623 réponses à ce sujet

[The Night Haunter]

Just caught up. That was a riot.

 

So, what I'm getting from the dissenters is that they have an issue with women being equally (or in the case of this thread, 10%-20%) represented on the battle field because they consider it to be unrealistic given the biological differences between genders.

 

I suppose my main question would be why does that matter?

 

We're not talking about the real world here. We're talking about a fantasy world in which according to the lore, genders are equally represented in various military factions, and so the in game fights should (for harmony's sake, representation is the fun awesome side effect) reflect that. Biology really has nothing to do with it because even if it was acknowledged by people in world (it's not, which leads me to believe women and men in Thedas have the same physical capabilities), their society is the decider, not their biology.

 

The thing that really blows my mind here is that the OP isn't even suggesting an equal split, they're suggesting a minority percentage and people still think that's unrealistic.

A lot of Min/Maxers can't really get out of the mindset 'Set A gets +1 over Set B, so who on earth would take Set B', despite the fact that the +1 bonus is an illusion they concocted themselves, and real world (or even 'real' Thedas) conditions rarely allow a nation to be super picky about their military, since its often win or die (in Thedas at least).

[Allan Schumacher]

The thing that really blows my mind here is that the OP isn't even suggesting an equal split, they're suggesting a minority percentage and people still think that's unrealistic.

 

And possibly a number that is less than what we saw in Ostagar.

[Pateu]

Stop beating the dead horse. We agreed to disagree.

 

But my stance still stands. Bioware's tendency to be politically correct harms the immersion of its world and I am starting to see why The Witcher series is much more appreciated than DA.

 

Despite being more bland/generic, it still has plenty realism that doesn't get conveniently hand waved with '' Magic '' or '' Fantasy Setting. Ain't gotta explain ****. ''

 

And this is my final post on the matter.

[Elhanan]

Stop beating the dead horse. We agreed to disagree.

Would be fine, except....
 

But my stance still stands. Bioware's tendency to be politically correct harms the immersion of its world and I am starting to see why The Witcher series is much more appreciated than DA.
 
Despite being more bland, it still has plenty realism that doesn't get conveniently hand waved with '' Magic '' or '' Fantasy Setting. Ain't gotta explain ****. ''

Biased opinion does not equate to fact. And Thedas =/= TW world design, whatever that may be; apple does not equal to an orange.

[BabyFratelli]

Stop beating the dead horse. We agreed to disagree.

 

But my stance still stands. Bioware's tendency to be politically correct harms the immersion of its world and I am starting to see why The Witcher series is much more appreciated than DA.

 

Despite being more bland, it still has plenty realism that doesn't get conveniently hand waved with '' Magic '' or '' Fantasy Setting. Ain't gotta explain ****. ''

 

I'd prefer to beat the horse relentlessly to a pulp until you change your mind, but you don't have to argue with me. My post was directed at anyone who wants to keep the discussion going. If that's not you, don't respond. 

[leaguer of one]

Hmm. Female regular darkspawn...is that possible?

No. And thinking about it any more would be horrible.

[leaguer of one]

Stop beating the dead horse. We agreed to disagree.

 

But my stance still stands. Bioware's tendency to be politically correct harms the immersion of its world and I am starting to see why The Witcher series is much more appreciated than DA.

 

Despite being more bland/generic, it still has plenty realism that doesn't get conveniently hand waved with '' Magic '' or '' Fantasy Setting. Ain't gotta explain ****. ''

 

And this is my final post on the matter.

No. It's does not. This is a world with it own rules, history and concepts. They can make the rules of the world what ever they want to be because it's their  world story.

Dragon age is not a parody or a satri to our world so it does not have to have our issues.

 

The thing you are not getting is that the  average attributes and the min and max of these attribute of men and woman don't stop them from being soldiers. It's how they use these attribute. People keep telling you this and you seem to not get it.

[InfinitePaths]

Stop beating the dead horse. We agreed to disagree.

 

But my stance still stands. Bioware's tendency to be politically correct harms the immersion of its world and I am starting to see why The Witcher series is much more appreciated than DA.

 

Despite being more bland/generic, it still has plenty realism that doesn't get conveniently hand waved with '' Magic '' or '' Fantasy Setting. Ain't gotta explain ****. ''

 

And this is my final post on the matter.

 

You have to consider that amongst the people who actually enjoy the witcher for it's storytelling, setting and combat there is a large majority of people who play the witcher for boobs and the fantasy of being an alpha male monster hunter primarily consisted of straight male guys ranging from 13 to 30 years of age A.K.A majority of the internet.

 

Anyhow, I'm glad Bioware's going with this route of equal gender representation in armies, I still haven't seen an counter-argument that has any plausability regarding the matter, everyone's just drawing parrallells with the current society and european millitary history.Biologically, the two genders are almost the same

[JadePrince]

As far as I know, there's no in game evidence that proves that women in Thedas are any weaker than men, nor are they any apparent gender role/societal roadblocks to women becoming soldiers or templars (never heard any in game reference to it other than female grey wardens being uncommon, which was never attributed to women being 'inferior"). So why would there be any question of at least 1 in 5 soldiers being women?

 

Anyway, it's a moot point because (I'll say it one more time here) the developers ARE taking steps to make sure women are represented in NPC fighting groups and elsewhere in populating Thedas because they understand it's important to question the idea of 'male' as default not only in terms of the player but also the faces that fill out the game world. David Gaider said this, in person, to a room full of people at GaymerX. I have no reason to believe he was lying.

 

So whether the naysayers here think it's 'unrealistic' to have women soldiers or not doesn't matter. Bioware obviously doesn't value living up to these folks' idea of what 'realism' should be.

 

Isn't it funny how those people who think this conversation is "unimportant" are the ones who have stuck around the longest and argued the hardest? Lucky for me the 'block' feature exists. 

[andy6915]

This certainly frames the OP's request in a different light.  Thank you.

 

You're welcome? That's why I said a 50/50 split would disagree with the lore, I was mentally using Ostagar as my idea of what the gender ratio was in Ferelden armies. Women soldiers are common in Ostagar, but not at the same numbers men were. And seeing as that was the king's army, it's a pretty important army. Important enough that I'm comfortable considering that as the baseline ratios for genders, at least as far as dog country is concerned.

[cindercatz]

I'm someone that typically prefers a good deal of realism, so to me those concerns have weight. But.. The real world thing is kind of skewed, honestly. There have *always* been women warriors, even if there are suredly plenty of cultures that have dissueded it. Just generally speaking, I don't see a real world reason to think female combatants in DA should be rare. Basic combat in general should be more stylistically (and statistically, this being an RPG franchise) complex, in my ideal version, and realistically different combatants would tend to train and arm themselves in ways that emphasize their strengths and help cover for whatever disadvantages they might have, but that's a gender neutral concern. There are times in history where females would typically be trained in different weapons, but there's no hard and fast rule there. It would be odd to see spindly characters using particularly heavy weapons to me, but there's nothing compelling me to build a character like that, and there's not really any advantage encouraging it.

 

I support the OP's general idea (1 in 5-10 human combatants generally, and more female townsfolk realistically), and I guess more pertinent to what we actually see in DA, the idea of female members of other dimorphic species being represented more equally as with the troll example. It always makes the virtual world just that much more real when the various creatures in your environment are more convincingly portrayed, including gender representation. I'd argue also that typically the female ratio among elven and dwarven combat npcs should probably be greater considering the lore. Dalish practice more of a pure meritocracy, and a dwarf of a warrior caste is a warrior regardless of gender, even if it's a sexist society in other ways. It may not be the biggest deal, but these things add to the whole package. Just my two cents.

[cronshaw]

What data? 

 

I criticised saying women make up half the planet when that's irrelevant to the amount of women that play dragon age.

 

I wasn't aware 3.6 billion women play games and want Dragon Age to have more women.

 

Because that's how ridiculous what you said is.

 

Women may make up roughly 51% of the population, but the women that play games are way less than the men that do ( and before you link me that stupid study which treats mobile apps as games... don't. Pretty sure it's made in the US, too. )

yes but then you go on to mention how many more men play video games 

which is equally as irrelevant to the discussion

[DaySeeker]

Is this the same as the thread that was closed down?

 

I'll say again, in DA gender has nothing to do with ability or profession (outside certain cultures like the Qun).  DA has put women and men in the same roles from the bottom to the top, in fact, women have mostly been national or cultural leaders.  We have seen female thugs, mages, soldier, templars, the only place that we may not have seen equal representation is in the monster/beast realm, but then how would we know?  Why is this coming up?  It looks like it is just to start a fight.  This has not been a problem with Bioware games in general and DA games specifically. If this is based on the demo it is over reaction, the demo showed a bear fight (looked like a girl bear to me), a dragon fight, demons without any discernable gender. a male mage and his son(?) and some human baddies covered in armor that could have been either gender.  No cause for complaint as far as I'm concerned.   

[Maria Caliban]

It was locked and then unlocked. Another thread was locked and unlocked today as well.

I have no idea why.

[Deflagratio]

I think they get temp-locked during Allan's thread Inquisitions (couldn't resist) and unlocked if the thread is salvageable. Otherwise it's banished to the depths of hell.

[The Hierophant]

You have to consider that amongst the people who actually enjoy the witcher for it's storytelling, setting and combat there is a large majority of people who play the witcher for boobs and the fantasy of being an alpha male monster hunter primarily consisted of straight male guys ranging from 13 to 30 years of age A.K.A majority of the internet.

This is a nice no fact backed generalisation.

[The Hierophant]

Plus, this thread? Why?

[MrMrPendragon]

You have to consider that amongst the people who actually enjoy the witcher for it's storytelling, setting and combat there is a large majority of people who play the witcher for boobs and the fantasy of being an alpha male monster hunter primarily consisted of straight male guys ranging from 13 to 30 years of age A.K.A majority of the internet.

 

Anyhow, I'm glad Bioware's going with this route of equal gender representation in armies, I still haven't seen an counter-argument that has any plausability regarding the matter, everyone's just drawing parrallells with the current society and european millitary history. Biologically, the two genders are almost the same

 

I play the Witcher for the story and gameplay. I don't actively seek nudity and boobs in the Witcher series, but when it comes up, I say "woah that's pretty awesome" and proceed to appreciate their appearance. Does that make me a bad guy? I don't think so.

 

On-topic, I've already said what's on my mind, but I just have to ask, if we're not asking for an even 50-50 or close to that, isn't the current amount ok already? There were clearly female enemies, named and fodder-class.

 

Is this going to be a trial and error thing? Each installment we look and decide if there's enough "representation" (in the killable npc side of the game) for people of all gender-roles, because clearly there's no specific amount we're aiming towards. We're just kinda using our guts to decide.

[KBomb]

We have seen such a small portion of Inquisition. I would suggest that the "arguing" wait until the game is out and the ratio can at least be measured.

Discussing is great, but arguing the point until you're frenzied is pointless when there most likely is no reason to even be concerned in the first place. It's like complaining about the dryness of the bread when it hasn't been baked yet.

[KBomb]

Isn't it funny how those people who think this conversation is "unimportant" are the ones who have stuck around the longest and argued the hardest? Lucky for me the 'block' feature exists.

Well, I would assume a lot of them are still here because people are engaging in discussion with them. I have seen some even ask someone a question, then make another reply just to remind them to answer the question. You can't want them to leave, offer them a seat and then complain that they haven't taken the hint to go.

[Samahl]

Well, I would assume a lot of them are still here because people are engaging in discussion with them. I have seen some even ask someone a question, then make another reply just to remind them to answer the question. You can't want them to leave, offer them a seat and then complain that they haven't taken the hint to go.

 

In that case, it was because the thread was moving quickly, and I knew it was easy for posts to get skipped over in the crush. I only bothered because I knew he was still around in the first place.

[JadePrince]

Well, I would assume a lot of them are still here because people are engaging in discussion with them. I have seen some even ask someone a question, then make another reply just to remind them to answer the question. You can't want them to leave, offer them a seat and then complain that they haven't taken the hint to go.

 

Maybe some were engaging them, but I did not "offer that them a seat". In fact, I blocked the posts of the person you're referencing because once they started going on and on about the 'superiority' of men, that's when they became too hostile and mean-spirited for me to handle. *shrug* 

[Mornmagor]

Stop beating the dead horse. We agreed to disagree.

 

But my stance still stands. Bioware's tendency to be politically correct harms the immersion of its world and I am starting to see why The Witcher series is much more appreciated than DA.

 

Despite being more bland/generic, it still has plenty realism that doesn't get conveniently hand waved with '' Magic '' or '' Fantasy Setting. Ain't gotta explain ****. ''

 

And this is my final post on the matter.

 

I thought their world was more ideal from ours, maybe because it didn't even need the political correctness, because everyone is represented equally by default, and they have the time to shine. It's everyone's world, where anyone gets to feel at home and not singled out, and not discriminated like it happens to ours most of the time.

 

What the heck is wrong with people not wanting to be left out, for once? They need to be singled out so your immersion is not ruined?

 

Witcher doesn't even let people play a female character, is that why it's "better"?

 

Edit: Obviously, i'm talkiing about the player, not the in-game character. People need to enjoy what they play.

[KBomb]

Maybe some were engaging them, but I did not "offer that them a seat". In fact, I blocked the posts of the person you're referencing because once they started going on and on about the 'superiority' of men, that's when they became too hostile and mean-spirited for me to handle. *shrug*

"You" was being used as a general term and not directed at you personally.

You expressed surprise that some were still here and I told you a probable as to why that was.

[JadePrince]

"You" was being used as a general term and not directed at you personally.

You expressed surprise that some were still here and I told you a probable as to why that was.

 

Alright, that's valid. Thanks for clarifying. I do rather think at this point that there are some in this thread who would be better off ignored so as to keep the conversation more civil.