623 réponses à ce sujet

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

do you have a source for that statistic?

Ugh I'm really annoyed at myself: I mixed up the illegality statistic with the death statstic.

However homosexuality being illegal is still horrific.

Homosexuality is illegal in 81 countries http://76crimes.com/...ity-is-illegal/

In most you are just thrown in jail, often for life. In ten of them you are killed.

Apologies, but it doesn't really harm my argument. Homosexuality being illegal is terrible.

At least in this modern age you can't just e thrown in jail because you're Asian or because you're female.

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

Ignore the Trolls. If you feel this is important than that's all it needs keep on talking about it and the Mods will deal with the Trolls.

Thanks, I'm trying

Just issues of sexism and homophobia are particularly close to my heart for various reasons I shan't go into.

[Gorthaur the Cruel]

I'd rather see female enemies only where it makes sense, and not just having them included for equal representation.

 

The equal representation of female warriors in video games is just ridiculous to me. Being that women are the physically weaker sex, I have a hard time imagining that many women would want to go head to head with a physically fit male, and fantasy or no, my own preference is for the game to be as grounded in reality as possible.

 

I like seeing the Brienne of Tarth types, who at least look the part, but most of the women in Dragon Age look like runway supermodels.

[Illyria God King of the Primordium]

Kind of why I specifically said those things, but I also point out that women have equal range in DA:I so far. Male characters as well have the same personality range,  Iron Bull for all intents and purposes, sounds like a total ****! Personally I don't think promiscuity (form either gender) itself is a personality defect though so maybe my approach is different.

 

Now, if Iron Bull's promiscuity were to be portrayed as a virtue, while Sera's (Hypothetical, for all we know she could be very Chaste) promiscuity was vilified, we have an possible issue of sexism. Which would be much the same of our real world Men-Women sexual double standard.

 

The lesson of the day is Context Matters.

 

 

 

Of course, which is why I said we should learn more about enemy factions before declaring sexism, but there's already a degree of precedent.

 

 

 

 

Aside from Dwarven society right? I mean, you're either born into your caste or have to marry into another caste. That's one of the most disgusting societies ever imagined, placing no value on the individual's free will. And I love Dragon Age: Origins for exploring it.

 

It doesn't have to be a 1:1 translation of history to still have the same validity by the way.

Indeed - I agree perfectly with your point.  Context is what is important - I was simply pointing out how easy it would be (given the information we currently have available) for the game to go either way.  Being a suspicious, pessimistic sort, I imagined the worst.  I applaud you for your optimism, but despite my trust in Bioware I can see why others may not see things as cheerfully.  

 

Also, good point about the dwarves - it's horrifying, and that's kinda the point, but spacedinosaurus was also correct in pointing out that the DA world doesn't entirely reflect actual history - hell, most historical books and movies fail at that.  

[Illyria God King of the Primordium]

I'd rather see female enemies only where it makes sense, and not just having them included for equal representation.

 

The equal representation of female warriors in video games is just ridiculous to me. Being that women are the physically weaker sex, I have a hard time imagining that many women would want to go head to head with a physically fit male, and fantasy or no, my own preference is for the game to be as grounded in reality as possible.

 

I like seeing the Brienne of Tarth types, who at least look the part, but most of the women in Dragon Age look like runway supermodels.

Yeah - much as I'd like to see female mobs, I'd prefer to see more female mobs that look realistic.  Why was my 40+ strength Hawke still willowy thin with tiny arms?  Why was my FemShep so slender when she beat Vega at pullups (though that could be explained with 'lolCerberuscybernetics' to be fair)?  At least my Aeducan Warden looked fairly muscular, but that seemed to be more 'because dwarf' than 'because 65 strength and counting'.  

 

That's another off topic thing that I want - body type changes depending on attribute allocation.  If I have 80 ****** strength, I should look like Arnold Schwarznegger.  

[Roamingmachine]

This thread title... Whoo boy. Glad the content was different than what I feared
Honestly, I couldn't really tell the men and women apart in past DA games. Too busy killing. Sometimes I could pick them out but mostly they were all just walking suits of armor or robes. Shouldn't be too hard to randomly generate the random mobs I think?

Now if the women fight like women, then I will be impressed. I would rather face 3 men bigger than me rather than a woman who has whipped herself in to a frenzy. Inside every woman there is a bloody reaver waiting to get out...and I love you ladies for it

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

I'd rather see female enemies only where it makes sense, and not just having them included for equal representation.
 
The equal representation of female warriors in video games is just ridiculous to me. Being that women are the physically weaker sex, I have a hard time imagining that many women would want to go head to head with a physically fit male, and fantasy or no, my own preference is for the game to be as grounded in reality as possible.
 
I like seeing the Brienne of Tarth types, who at least look the part, but most of the women in Dragon Age look like runway supermodels.

I'd rather see female enemies only where it makes sense, and not just having them included for equal representation.
 
The equal representation of female warriors in video games is just ridiculous to me. Being that women are the physically weaker sex, I have a hard time imagining that many women would want to go head to head with a physically fit male, and fantasy or no, my own preference is for the game to be as grounded in reality as possible.
 
I like seeing the Brienne of Tarth types, who at least look the part, but most of the women in Dragon Age look like runway supermodels.

I'm asking for appropriate proportions not equal ones. I would like 10-20% of enemies to be female, I don think that's too ridiculous.



But conversely, since more men will be out fighting, this should mean that there are
more female villagers and townsfolk than male ones, logically.

[leaguer of one]

If someone's screaming  at you while charging as they get ready to kill you with weapon in hand, are you going to notice if they are a man or a woman or even care?

[Deflagratio]

I'm asking for appropriate proportions not equal ones. I would like 10-20% of enemies to be female, I don think that's too ridiculous.



But conversely, since more men will be out fighting, this should mean that there are
more female villagers and townsfolk than male ones, logically.

 

Well that makes sense. Personally I think the only reason why enemies wouldn't be something like 50%M/F is because of memory (Almost typed Mammary, Freudian slip!) reasons. As in, having both males and females in a particular encounter would boost the memory imprint, as opposed to having just 100% of one or the other.

 

That's taking the assumption that "Generic" enemies don't use companion assets though. (As in, companion's body type)

[Joseph Warrick]

I thought we were killing mostly skeletons and things this time.

 

Killing people makes the game look bad, especially for DA2 because you're in a city, not in a battlefield. It felt like a mismatch of story and gameplay to me when you spend years killing hundreds of citizens and noone cares. You can even bring the captain of the guard with you to kill a nobleman, she does nothing. This works for darkspawn, zombies and "Creatures" in general but not for people.

 

So don't add women, remove men instead.

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

Well that makes sense. Personally I think the only reason why enemies wouldn't be something like 50%M/F is because of memory (Almost typed Mammary, Freudian slip!) reasons. As in, having both males and females in a particular encounter would boost the memory imprint, as opposed to having just 100% of one or the other.
 
That's taking the assumption that "Generic" enemies don't use companion assets though. (As in, companion's body type)

The memory thing hasn't held them back in other DA titles, why should it now?

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

If someone's screaming  at you while charging as they get ready to kill you with weapon in hand, are you going to notice if they are a man or a woman or even care?

In real life? No.

In a game which can reveal a lot about the social attitudes in our society and of the company making the game? Hell yes!

[Roamingmachine]

Being that women are the physically weaker sex, I have a hard time imagining that many women would want to go head to head with a physically fit male, and fantasy or no, my own preference is for the game to be as grounded in reality as possible.
 
I like seeing the Brienne of Tarth types, who at least look the part, but most of the women in Dragon Age look like runway supermodels.

Combat is not a strongman competition. Raw strength is helpful, but things like tactical sense, experience, skill, endurance and sheer bloody-minded viciousness are as useful and less situational. Most women will not make the cut but neither will most men. Combat, regardless of form, requires the kind of mindset that few (thankfully) have.

I do agree though that women warriors should look the part physically. I still cringe at the image of my femshep doing pull ups >.<

[Allan Schumacher]

Well no, SJW describes people who actively seek to attack others over issues they know little to nothing about and they generally don't care about not upsetting others. They only care about being the most progressive and the most tolerant, it's an ego thing. As far as I can tell nobody in this thread in one because a SJW would just be ranting about how sexist and racist bioware is. 

 

But seriously, true SJW's are some of the most horrible people I have ever come across and I am speaks as someone who has very progressive views for the most part. 

 

Much the same way that feminist gets used as a disparaging term universally, so does SJW.  I have been called one on this very forum (and people have taken it to other places like Twitter to accuse me of it as well).  As such, the term is a pejorative and I'm not particularly keen on its usage because it's typically not necessary.

 

 

More generally, I'm cleaning up the thread now in case people want to edit their posts, btw....

[Deflagratio]

The memory thing hasn't held them back in other DA titles, why should it now?

 

Each game is case-by-case basis really. Hell, each encounter. If maybe they think they can create a better encounter by freeing up the memory by limited the resources given to unique model types (IE, only Females in a particular encounter) then that's the call they'll probably make.

 

I could be wrong and this might not even be an issue too, I'm just making assumptions here.

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

Each game is case-by-case basis really. Hell, each encounter. If maybe they think they can create a better encounter by freeing up the memory by limited the resources given to unique model types (IE, only Females in a particular encounter) then that's the call they'll probably make.
 
I could be wrong and this might not even be an issue too, I'm just making assumptions here.

What if specific enemy types were based on sex and were not randomised eg phantoms in me3 being always female, would that help?

[mikeymoonshine]

Much the same way that feminist gets used as a disparaging term universally, so does SJW.  I have been called one on this very forum (and people have taken it to other places like Twitter to accuse me of it as well).  As such, the term is a pejorative and I'm not particularly keen on its usage because it's typically not necessary.

 

 

More generally, I'm cleaning up the thread now in case people want to edit their posts, btw....

 

I rarely use the term to be honest, I only mentioned it because it was being thrown around allot in this thread. Those kinds of people I described are people I would usually just ignore rather than create beef with.  I guess you are right it is becoming somewhat of a generic insult towards anyone who is a bit progressive though. 

 

That in itself makes it a rather useless term though because if you are just shutting people down by insulting them or shoving them into groups then you are behaving in exactly the same way as the people who would traditionally be called SJW's.

[Deflagratio]

What if specific enemy types were based on sex and were not randomised eg phantoms in me3 being always female, would that help?

 

I could be wrong, but I don't think that would work. Basically each "Actor" in an encounter is a group of attributes like their AI and visual assets. Having two enemies with the same AI (IE, Class and behavior) but different visual assets (IE: Male and Female assets) have a different memory imprint than having everything the same. Where as having an entirely new unit/actor has an even larger memory imprint.

 

So if you can have five totally unique actors in an encounter, you might be able to push it to 7 by making them all the same gender (Assuming all are the same race), or up to 10 by having everything the same behavior/class/visual assets. (numbers aren't necessarily representative of the actual impact)

[Amaror]

Ugh, it's getting a bit weird now.

I know i am a bit suicidal with this opinion, since the first one to voice it allready got screamed down.

But is this really that important an issue? Don't get me wrong i am all for more female characters in games, but the OP specifically asks for GENERIC female npcs. You know, the ones not a single person cares about. 

Ok, so apparently from what i read here DA 2 and Skyrim had an equal representation of genders with "generic rogue 2054".

I played both games. Skyrim for a rediculous amount of hours and i didn't even notice. 

Don't get me wrong it is kind of weird that this kind of thing isn't industry standart right now and i support that this should be embraced.

But i honestly I care way more about the main characters. When the main characters of the story are well represented and characterised i couldn't care less whether enemy number 3956 is male or female.

[javeart]

I have no idea what the ratios could be in DAO and DA 2, but to be honest, I never felt it was too unbalanced. It's true though that that's the kind of thing that you could overlook easily just because you're just used to it  . Still, I'm not really worried about it, and I really think it'll be ok.

 

edit: and I do think it's important, even if only because it adds to the default=male equation.

[Neon Rising Winter]

Ugh, it's getting a bit weird now.

I know i am a bit suicidal with this opinion, since the first one to voice it allready got screamed down.

But is this really that important an issue? Don't get me wrong i am all for more female characters in games, but the OP specifically asks for GENERIC female npcs. You know, the ones not a single person cares about. 

Ok, so apparently from what i read here DA 2 and Skyrim had an equal representation of genders with "generic rogue 2054".

I played both games. Skyrim for a rediculous amount of hours and i didn't even notice. 

Don't get me wrong it is kind of weird that this kind of thing isn't industry standart right now and i support that this should be embraced.

But i honestly I care way more about the main characters. When the main characters of the story are well represented and characterised i couldn't care less whether enemy number 3956 is male or female.

 

I can understand how it seems not terribly important, I'm like you, it's an apect I don't tend to notice. Of all the games I played I'd be hard put to describe the generic enemies faced beyond what kind of weapons they had. When it's an aspect of the game that doesn't register with you it's easy to underestimate its value to someone who does notice that kind of thing. Given it's generated 5 pages of arguing and a visit from the clean up crew inside of what, about 4 hours? Yup, it's important to plenty of people.

[Allan Schumacher]

Ugh, it's getting a bit weird now.

I know i am a bit suicidal with this opinion, since the first one to voice it allready got screamed down.

But is this really that important an issue? Don't get me wrong i am all for more female characters in games, but the OP specifically asks for GENERIC female npcs. You know, the ones not a single person cares about. 

Ok, so apparently from what i read here DA 2 and Skyrim had an equal representation of genders with "generic rogue 2054".

I played both games. Skyrim for a rediculous amount of hours and i didn't even notice. 

Don't get me wrong it is kind of weird that this kind of thing isn't industry standart right now and i support that this should be embraced.

But i honestly I care way more about the main characters. When the main characters of the story are well represented and characterised i couldn't care less whether enemy number 3956 is male or female.

 

It might not be to you, but keep in mind that any one person's issues might not be important to other people.  I'm sure I could share things I consider important that others wouldn't care about.  There's probably some things that you think are the most important that others don't think are really that important either.

 

Like James had mentioned: it's cool to share it.  It's just someone saying "This thing is something I think would be good for the game."  As long as it's not something ostensibly offensive (and I don't think it is) then fair enough.

[Dapper Pomegranate]

First of all, DAO and DA2  are hardly proof of the direction DAI will take in this matter. In all the combat videos they've posted, I haven't noticed a single female enemy.

 

So I do hope they continue what they started in the first two games. It's just strange that in a setting that's supposed to be largely devoid of sexism, a setting where woman can and do become fighters and soldiers, that there would be little to none on the actual battlefields. Though admittedly, attitudes seem to change from case to case. (The cutscene before the final march to Denerim showed 100% men marching off to battle, leaving their women and children behind, which always bothered me...)

 

And on a related note, I've always found it jarring when there's a group of soldiers or whatever, and the leader refers to them as men. Like Cauthrien's "men, we're headed home" to which I can only look one of the females soldiers under her command and ask the screen, "is that woman a man too?"

 

Also, the whole fewer female wardens thing...is that a thing? Because I just had a thought that if it is, perhaps they try to not recruit women unless they are noticeably exceptional (like the Warden), because of the risk of creating more broodmothers? Or something? 

[KBomb]

Yeah - much as I'd like to see female mobs, I'd prefer to see more female mobs that look realistic.  Why was my 40+ strength Hawke still willowy thin with tiny arms?  Why was my FemShep so slender when she beat Vega at pullups (though that could be explained with 'lolCerberuscybernetics' to be fair)?  At least my Aeducan Warden looked fairly muscular, but that seemed to be more 'because dwarf' than 'because 65 strength and counting'.  

 

That's another off topic thing that I want - body type changes depending on attribute allocation.  If I have 80 ****** strength, I should look like Arnold Schwarznegger.  

God, no. I don't want to play a game where stats have anything to do with how a character's body looks. I am all for sliders. In fact, I would love to see sliders in every game where customization is an option, but I don't want my character creation to be penalized because I chose a sword over a staff. Just, please no.

 

As for the topic: I know it's really important to feel represented in media. Everyone wants a sense of relation and inclusion, but unfortunately, there are too many variables to include all. Some may want their gender represented, some their sexual orientation, some their body type. I think it's just impossible to include everything and I wouldn't even want to be in the position of picking and choosing. I honestly do think Bioware outshines so many companies in this, though. I think they work really hard in making sure there is something for everyone. Sometimes, things may be omitted because of funding, technical issues, time or maybe because they aren't even aware it's an issue--which is why it's good people do voice their opinions.

 

That being said, I think sometimes you have to pick your battles and gain acceptance that not everything will be "fairly" represented. To be honest, I don't think this is an issue that needs to be addressed. Not that my opinion diminishes your concerns, just that I don't see it as something that needs to be placed on the forefront of "things that need fixing today". Maybe because I am a horribly politically incorrect person(sometimes intentionally, sometimes not), or maybe because I don't really care about generic enemies--I just do what needs to be done, which is wreck. I am just having a hard time seeing this as a "social issue" and more of a preference issue. (Of course, you may see it differently) 

[Chron0id]

In real life? No.

In a game which can reveal a lot about the social attitudes in our society and of the company making the game? Hell yes!

They're video games, not a podium to push your social agenda. Likewise, video games are just effing video games.  Stop taking them so freaking seriously.  You're looking at something and giving it way too much meaning.