100 réponses à ce sujet

[Yevetha]

It depends how I'm looking at it. If its me in my computer chair recruiting people to go on an adventure or if I just experienced this horrific defeat by these monstrous creatures and am basically running for my life.

 

If the former, probably only Allistar, Leliana, dog and Shale. Possibly Morrigan, but IRL our personalities would clash.

 

If its the later, I'd recruit everyone but Zevahran.  He'd die before he woke up or we'd move on before he came to.  The way I see it, everyone I get on my side can either eliminate a threat to me or take a blow for me.

[sylvanaerie]

You raise a good point. We're all so quick to justify Lelianna but we know she lies to us. And even the story she finally tells us after admitting to lying is another lie. 

 

Aside from Alistair, Wynne, Sigrun, the only reason I can justify recruiting any of them is that the Grey Wardens just aren't picky about what your past is or how you kill Darkspawn. Frankly Loghain is one of the saner choices. You can get enough sense of him at least to feel like he's a pretty safe bet now that he's been defrocked and his only path back to honor is service to you. 

EDIT: And if we're including DA2 characters, Varric and Aveline would be the other safe bets. I could probably take a chance on Isabella too. I get the sense that, like Sigrun, her criminal tendencies will be outweighed by her use as a warrior. I don't see why Oghren is on Team Nope though. He's very manageable. Just keep him away from people you don't want to offend.

 

Possibly because Oghren is a loose canon, and clearly has a lot of anger issues (he is, after all, a berserker warrior).  While I disagree with some of Karach_blade's choices I'd definitely have to put Oghren in that "nope" category as well.  

[Dabrikishaw]

I guess Zevran and Loghain. 

[congokong]

I don't know if we should conclude that Leliana did indeed lie about her backstory when she finally "comes clean" to the warden just because it doesn't coincide with Leliana's Song. Maybe you haven't noticed, but the writers at Bioware have a severe case of the right hand not knowing what the left is doing. Just look at those epilogues for characters like Anders in Awakening and how he's in Kirkwall in DA2. The same inconsistency occurs with Isabela regarding if she killed her husband or not. With both Isabela and Leliana I have to wonder why they would lie? We can headcanon they did to have it make more sense or strongly consider the DA writers just don't know how to handle continuity.

[congokong]

Possibly because Oghren is a loose canon, and clearly has a lot of anger issues (he is, after all, a berserker warrior).  While I disagree with some of Karach_blade's choices I'd definitely have to put Oghren in that "nope" category as well.  

I don't feel he's a "loose canon." Velanna to me is a loose canon. Oghren instead is probably the most poorly written 1-dimensional companion IMO.  There are characters I don't like but acknowledge they contribute much to the story and there are characters I just don't like. Oghren is the latter. He's filled with cliches with his alpha male tendencies on his love of liquor, being horny all the time, seeing emotions as weakness, fart jokes, etc. Everything about him is pretty much on the surface.

 

Back to the "loose canon" thing, I think he would need to have some development to be such. Yeah, he did kill that guy in a duel once which doesn't bode well. His issue seems to be not being able to hold back when he's committed to charge at something; pretty much the definition of a beserker. However, I don't see him flying into a rage and going against orders by attacking someone unnecessarily. He doesn't have any real opinions to go off like that (unlike Leliana with the ashes, Shale with the anvil, etc.) I think nor does he seem quick to anger. That's my psychoanalysis anyway.

[Icy Magebane]

I wouldn't have a problem with Leliana lying to me.  She is a bard, after all.  The only companions I wouldn't recruit are the ones who seem dangerous or unstable.  Leliana is under no obligation to tell me anything about her past and she doesn't seem to have a reason to kill me.  That's good enough.

[dekarserverbot]

I wouldn't have a problem with Leliana lying to me.  She is a bard, after all.  The only companions I wouldn't recruit are the ones who seem dangerous or unstable.  Leliana is under no obligation to tell me anything about her past and she doesn't seem to have a reason to kill me.  That's good enough.

i guess you will be recruiting Varric too. I just recruit bards for their wits, having a weird brain like mine which dabbles between emotional dumbness and brilliant tactician at random times i need someone to hold on me... or i will go "Kamina mode" and die with ease

I don't feel he's a "loose canon." Velanna to me is a loose canon. Oghren instead is probably the most poorly written 1-dimensional companion IMO.  There are characters I don't like but acknowledge they contribute much to the story and there are characters I just don't like. Oghren is the latter. He's filled with cliches with his alpha male tendencies on his love of liquor, being horny all the time, seeing emotions as weakness, fart jokes, etc. Everything about him is pretty much on the surface.

 

Back to the "loose canon" thing, I think he would need to have some development to be such. Yeah, he did kill that guy in a duel once which doesn't bode well. His issue seems to be not being able to hold back when he's committed to charge at something; pretty much the definition of a beserker. However, I don't see him flying into a rage and going against orders by attacking someone unnecessarily. He doesn't have any real opinions to go off like that (unlike Leliana with the ashes, Shale with the anvil, etc.) I think nor does he seem quick to anger. That's my psychoanalysis anyway.

 

I will sound like a brainwashed moron that defends poor writting (no offense meant, just the truth) but i feel that Oghren MACHOiffication (turning him in Bender from futurama) is justified by his hearth being permanently broken. Branka was the only thing he loved, and she is ether gone or morphed into Princess Bubblegum (true evil researcher that gives not a dime for anyone else than herself),

He does extreme sexual comments because he can no longer make love, so he just grips to sex and drinking to be still "alive". If you bring him to the urn of sacred ashes you can understand his own POV more.

Felsi acts as demi-hope for him, but still... Oghren realizes that he can just have sex with her and his child was a mere accident. He shows that he could've been a good father if Branka was full of little Oghrens (and Brankas too) by his "sodding weakness". If the warden is in love with one of the avaible companions (idk if it also works for zevran, never have them both in the same party at the same time) his comments on kissing portraits how much he values true love (at Oghren style, still), he could actually value it more than Lelianna herself.

 

Still this is were poor writting shines: he has no side dialogue options in the dalish NPC romance that you can help with, so my theory would be dismissed with ease as any of the Hawke's choices.

[Lavaeolus]

If you bring him to the urn of sacred ashes you can understand his own POV more.

(from about 1:23)

 

Oghren is a fairly disgusting man, but there's a lot more going on under the table than he lets on. Tears of a clown, all that.

[Ryzaki]

Sten: Giant in cage that killed an entire family? Yeah no thanks

 

Zevran: He tried to kill me nuff said

 

Loghain: Same as Zev

 

Oghren: Creepy lecherous drunk? Yeah no thanks.

 

Shale: Killed previous owner and can't be controlled. I'm gonna have to go no thanks on that one.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I don't know if we should conclude that Leliana did indeed lie about her backstory when she finally "comes clean" to the warden just because it doesn't coincide with Leliana's Song. Maybe you haven't noticed, but the writers at Bioware have a severe case of the right hand not knowing what the left is doing. Just look at those epilogues for characters like Anders in Awakening and how he's in Kirkwall in DA2. The same inconsistency occurs with Isabela regarding if she killed her husband or not. With both Isabela and Leliana I have to wonder why they would lie? We can headcanon they did to have it make more sense or strongly consider the DA writers just don't know how to handle continuity.

While I haven't played that DLC myself, I am given to understand that the reality of what Leiliana is up to is a lot more villainous and malicious than she paints herself as in her version. (And even the stuff she admits to can be creepy.) Not to mention that she doesn't want to explain to anyone with any loyalty to Ferelden (that would certainly include the Human Noble, and might include the Elven Mage, and possibly even the Kirkwall born Human Mage and utterly disenfranchised City Elf) that she was operating in Denerim. I don't know why Isabela might lie (except for fun) but I think Leiliana has her reasons.

 

As for the epilogues, according to the devs that's not so much a case of Right Hand knowing not as the writers not feeling obligated to keep to them. (Which might mean that making most of my characters side with Bhelen might come back to bite me.)

[dekarserverbot]

As for the epilogues, according to the devs that's not so much a case of Right Hand knowing not as the writers not feeling obligated to keep to them. (Which might mean that making most of my characters side with Bhelen might come back to bite me.)

Specially if they go DA2 style... Bhelen could be morphed into Alistair and Alistair into Evil Queen Aeduncan. Hope it doesn't happen again.

[congokong]

While I haven't played that DLC myself, I am given to understand that the reality of what Leiliana is up to is a lot more villainous and malicious than she paints herself as in her version. (And even the stuff she admits to can be creepy.) Not to mention that she doesn't want to explain to anyone with any loyalty to Ferelden (that would certainly include the Human Noble, and might include the Elven Mage, and possibly even the Kirkwall born Human Mage and utterly disenfranchised City Elf) that she was operating in Denerim. I don't know why Isabela might lie (except for fun) but I think Leiliana has her reasons.

 

As for the epilogues, according to the devs that's not so much a case of Right Hand knowing not as the writers not feeling obligated to keep to them. (Which might mean that making most of my characters side with Bhelen might come back to bite me.)

 

What's strange is that Leliana decides to "come clean" without preamble. Why would someone approach you and say you should hear the truth only to lie some more? I believe when they wrote that scene they meant for it to be honest but later retconned it as they often do.

 

As for the epilogues, I'm not sure what's worse; that they don't know how to keep continuity or that they simply don't care.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

What's strange is that Leliana decides to "come clean" without preamble. Why would someone approach you and say you should hear the truth only to lie some more? I believe when they wrote that scene they meant for it to be honest but later retconned it as they often do.

 

As for the epilogues, I'm not sure what's worse; that they don't know how to keep continuity or that they simply don't care.

While what you describe is probably at least part of the story, the fact remains that she's not as far from the events of Leiliana's Song the second time as she is the first, and that the incomplete version of it's events she gives later does give the Warden enough of the truth that he/she understands the later attempt on Leiliana's life. Maybe she was afraid something would come up that would require her to give as much as she did, and thought she'd score some points by volunteering it before it was required?

 

The devs are being careful not to violate any really important decisions, or so they claim anyway. They know doing so would tick off fans. But they apparently always considered the epilogues to be mostly rumor, and stuff to take with a grain of salt.

[Icy Magebane]

As for the epilogues, I'm not sure what's worse; that they don't know how to keep continuity or that they simply don't care.

Well, at least they have the decency to tell us that they flat out do not care what we think about the epilogues.  It's better than lying or trying to justify a retcon IMO.  It still makes them look bad, but I can respect their honesty, at least.

[congokong]

While what you describe is probably at least part of the story, the fact remains that she's not as far from the events of Leiliana's Song the second time as she is the first, and that the incomplete version of it's events she gives later does give the Warden enough of the truth that he/she understands the later attempt on Leiliana's life. Maybe she was afraid something would come up that would require her to give as much as she did, and thought she'd score some points by volunteering it before it was required?

 

The devs are being careful not to violate any really important decisions, or so they claim anyway. They know doing so would tick off fans. But they apparently always considered the epilogues to be mostly rumor, and stuff to take with a grain of salt.

The point is she approaches the pc about telling the truth with "no more lies" and such without preamble only to lie some more. Closer to the truth now or not, if the pc learns later on that she lied again that would kill any potential trust. You think "well, I was closer to the truth the second time" would fly? She'd be better off not saying anything. It's a retcon that you're trying to rationalize.

 

The epilogues being dismissed as "rumors" is retarded and a flimsy excuse for Bioware deciding to change things. It's a "rumor" that Anders stayed at the Vigil for some time, left for 2 months, then returned for the rest of his life when in truth he was at Kirkwall for over 6 years before

Spoiler

blowing up the Chantry to start a worldwide revolution?

No one wants to hear epilogues that are filled with bullshit like its a Mad Lib. "And after the blight the Hero of Ferelden      fill in blank        ." They have no purpose if they aren't reliable.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

The point is she approaches the pc about telling the truth with "no more lies" and such without preamble only to lie some more. Closer to the truth now or not, if the pc learns later on that she lied again that would kill any potential trust. You think "well, I was closer to the truth the second time" would fly? She'd be better off not saying anything. It's a retcon that you're trying to rationalize.

 

The epilogues being dismissed as "rumors" is retarded and a flimsy excuse for Bioware deciding to change things. It's a "rumor" that Anders stayed at the Vigil for some time, left for 2 months, then returned for the rest of his life when in truth he was at Kirkwall for over 6 years before

Spoiler

blowing up the Chantry to start a worldwide revolution?

No one wants to hear epilogues that are filled with bullshit like its a Mad Lib. "And after the blight the Hero of Ferelden      fill in blank        ."

I'm not saying it's entirely smart on her part, nor am I saying that it's what they intended from the start. (Though it could be, since as I've already mentioned there's credible reasons for Leiliana not to tell the whole truth.) I'm just saying that if it's a retcon, it's at least a more believable retcon than, say, the one regarding whether or not Templars truly need lyrium.

 

That said, I think you're overstating the extent to which this was a stupid move on Leiliana's part (if either it was intentional on Bioware's part, or that's how they spin the retcon.) About the only way this could truly screw her over is if something happens to prove to the Warden that she was operating in Denerim. From all I understand, just about everything else in Leiliana's Song she doesn't get into is pretty minor relative to what she's already admitted. And the fact that she's volunteering more of the truth now works to her benefit until that happens. (Especially considering how the Warden might react if she hadn't changed her story before Marjolaine's assassins showed up.)

 

I don't mind the epilogues being rumor as much as you seem to, so "nobody wants to hear" is a bit of an overstatement. (Though I'm not denying it'd be comforting to be more sure that the epilogues for Bhelen are something like the actual truth, since I've been using those to metagame. Still, it's not as if I don't have some saves where I put Harrowmont in charge.)

[Ferretinabun]

I don't know if we should conclude that Leliana did indeed lie about her backstory when she finally "comes clean" to the warden just because it doesn't coincide with Leliana's Song. Maybe you haven't noticed, but the writers at Bioware have a severe case of the right hand not knowing what the left is doing.

 

I only played Leliana's Song once, and it was a long time ago. What about it doesn't square with the story she tells you about her past in Origins?

[Voxr]

In DA:O

Loghain. I have and always will kill him. Yeah he genuinely wanted to save ferelden, but he still did terrible things to his people and put too much at risk.

 

Zev I would probably kill or just tell him to scram. I mean yeah he tried to kill me but it's not like it was personal. Just business. He

 

Everyone else I figure is just one more body in the fight and as long as they're on my side, we don't have to like each other we just have to get it done.

 

DA2

 

Merrill. Nothing against bloodmagic (though irl I guess it would be pretty creepy) I just can't stand how naive she is. Only a fool would put that much trust into something that dangerous. She never seems to fully grasp how much of a risk and danger she is to herself and others. I don't mind blood magic as I don't think it's inherently evil. But if you don't respect the power of a fire, one of these days you'll get burned.

[Asdrubael Vect]

~Origins~

Alistair - recruit, be friend. in my canon always make him a king-puppet of Eamon because he is profitable as a Ruler of Ferelden and Connor can become a king

 

Dog - never recruit, useless and stupid stinky animal what in DA and in IRL die very easily by a knife...i would prefer to have a golem or wyvern

 

Morrigan -recruit, be friend but not trust her and use for my plans even if she would think that she is using me

 

Zevran - in my canon always kill

 

Sten -  i would prefer to kill him because he is Qunari spy...but in my canon i recruit him only because he is profitable as future Arishok, i believe that in future he would become Tal-Vhashot

 

Leliana - in my canon always kill

 

Wynne - recruit, but never listen or respect her and kill her if she go against me

 

Oghren - recruit, be friend

 

Shale - recruit, be friend but i will always save the Golem Forge for the sake of dwarves and Thedas so if i do not have a choice i would kill her to save a forge

 

Loghain - i respect and understand all of his actions to protect his country from Orlais, but i always kill him because there is no another solution..he is become and still would be my and Alister/Eamon/Connor enemy and Anora(i would kill her if we have option) is not be a queen of Ferelden for the sake of Ferelden

 

~Awakenings~

 

Anders -  recruit, be friend

 

Nathaniel - recruit 

 

Velanna -  recruit, be friend want to romance her

 

Sigrun -  recruit, be friend want to romance her

 

Justice - would kill him

 

~DA2~

 

Aveline - recruit

 

Varric - recruit

 

Anders -  recruit, be friend

 

Fenris - would kill him but in my canon always send him with Danarius

 

Isabela - would kill her but in my canon always send her in Tevinter with tome of Koslun

 

Merrill -  recruit, be friend

 

Sebastian - always would kill him if i have a option

 

~DAI~

 

Cassanda-always would kill her if i have a option

 

Cullen-always would kill him if i have a option

 

lelianna-always would kill him if i have a option

 

Cole-always would kill him if i have a option

 

Josephine-i would prefer to kill her because she is Lelianna friend and Antivan, but i recruit her and use her, would never listen or respect her and kill her if she go against me

 

Iron Bull-the same as with Sten i would prefer to kill him but i recruit him and use him before he would betray me for Qunari

 

Viviene-recruit,  but never listen or respect her and kill her if she go against me

 

Dorian- i would prefer to kill him but i recruit him and use him, would never listen or respect him and kill him if he go against me

 

Varrick-recruit

 

Sera-recruit, be friend want to romance her but she is a lesbian

 

Solas-recruit, be friend

 

Blackwall-recruit, be friend

[dekarserverbot]

 

 

I would also kill you,,,

[cJohnOne]

I wouldn't recruit Zevran or Shale.  Zevran tried to kill me and I wouldn't trust him.  Shale is really big and I don't trust her ethically.

 

I would recruit Sten because at the time he is recruited I'd need the muscle for my adventure but recruiting him would turn out badly when he fights me at the village of Haven but in real life he'd just beat me and take over and not end the game.

 

 

I don't have to  mention that I wouldn't recruit Loghain.

[Pateu]

I'd recruit Wynne, Alistair, Leliana and that's about it.

 

They're all fairly good/faithful people and I won't be backstabbed by them.

 

Sten, Zevran and Morrigan on the other hand.... Sten fights you in Haven for leadership, Zevran abandons you to join the crows and Morrigan leaves before the final battle.

 

Worst. Friends. Ever.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Dorian- i would prefer to kill him but i recruit him and use him, would never listen or respect him and kill him if he go against me

 

From all I've heard of the pre-release he's a decent man, worthy of at least some respect. Maybe you can be justified in not trusting him at first because he's a Tevinter Magister, but seriously, he seems like a stand-up guy.

[congokong]

I'm not saying it's entirely smart on her part, nor am I saying that it's what they intended from the start. (Though it could be, since as I've already mentioned there's credible reasons for Leiliana not to tell the whole truth.) I'm just saying that if it's a retcon, it's at least a more believable retcon than, say, the one regarding whether or not Templars truly need lyrium.

 

That said, I think you're overstating the extent to which this was a stupid move on Leiliana's part (if either it was intentional on Bioware's part, or that's how they spin the retcon.) About the only way this could truly screw her over is if something happens to prove to the Warden that she was operating in Denerim. From all I understand, just about everything else in Leiliana's Song she doesn't get into is pretty minor relative to what she's already admitted. And the fact that she's volunteering more of the truth now works to her benefit until that happens. (Especially considering how the Warden might react if she hadn't changed her story before Marjolaine's assassins showed up.)

 

I don't mind the epilogues being rumor as much as you seem to, so "nobody wants to hear" is a bit of an overstatement. (Though I'm not denying it'd be comforting to be more sure that the epilogues for Bhelen are something like the actual truth, since I've been using those to metagame. Still, it's not as if I don't have some saves where I put Harrowmont in charge.)

 I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree about pretty much all of this.