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[Lukas Trevelyan]

Great, now name 5 games that have happy endings.

[Iakus]

Dragon Age II
Mass Effect 3
The Walking Dead
Outlast
LA Noire

 

 

And don't forget these

 

Shadow of the Colossus
Red Dead Redemption
Wolfenstein The New Order
Bioshock Infinite
Fallout 3 (pre-patch)
Onimusha Dawn of Dreams
Persona 3
Dragon's Dogma
Bound by Flame

 

 

Final Fantasy X (but it was good)

Assassin's Creed 3 (Desmond)

 

Castlevania:  Lord of Shadow

Spec Ops: The Line

Diablo 3 (or possibly just really bittersweet, depending on your interpretation)

[Lukas Trevelyan]

And don't forget these

 

Shadow of the Colossus
Red Dead Redemption
Wolfenstein The New Order
Bioshock Infinite
Fallout 3 (pre-patch)
Onimusha Dawn of Dreams
Persona 3
Dragon's Dogma
Bound by Flame

 

Hmm intriguing. Well looks like I'm in over my head.

My ideal still stands however, sad endings where the hero dies add a lot more taste to the story due to it's mostly a sacrifice for the greater good. So in a way, such endings can actually be happy endings, because everything is right again thanks to the sacrifices made by the hero, those who followed him and those who took their quest for the greater good.

[Iakus]

 

Vijoelante, on 04 Aug 2014 - 10:04 AM, said:

Hmm intriguing. Well looks like I'm in over my head.

My ideal still stands however, sad endings where the hero dies add a lot more taste to the story due to it's mostly a sacrifice for the greater good. So in a way, such endings can actually be happy endings, because everything is right again thanks to the sacrifices made by the hero, those who followed him and those who took their quest for the greater good.

 

 And it's fine to have that opinion.  but others clearly disagree.  And DAO has shown it is possible to create endings where heroic sacrifice can be a valid option, but not the only option

[Lukas Trevelyan]

 And it's fine to have that opinion.  but others clearly disagree.  And DAO has shown it is possible to create endings where heroic sacrifice can be a valid option, but not the only option

And its fine to have that opinion as well, but should a game's story have a sad ending for the hero it shouldn't mean that the greatness of the story should be invalidated, nor should anyone 'bust' against it. Most of the games mentioned that had sad endings had incredible stories.

Now I'm honestly also curious to see the games with happy endings since there are a lot of games with sad endings.

[ClassicBox]

It's interesting to see what you guys consider sad or tragic endings. I disagree with quite a few and think they ended happily enough to be considered "happy."(Ah, the endless wonders of personal opinion.)

I think it would be cool to see what everybody's idea if a happy ending is? If you would like to answer of course.

To me, just because the hero dies/a companion dies, it is not sad. Again, that's just my opinion.

[Maria Caliban]

Great, now name 5 games that have happy endings.

May I ask what you're doing for here? I could list a number of them, but am not sure what the point of this conversation is.

[Lukas Trevelyan]

May I ask what you're doing for here? I could list a number of them, but am not sure what the point of this conversation is.

"Now I'm honestly also curious to see the games with happy endings since there are a lot of games with sad endings."

[Iakus]

And its fine to have that opinion as well, but should a game's story have a sad ending for the hero it shouldn't mean that the greatness of the story should be invalidated, nor should anyone 'bust' against it. Most of the games mentioned that had sad endings had incredible stories.

Now I'm honestly also curious to see the games with happy endings since there are a lot of games with sad endings.

Most of the games mentioned also don't allow much player agency.  It's different to experience a sad ending with a character you have little to no ownership with as one whom the player has mor einvestment in.

 

A better questiono would be games which have both happy and tragic outcomes

[godModeAlpha]

Dragon Age IIMass Effect 3The Walking DeadOutlastLA Noire

Interesting list. The walking dead ending was sort of a happy one for me. Despite the fate of Lee, I feel Clementine and Lee have such a strong connection that either way I can see Lee

Spoiler

living on through her actions

.

LA Noire for sure. That one caught me off guard. But are we certain since we did not see a body?

Great, now name 5 games that have happy endings.

5 games with happy thoughtful endings, off the top of my head:

1. Dragon Age origins
2. Last Of Us
3. Deus Ex: human revolution
4. Legend Of Zelda: Ocarina of time
5. GTAV

I'll add ME1 but that would be 6

[Lukas Trevelyan]

Most of the games mentioned also don't allow much player agency.  It's different to experience a sad ending with a character you have little to no ownership with as one whom the player has mor einvestment in.

 

A better questiono would be games which have both happy and tragic outcomes

Indeed, that'd be a better question, so more or less I should be asking about games where it's optional whether you want to go for a happy ending route or a tragic ending route (including games that required effort to reach the happy ending). I don't think there are many of those either, no?

[Zjarcal]

May I ask what you're doing for here? I could list a number of them, but am not sure what the point of this conversation is.

 
I figure the point was to show more games have happy endings than sad ones, which is already well known.
 

Spec Ops: The Line

No one can accuse this game of blindsiding them though, that was one giant downward spiral that couldn't have ended any differently. A glorious downward spiral that is.
 

Spoiler

Though you could argue it does have one semi up-lifting ending with Walker being rescued

[Lukas Trevelyan]

Okay well I'd like to apologize for my seemingly stupid question earlier, I should've googled that, still many games do have happy endings 

And it occurred to me as @ClassicBox mentioned, I do think personal opinion does have an effect when it comes to deciding whether an ending is happy, sad, bittersweet. I myself found my Origins ending unsettling, because being king I have a son who has the soul of an old god just because I wanted to live, and there is not much I can do about it.

[Zjarcal]

Okay well I'd like to apologize for my seemingly stupid question earlier, I should've googled that, still many games do have happy endings 

Way more have happy endings, yes. It's as much of a "cliche" as the tragic ending is a "cliche" (hate using the word cliche to begin with but you get the point).

Also yes, personal opinion counts for a lot. I think myself ME3's high EMS destroy ending is a highly uplifting ending contrary to most here, hence why I disagree the game forces you into a sad ending.

[Killdren88]

Call me boring or Old Fashion, but I'd rather have a Happy Ending where it actually feels like one. You feel good everyone around you feels good  and you aren't left with a bitter taste in your mouth. Thus I disliked ME3's Ending. I felt like I was being punished for even considering such a thing. And to ONLY get a short breath Scene and being told to "Head canon it" is just lazy. Especially for the third game of the trilogy. And what ticked me off even more is that they went on to say for all you know that could be just the final breath before death. NO! STOP IT. Give me straight answers. You can make me  think about the ending and what potential implication it might hold, but please. Allow a ending that leaves a good taste afterwards and with questions answered rather than left unanswered. Unless of course the said question are tied in to the next game.

[Iakus]

Indeed, that'd be a better question, so more or less I should be asking about games where it's optional whether you want to go for a happy ending route or a tragic ending route (including games that required effort to reach the happy ending). I don't think there are many of those either, no?

 

Those are trickier to pull off, but they exis.  And are among my favorite rpgs:

 

DAO

Vampire, The Masquerade: Bloodlines

Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magicka Obscura

 Chrono Trigger

 

Also:

Dishonored

Fable 3 (though it's pretty easy to cheese your way through it)

One can even argue the Fallout games.  While the main character generally survives, the player's actions can bring happiness/misery to regions in the game.  Not always intentionally.

[Felya87]

Way more have happy endings, yes. It's as much of a "cliche" as the tragic ending is a "cliche" (hate using the word cliche to begin with but you get the point).

Also yes, personal opinion counts for a lot. I think myself ME3's high EMS destroy ending is a highly uplifting ending contrary to most here, hence why I disagree the game forces you into a sad ending.

 

yet most of those ending can be see as bittersweet or "open".

 

Beyond Good and Evil have a very happy ending, but after the credits you see is not so "happy".

 

Final Fantasy IX have a happy ending, but the phate of a character make it all bittersweet.

 

assassin's creed 1 and 2 all have an open ending, so is hard to tell if those are happy or sad.

 

Sly Cooper Tieves in Time have both a sad and open ending.

 

Still life have the very sad/bittersweet story of the grandfather, and the relatively happy of the nephew.

 

Syberia 1 have a happy but open ending, the 2 a bittersweet ending.

 

there are more bittersweet than "happy" endings.

[Altima Darkspells]

So let's all agree that there are three types of endings:

Happy-Happy-Funtimes, Bittersweet, and Depressing as ****.

And we want the option for all of them in DAI.

[Zjarcal]

*snip*

Ok, if we really want to get technical we're gonna have to list every game ever made, not just list a few, not to mention we're also gonna have to go into subjective interpretations of what's a happy or not, so that's kind of a futile endeavor.

As far games I have played, there have definitely been way more clear cut happy outcomes than bittersweet or tragic, at least as far my interpretation of them goes (for instance, I wouldn't really drag Beyond Good and Evil into bittersweet just cause of the post credits scene).

[jtav]

I think the writers should go for whatever type(s) of endings suit the story they want to tell. My own preference is for bittersweet, but any kind of ending can be done well or poorly.

[godModeAlpha]

I think the writers should go for whatever type(s) of endings suit the story they want to tell. My own preference is for bittersweet, but any kind of ending can be done well or poorly.

Bittersweet, same

[Iakus]

Problem is, how much bitter, and how much sweet?  DIfferent people have different tolerances for each.

 

Which is why I prefer buffet-style rather than ordering off the menu

[Palidane]

Problem is, how much bitter, and how much sweet?  DIfferent people have different tolerances for each.

 

Which is why I prefer buffet-style rather than ordering off the menu

Ehh. I don't necessarily prefer buffet style. A lot of times when games try to do that, they gave you a lot of choices that are all terrible, and one decent choice. Mass Effect 3 and Deus Ex: Human Revolution both had four endings, but I would only ever pick one of them. Maybe it's just me, but I've never encountered a big "ending choice" that I found difficult to make.

 

Whereas in a game like The Walking Dead, there is only one ending, but it's really powerful and memorable. Sometimes less is more.

[Iakus]

Ehh. I don't necessarily prefer buffet style. A lot of times when games try to do that, they gave you a lot of choices that are all terrible, and one decent choice. Mass Effect 3 and Deus Ex: Human Revolution both had four endings, but I would only ever pick one of them. Maybe it's just me, but I've never encountered a big "ending choice" that I found difficult to make.

 

Whereas in a game like The Walking Dead, there is only one ending, but it's really powerful and memorable. Sometimes less is more.

And in DAO, there are essentially four endings, with with so many smaller variables (which teh player can to some degree control) it feel like much, much more.  Far better than "pick a color explosion or "push button to end game"

[frylock23]

 

I framed my question in the way I did because I see plenty of outspoken people suggesting that we, as a game studio, should never seek to send a message with our games.

 

 

I don't think that's quite right. I think you can absolutely send messages. The problem these days is that sending messages is very often confused with being preachy. I don't like people who think that being preachy is desirable. If I want to absorb a message on something like being pro-life/pro-choice or pro-gay marriage or something else that's equally charged, I have plenty of political blogs in my list if Internet links. There are plenty of pundits who write long screeds about such subjects every day.

 

That doesn't mean you can't have some controversial themes in the story, but if they are pushed the forefront and the story suffers, you verge into preaching territory. The Dragon Age series already has themes about religion and different types of personal freedom, a society that is fairly sexually open on several levels with all the themes that implies, so you can already play with an entire toolbox of charged topics in ways that are (or should be) entirely natural to the world and to the setting without subverting the player's suspension of disbelief.

 

Now, if you're talking about ending on a positive note on occasion. How long can you end every story on a bad note without starting to subvert the player's suspension of disbelief? Dragon Age is a dark fantasy world, but even in the worst places, there should be spots of brightness, signs of hope. 

 

 

As for the differences between PnP and video game RPG, there is a reason I refer to giving the player "illusion of control" in one of my previous posts.

 

In a tabletop PnP, the story is far more collaborative and both the players and the GM work together to build the experience. Players do have a great deal of control in the process which is very freeform. They also have a lot of ownership of their characters. At most tables I've sat at, a GM won't outright kill a character unless the player actively puts him or herself in harm's way and does something stupid or the dice dictate that it happens. The few times that my husband (as a GM) has actively written PC death into the story purely for dramatic/story effect, it was never without receiving the express permission of the player prior to the event. If a GM is in the habit of arbitrarily killing PCs, he quickly finds himself without a table to run. Most players won't stand for it.

 

In a video game RPG, I think the balance is a lot more tenuous. Obviously, the players can't collaborate, and the developers have to write and plan the entire story ahead of time leaving open enough paths that players feel sort of like dogs with an invisible fence - free until we hit that magic boundary and get brought back into line. The developers/writers have to seduce us into buying the illusion of our control, and the game has to sustain it until we finish playing. Get too heavy handed, and players feel like their own agency in the game has been taken away. If you expect that your choices will matter, that you will have some freedom, then the developers have failed in their mission to some degree.