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[Icy Magebane]

Its entirely possible as the origin of Templar abilities is completely unknown.

Yeah, but by that logic almost anything that isn't proven false is technically possible.  It's highly unlikely that a religious order dedicated to hunting, controlling, and imprisoning mages originally gained their unique abilities from demons.  Especially considering the fact that demons and blood mages have always been the Chantry's most hated enemies.  I mean, I understand pragmatism, but without any evidence to support a theory like this, it comes off as slander.  I don't mean to sound harsh, but... taking advantage of a few gaps in recorded history seems like a convenient way to "demonize" the Templars (sorry but I can't think of a better word... lol...).

 

I'd just like a little stronger foundation for a claim like this, that's all.

[Lulupab]

Yeah, but by that logic almost anything that isn't proven false is technically possible.  It's highly unlikely that a religious order dedicated to hunting, controlling, and imprisoning mages originally gained their unique abilities from demons.  Especially considering the fact that demons and blood mages have always been the Chantry's most hated enemies.  I mean, I understand pragmatism, but without any evidence to support a theory like this, it comes off as slander.  I don't mean to sound harsh, but... taking advantage of a few gaps in recorded history seems like a convenient way to "demonize" the Templars (sorry but I can't think of a better word... lol...).

 

I'd just like a little stronger foundation for a claim like this, that's all.

 

I was just guessing. Besides they use Lyrium which is directly connected to the fade and its inhabitants, its not that far fetched. You don't learn something like becoming a Templar overnight. If you wan't to be less harsh, you can say that it came from spirits, not demons. But its somewhat ironic that demons have the same skills as Templars.

 

Until now every source of all magics is the fade and the way I see it Lyrium is not different. A mage is made tranquil with Lyrium but it can be cured instantly if he is merely touched by a fade creature. The connections are there but I never claimed this is solid evidence but you have to agree it stinks.

[Icy Magebane]

See, I always thought that Templars slowly lost their minds from drinking lyrium was because they aren't natural mages and have no connection to the Fade.  A mage can drink all the lyrium they want, but they don't suffer severe negative effects... I think they'd have to be in contact with raw lyrium, like the dwarves mine, to have any negative effects at all.  Maybe the Fade itself has something to do with why mages can handle lyrium, but normal folks can't.  I think that's the reason why dwarves are highly resistant immune to lyrium poisoning and magic:  no connection to the Fade (not even dreams).

 

Now, I'm not claiming to know why Templars can use magic, but I think it has something to do with the stone itself... I think that red lyrium might be related to demons, but not blue lyrium.  Although now that I think of it, there was a lot of lyrium inside the Fade in DA:O...

 

It's an interesting question, though... I hope that whatever red lyrium actually is, the answer is something that makes sense and fits with the lore.  Well, it can be new lore, just not contradictory.

[Fredward]

Wonder what would happen if you threw some red lyrium into the Fade?

[Daerog]

In any case, it looks like red lyrium is only found deep in the Deep Roads (until it seems to be anywhere there are red templars). Only ancient dwarves seemed to do something with it and modern dwarves seem to have no information on it. It doesn't look like surface dwellers have any history with it before DA2.

[Icy Magebane]

In any case, it looks like red lyrium is only found deep in the Deep Roads (until it seems to be anywhere there are red templars). Only ancient dwarves seemed to do something with it and modern dwarves seem to have no information on it. It doesn't look like surface dwellers have any history with it before DA2.

Do you think maybe the ancient dwarves invented it?  Perhaps an experiment that went awry?

[Lulupab]

Apparently red Lyrium is purest form of Lyrium on Thedas. Just Lyrium, nothing added or refined. As pure as pure gets.

[Daerog]

Do you think maybe the ancient dwarves invented it?  Perhaps an experiment that went awry?

 

A dwarf made a lyrium anvil that can animate stone and metal with a soul, I wouldn't be that surprised. However, I'm guessing it has a different origin other than a dwarf experiment.

[Lulupab]

A dwarf made a lyrium anvil that can animate stone and metal with a soul, I wouldn't be that surprised. However, I'm guessing it has a different origin other than a dwarf experiment.

 

Well adding to my previous post about red Lyrium being pure, it seems its extra purified to be that way and the actual pure Lyrium is not red Lyrium. So who purified it? There is one obvious answer.

[TheodoricFriede]

Well adding to my previous post about red Lyrium being pure, it seems its extra purified to be that way and the actual pure Lyrium is not red Lyrium. So who purified it? There is one obvious answer.

Where on earth are you getting the purity thing from?

[Lulupab]

Where on earth are you getting the purity thing from?

 

DA2. Meredith Bartrand and Varric all call that idol pure/raw Lyrium.

[TheodoricFriede]

DA2. Meredith Bartrand and Varric all call that idol pure/raw Lyrium.

....

 

I think they are referring to the fact that the idol and sword are purely lyrium. Which is to say, only made out of lyrium.

 

They arent talking about the purity of the lyrium itself.

[Lulupab]

....

 

I think they are referring to the fact that the idol and sword are purely lyrium. Which is to say, only made out of lyrium.

 

They arent talking about the purity of the lyrium itself.

 

Well the ingame object named "Raw Lyrium" is actually red Lyrium:

 

[TheodoricFriede]

Well the ingame object named "Raw Lyrium" is actually red Lyrium:

 

 

Thats probably a coincidence. And besides that, Lyrium Dust was red in Origins.

 

Seriously, there is literally nothing to indicate that red lyrium is somehow more pure then standard lyrium.

[Lulupab]

Thats probably a coincidence. And besides that, Lyrium Dust was red in Origins.

 

Seriously, there is literally nothing to indicate that red lyrium is somehow more pure then standard lyrium.

 

Its has more to do with it being raw than pure as red Lyrium is found in much deeper locations of deep roads, places untouched for centuries. Its a more potent and addictive form of raw Lyrium.

[TheodoricFriede]

Its has more to do with it being raw than pure as red Lyrium is found in much deeper locations of deep roads, places untouched for centuries. Its a more potent and addictive form of raw Lyrium.

Explain for me, then, Corrupted Lyrium. Which is also red.

[Lulupab]

Explain for me, then, Corrupted Lyrium. Which is also red.

 

There is no indication that corrupted lyrium is red lyrium. You just called Raw lyrium being red coincidence, could this be one too?

 

How does lyrium become corrupted? There are no darkspawn or sign of blight in bone pit (the only place corrupted lyrium can be found) there are dragons, spiders and demons. Does corrupted here means demon-touched? Because that would make sense.

 

The wiki description of red lyrium is this:

"Red lyrium is a rare, more potent and more addictive form of raw lyrium. It can be handled by anyone and apparently, does not require dilution and ingestion to take effect.

Red lyrium has the ability to grant certain magical abilities that are unique. For example, it is known to grant the ability to animate objects and even the power of limited flight. It also seems to enhance templar and physical abilities and when processed into a Primeval Lyrium Rune, it will increase a weapon's attack speed.

Eventually though, long term exposure to red lyrium drives all of its users insane. This madness affects even normally resistant dwarves. The symptoms seem to vary. For some, they are driven to madness by a 'song' which compels them to try to force others to hear it; usually through depraved means. For others, their pride, obsessions, and paranoia are exacerbated. If abused too much, the red lyrium will shatter in their hands and cause their body to become petrified. It is also known to thin the Veil, allowing Spirits and apparitions to interact with the physical world"

[TheodoricFriede]

Right...

 

Well, given that your entire theory is based off of the misinterpretation of what characters in the game meant when they said something was "pure lyrium" i dont think your theory has a ton of merit.

 

You are welcome to believe it if it makes you happy.

[Lulupab]

Right...

 

Well, given that your entire theory is based off of the misinterpretation of what characters in the game meant when they said something was "pure lyrium" i dont think your theory has a ton of merit.

 

You are welcome to believe it if it makes you happy.

 

The point still stands that red lyrium is a form of raw lyrium found only in deep parts of deep roads. Its also not refined until yet so its more pure.

[TheodoricFriede]

The point still stands that red lyrium is a form of raw lyrium found only in deep parts of deep roads. Its also not refined until yet so its more pure.

Yeah, and you find unrefined blue lyrium in both games as well.

 

Further, im not sure why you think that "unrefined" means "pure". Generally when something is unrefined its less pure, not more.

[Lulupab]

Yeah, and you find unrefined blue lyrium in both games as well.

 

Further, im not sure why you think that "unrefined" means "pure". Generally when something is unrefined its less pure, not more.

 

We don't have magical metals so it doesn't apply. The codex mentions that pure Lyrium can kill on contact therefore it has to be refined. And this is blue Lyrium we are talking about. I suspect when the lyrium is refined we reduce the dosage and maybe add some other stuff/metals. Like pure gold is useless as well, granted it doesn't kill on contact but its useless and soft. It has to be refined and remade and other types of metals must be added to liquid gold then solidifying it back. Making it impure but useful.

[TheodoricFriede]

Like i said before, I dont think you are correct.

 

You have based your entire theory on a misinterpretation.

[Lulupab]

Like i said before, I dont think you are correct.

 

You have based your entire theory on a misinterpretation.

 

First of all it was not base of my argument I was merely using it as evidence Because clearly there is difference between "raw" and "pure".  Actually you think its a misinterpretation because I value words of Templar more than an observer. When meredith says its pure Lyrium it probably is. She's been in contact with Lyrium for several years whereas you and I only saw it on screen and heard about it. At this point nothing is certain but that idol was purely made of red lyrium. I don't even know if at the time people of Thedas knew there is something called "red lyrium" to begin with. That idol was the first to surface itself.

[TheodoricFriede]

Whatever makes you happy.