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Women in combat: will DAI have proportional (~20% female soldiers, ~50% female mages) numbers of female enemies?


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#401
Samahl

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Dragons are magical creatures. Not every human has magic. I mean, what's the mage population in Ferelden? A tower? Give or take a few dozen apostates?

 

Why are you assuming a dragon's ability to fly is fueled by magic? And what about giant spiders, then?



#402
Fredward

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Naturally. Which is why I said EXCEPTIONAL women would have place in the army.

 

But why would you spend enchantments on an average woman, which is, by laws of biology, weaker than the average male? It would just be a waste of resources and a bad tactical decision.

 

So you're not against there being female generic enemies?

 

And dude, if we assume that raw physical strength is not the prime requirement for being an effective soldier and it's stuff more along the lines of being able to follow orders, reasoning ability under pressure, being cool with stabbing things and etc it kinda makes sense for there to be a close to [or equal] amount of female soldiers. Unless you think women are less inclined to think this way. And in a setting where they [generally] aren't treated like delicate flowers there's very little reason for them not to think in such a way. And if a woman places as much emphasis on being physically equal to her male counterparts I imagine she can get her own gear enchanted. Depending on how much it costs ofc. And a soldier's salary, But minutiae.


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#403
Rawgrim

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Dragons ARE magical creatures, though. He is right about that bit.



#404
WildOrchid

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Agility/Flexibility.

 

Women's gymnastics has always been more popular than men's.

 

I personally think women would make much better scouts since smaller frames = better at not being seen and flexibility means they can reach better vantage points.

 

So, in game, women would have better stats as rogues/archers and mages (i think?) than warriors?

 

Edit: what's your opinion on women wielding smaller swords, like those ancient greek ones and still being warriors without wielding two handed swords?



#405
leaguer of one

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Opinion.

 

When I see a dwarf dual wielding massive greataxes, I'll treat it as fact.

 

 

 

 

Not even qunari do that.



#406
Silfren

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I would like there to be a reasonable balance between genders of npc's and enemies.

 

To respond to the 18/19 ratio comment above me quite a ways: no one is seriously saying that. It's not about carefully measuring out numbers; it's about not forgetting diversity exists (given context). If there's some reason the enemies should be mostly (or all) male or female (like the Silent Sisters or those assassins in Hightown in Act 2), that's fine.

 

That's just it.  Nobody said it in this thread, and nobody EVER says it anywhere else...except for, you know, the guys who have an ulterior motive in ridiculing the very idea.  THAT is the ONLY time, and I do mean the ONLY time, that the notion of 50/50 exactitude EVER comes up.  You'd think that they might have a problem with the reality that people actually *ARE* asking for, the way they have this compulsive need to mock it and screech about political correctness.  Funny how the sentiment tends to usually come from the very people who have never had to worry about inclusion a day in their lives.


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#407
Samahl

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Dragons ARE magical creatures, though. He is right about that bit.

 

That doesn't mean they use magic to fly. What's the point of them having wings otherwise?



#408
Altima Darkspells

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I'm saying it is natural to see more NPC MALE WARRIORS than FEMALES due to the MALE gender having BIOLOGICAL advantages that make them better WARRIORS.[/font][/color][/background]


And I'm saying that it's more entertaining if there was more than a passing interest in equal representation.

I promise the world won't end if there's more girls in video games.

Heck, with the reaction most publishers seem to think, I'm surprised that BioWare hasn't created a He-man-woman-hater mode, where all girls are turned to men, much like their Story Mode in ME3 that made combat irrelevant.

Actually, I would love that feature. Release it as DLC, BioWare!

#409
Wulfram

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Not even qunari do that.

 

I assume he means

 

arishok.png


Even if it's sword + axe



#410
Rawgrim

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That doesn't mean they use magic to fly. What's the point of them having wings otherwise?

 

The wings\magic makes it easier? Dunno. They are described as being magical creatures, though.



#411
Deflagratio

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Even Tolkien described dwarves as having very powerful bodies and thicker bones. They were also described as being very strong. I am guessing this is the case in dragon age too.

 

 

Their shorter limbs give them far less leverage though, which means comparatively they're probably not much stronger than humans, and pale in comparison to Qunari.

 

The flip side is that less leverage output means less leverage put in by by the weight of a weapon (Try holding a weight at arm's length, then half length and feel the difference), so if any race could theoretically dual wield ridiculous heavy weapons, it would be the Dwarves.


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#412
ManchesterUnitedFan1

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Pateu, you seem to think that everything in life is one of two things: average or exceptional.

You think that, since based on averages women are weaker than men, then if there is a woman who is stronger than a man then she is EXCEPTIONAL.

No. It means she's unusual, or not an average woman.

Saying it's exceptional goes way way too far, it implies that 99.99999999% of women are weaker than 100% of men, and so 0.00000001% women are stronger.

It's more likely the case that 95% of women are weaker than 95% of men. And, since 5% of women on the planet is still a HUMUNGOUS number, they shouldn't be considered rare exceptions.
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#413
leaguer of one

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I assume he means

 

arishok.png

Even if it's sword + axe

1. That a HAND sword  and HAND axe.

 

2.That's no different then this.

2i6i0j6.jpg

 

What the aroshok has are not 2 handed weapons. 



#414
InfinitePaths

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Having random generic lackys who you kill to be women is actually very important.

 

It shows that people, even thoose you don't talk with(in fact, sometimes people you fight), are both men and women.

 

While I am sure that Bioware will make a completely fair representation since they are awesome I am astonished that some people on this thread can be so...close mined(eh, for  lack of a better word).

 

I am baffled by the fact that some men(and even some women) say that it is wrong to kill women in video games since it is not morally right to kill/fight women as males.The claim is completely sexist, even if on a subconcious level.

 

In a completely non-sexist world where both genders were equal men would have no problem fighting and killing female enemies just as they would have no problem fighting and killing male enemies.It is practically the same thing besides minor differences in body type


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#415
Rawgrim

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Their shorter limbs give them far less leverage though, which means comparatively they're probably not much stronger than humans, and pale in comparison to Qunari.

 

The flip side is that less leverage output means less leverage put in by by the weight of a weapon (Try holding a weight at arm's length, then half length and feel the difference), so if any race could theoretically dual wield ridiculous heavy weapons, it would be the Dwarves.

 

Probably right. But I suspect the Qunari will get a higher STR bonus than the other races in DA:I. We haven't seen their stats in the earlier games. Starting stats, anyway.



#416
Pateu

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Not even qunari do that.

 

http://37.media.tumb...1hjuro1_500.jpg

 

 

So, in game, women would have better stats as rogues/archers and mages (i think?) than warriors?

 

As in Oblivion, yes.

 

Strength defficiency, Agility boost.

 

what's your opinion on women wielding smaller swords, like those ancient greek ones and still being warriors without wielding two handed swords?

 

The same as before.

 

They -CAN- do it. In times of war, you may conscript women out of necessity. But my point was that taking a woman footman over a male ( assuming they are equally skilled ) makes little sense, because the male has better qualities to be a footman.

 

A scout? I'd go with the woman.

 

Mages are the same.



#417
Silfren

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Personally I'm okay with a smaller amount of generic female enemies because at that time there were much fewer female fighters than there were male. However, this is coming from a white, male, heterosexual who comes from an English speaking, first world country so I might not be the best person to ask if representation is fair.

 

"That time"?  What time?

 

1) the DA world does not correlate to any real world time, so charges of "it makes sense because this is how things were like at that time," is a nonsensical claim to begin with.

 

2) The DA world is already shown to be radically different than any real world period anyway.  Even if you could argue (from a technological standpoint, say) that there is a correlation to a real world era, that would remain irrelevant because the canonical lore of DA already establishes that it lacks the same real-world ideas about gender roles.  

 

3) Women have ALWAYS fought in greater numbers than people nowadays want to admit. Many of our ideas of "women didn't DO that back then, and any who did were purely exceptions to the rule," are based on misconceptions.  This is not to claim that women have always fought in every way, shape, and form, in equal numbers and on equal terms as men, but it is TOTALLY false to claim that women fighting has only ever been a noteworthy exception.  There have been plenty of cultures throughout the world, and throughout various ages in history, where women fought in numbers far too large for any modern twit to dismiss as just exceptions to the rule.


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#418
tmp7704

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I assume he means
 
(arishok)

Even if it's sword + axe

These looks like regular one hand weapons to me, though. Regular by DA ridiculously oversized standards, ofc, but just the same. If they were two handed weapons, each would be at least as long as Arishok is tall.

#419
Pateu

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You think that, since based on averages women are weaker than men, then if there is a woman who is stronger than a man then she is EXCEPTIONAL. 

No. It means she's unusual

 

ex·cep·tion·al  (ibreve.gifk-sebreve.gifpprime.gifshschwa.gif-nschwa.gifl)

adj.
1. Being an exception; uncommon.


#420
ManchesterUnitedFan1

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This thread needs to die.


I think it does, although hopefully we'll receive a comment by the dev allaying the fears raised such that the topic won't just resurface.

#421
leaguer of one

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Again. No different then this.

 

2i6i0j6.jpg

 

Try again.

And those are not massive axes.

This is.

item_pack-02-warrior.jpg



#422
Rawgrim

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The dexterity stat is abit off, though. Since it means more physical agility equals better aim with ranged weapons. Being flexible doesn't mean you can shoot better than someone who is not flexible. Simple as that.



#423
Pateu

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because the canonical lore of DA already establishes that it lacks the same real-world ideas about gender roles.  

 

No, it doesn't. Leliana even tells you a story of how Aveline was Joan of Arc'd for competing in a tournament.

 

3) Women have ALWAYS fought in greater numbers than people nowadays want to admit.

 

That's a vague statement and means next to nothing.



#424
ManchesterUnitedFan1

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ex·cep·tion·al(ibreve.gifk-sebreve.gifpprime.gifshschwa.gif-nschwa.gifl)
adj.

1. Being an exception; uncommon.

You're saying 'exceptional' isn't a much stronger version of 'uncommon'?

Definitions as evidence are nebulous at best, as they need to use existing words to describe words which will always be imperfect.

Think about it: if i said me eating meat is uncommon, versus me eating meat is exceptional, which implies I more rarely eat meat?


You need to think about tone and what you've actually learned by being around people using English, not just what an online dictionary you googled tells you.
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#425
Elhanan

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Do not require pics of exceptions, as the Arishock himself is such an example. Not all Quanari are as strong as their leader.

But this thread is about the role of women as opponents, and the lore should be utilized for this.