. At least not beyond that their lords will conscript them into fighting.
Peasants who have spent their lives shoveling dirt for some lord will find their true role in life. Shoveling dirt for the Qun.
Peasants who have spent their lives shoveling dirt for some lord will find their true role in life. Shoveling dirt for the Qun.
Well it still would be better as qunari at least care for their own nobles not rly.
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