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[LPPrince]

Just for amusement's sake, it will be interesting if we can get the Breach to close by talking to it.

 

"Bad breach! Bad!"

 

*smacks breach atop head*

 

"GO TO YOUR ROOM"

 

*breach has a sad, leaves Thedas alone*

 

*comes back in a later game because-*

 

[LaughingBanana]

 

 

This trope has been so overdone I am beyond sick of it at this point.  What I loved about Dragon Age: Origins was that it gave you options.  Wanted to have your cake and eat it too? Perform the dark ritual with Morrigan.   Would you rather be a boring ponce (I'm kidding it's your choice) and heroically lay down your life by forgoing hot sex and get a bittersweet ending?  You could do that as well!  All the bases were covered.   This was something a certain team forgot with a certain other game that shall not be mentioned. 

 

Here's hoping there's options at the end of Dragon Age Inquisition.  I want my happy ending!  I  also think Sean Connery in The Rock said it best. 

 

"Losers try their best.  Winners go home and f*** the prom queen."

 

And then Awakening unceremoniously revived your zombie Warden if you import the game, making the whole point moot.

 

But I guess that's just the way death works in DA world. I mean, a decapitated Leliana returned all fine and dandy in DA2 and this one anyways, hahaha.

[Killdren88]

But I guess that's just the way death works in DA world. I mean, a decapitated Leliana returned all fine and dandy in DA2 and this one anyways, hahaha.

Random death blow animations DO NOT equal canon.

[Nefla]

The ending being a mess or a poor fit for a story is a different issue than a story being upsetting. There's nothing about an RPG that says it must have a happy ending, even if the player works really hard. ME3's ending was atrocious on a number of levels, but tragedy is still legitimate. That ME3 bungled it badly is no reason DAI shouldn't make the attempt if and only if the story calls for it. But it's consistency and not the tone per se that's the issue. Citadel is even worse for ME3 than the ending.

I agree but not solely for the reason of tone. It was random, out of touch, and poorly written and executed as was the ending but they were waaaay in opposite directions. The concepts and execution in the citadel dlc, the ending, and to a lesser extent the entire plot of ME3 seemed like amateur hour to me, like a bad fanfic.

[LaughingBanana]

Random death blow animations DO NOT equal canon.

 

Well, my heroic sacrificial Warden got miraculously revived in Awakening.

 

Just face it. The "random death blow animations DO NOT equal canon" reasons are just shenanigans Bioware pulled off because they couldn't be bothered to do otherwise.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Well, my heroic sacrificial Warden got miraculously revived in Awakening.

 

Just face it. The "random death blow animations DO NOT equal canon" reasons are just shenanigans Bioware pulled off because they couldn't be bothered to do otherwise.

Well doesn't game change your flags as you did DR if you import your character that did US?

[Felya87]

Well, my heroic sacrificial Warden got miraculously revived in Awakening.

 

 

you probably had a bug. Because those that import a US ending in Awakening don't have the Warden as protagonist, but a new Warden from Orlais.

[Milan92]

you probably had a bug. Because those that import a US ending in Awakening don't have the Warden as protagonist, but a new Warden from Orlais.

Actually no. That is what everyone wanted to happen. But you dont play as an orleasian warden if you import a dead warden. You can only play a warden from orlais if you didnt import at all.

[Felya87]

Actually no. That is what everyone wanted to happen. But you dont play as an orleasian warden if you import a dead warden. You can only play a warden from orlais if you didnt import at all.

 

That was what I knew of. I never killed any of my Wardens, so I haven't tried.

[Ieldra]

Maybe I can clarify my position a bit better. Imagine a hypothetical new player posting here for the first time: "I can't decide whether to kill or spare Loghain. Help?" That'll unleash twenty pages of discussion even after five years. Can you imagine the same sort of passion about the Circle choice? I want DAI's choices to evoke that passion.

Not to point too fine a point on it, but ME3's ending also evoked high passion, and Casey Hudson was quoted as saying they were ok with the reaction. Not that I really believe that, but something wrong when the need for emotional intensity, no matter the kind of emotion, becomes the cornerstone of the design of story elements.

[Ieldra]

The thing that really makes Tuchanka work (besides some really good writing) is that it forces even the player who knows how to manipulate variables to consider what they want. One combination of variables will get you a tearjerking heroic sacrifice and the salvation of the krogan, at the cost of losing some salarian support. Or you can save Mordin. The krogan are doomed but that's probably a good thing, considering Wreav's plans. Or you can maximize your War Assets, but you have to kill Mordin.

It works because there are costs to all outcomes. It works - as opposed to the ending of the game - because (1) all the options arise naturally from the story, even though there is no outcome where everyone is alive and happy, and (2) because our protagonist wasn't involved. Forgive my cynicism, but if we were playing Mordin and this was the end of the game, we'd see the same kind of complaints from some people, namely that they couldn't save themselves and the krogan.

[jtav]

I also think it could benefit future BW games to borrow from Omega. All the endings are good endings depending on what you value and the ending you get is a direct result of your choices. Pure Renegade makes me ill, but other people adore it. I prefer mixed alignment or strict Paragon. It's got a good spread of choices, with something for almost every type of PC.

[Samahl]

Just face it. The "random death blow animations DO NOT equal canon" reasons are just shenanigans Bioware pulled off because they couldn't be bothered to do otherwise.

 

You can also decapitate Howe in the very same game, who goes on to say his final words anyway directly after.

[Artemis Leonhart]

That was what I knew of. I never killed any of my Wardens, so I haven't tried.

I think that it was intended to be done as you said, with an US warden not playable but the world state imported so that an Orlesian Commander still finds themselves to deal with the world your protagonist left, but somehow they didn't get it to work properly and you either imported an US Warden to keep the world state but he/she was revived magically in the process, or you didn't import, get a default world state and play as the Orlesian Warden-Commander. There is a trick to make it work, but only on pc, IIRC.

[Felya87]

I think that it was intended to be done as you said, with an US warden not playable but the world state imported so that an Orlesian Commander still finds themselves to deal with the world your protagonist left, but somehow they didn't get it to work properly and you either imported an US Warden to keep the world state but he/she was revived magically in the process, or you didn't import, get a default world state and play as the Orlesian Warden-Commander. There is a trick to make it work, but only on pc, IIRC.

 

so some kind of bug, as I thought. that way it would have made sense. 

 

Edit: probably at first it wasn't intended to import the save from Awakening at all in DA2.

[Artemis Leonhart]

so some kind of bug, as I thought. that way it would have made sense. 

 

Edit: probably at first it wasn't intended to import the save from Awakening at all in DA2.

It was probably more of an oversight than a bug, but the end result is the same. The US warden gets magically revived, with no explanation. I can't help but picture the warden singing and dancing "Thriller" by Michael Jackson every time I think about it.

What do you mean?

[Felya87]

It was probably more of an oversight than a bug, but the end result is the same. The US warden gets magically revived, with no explanation. I can't help but picture the warden singing and dancing "Thriller" by Michael Jackson every time I think about it.

What do you mean?

 

I believe the import was initially only for expansions, not for DA2. or at least, not programmed for import from DAA to DA2. But yeah, the dead warden revived was probably an oversight. Maybe they didn't think about people importing the "dead Warden" state in DAA.

 

(ahahah, I can totally picture my male Dwarf dancing it!even if he romanced Morrigan and did the ritual...but he was a funny guy

Brosca Warden dancing: Couse this is Thriller!!!

Morrigan: sigh.

Shale: and it lamented about the dumb one.

Morrigan: oh, shut it!)

[Iakus]

It was probably more of an oversight than a bug, but the end result is the same. The US warden gets magically revived, with no explanation. I can't help but picture the warden singing and dancing "Thriller" by Michael Jackson every time I think about it.

What do you mean?

My understanding is it was a technical limitation they had at the time.

[Artemis Leonhart]

My understanding is it was a technical limitation they had at the time.

Still, it was weird to have an imported US warden alive and kicking.

[jtav]

It's why I can't pick the US, despite it being my actual favorite ending.

[Milan92]

It's why I can't pick the US, despite it being my actual favorite ending.

 

Hopefully they'll solve it with the keep.

[King Dragonlord]

I agree but not solely for the reason of tone. It was random, out of touch, and poorly written and executed as was the ending but they were waaaay in opposite directions. The concepts and execution in the citadel dlc, the ending, and to a lesser extent the entire plot of ME3 seemed like amateur hour to me, like a bad fanfic.

Oh especially the Citadel. 

 

Mildly enjoyed it the first time. Second time couldn't get past the fanboy pandering. For me its not that they wrote a story about Shepard and crew having one last party, it was all the little things. The way they almost were giving each other knowing winks as they went through their kooky antics. Like 'we sure are outlandish and awesome aren't we?' Cringeworthy.

 

Maya Brooks might be the exception. I almost felt like she (at least the way we first meet her) is meant to be a parody of the typical Mass Effect companion/love interest (her awkwardness and gushing, she's like Liara, Traynor, and Tali rolled into one.) If Bioware meant it to be a good natured self deprecation of their own writing tics then the in character justification for it turns out to be quite clever. Otherwise, she's another lump of fanfic.

[King Dragonlord]

Also, ME3 had no boss fight, but DA2 had an extra unnecessary boss fight.

 

I like your suggestion after the post I'm quoting (the physical spiritual thing) if we have to have boss fights with these characters.

 

But I'd have preferred that neither of them took it as far as they did. To me each side had good points up till pretty close to the end. Meredith really believes she has to do this to defend her people against mages and Orsino really believes that his lot is just plain intolerable.

 

And they're both right.

 

But it breaks down when we see that "Oh, Meredith is just crazy because of the lyrium." Maybe they needed more time to work it out but I felt like you could have justified coming to blows with her without that. And if she needs to be powerful, give her bombs, it makes sense she'd have that in case she needs to match the firepower of a mage. Maybe a bomb launcher. Maybe the lyrium is just supposed to be the match in the powder keg but it still muddies what was otherwise an interesting character.

 

And it breaks down for Orsino when he turns into a giant homunculus. I instantly went from being sympathetic towards him to saying "You know what? Screw mages." I mean if even the seemingly good ones like Anders and Orsino can engage in depraved acts and horrific destruction, we really need to shut down the mages. They're just too dangerous. I think Bioware knew that most people were sympathetic to mages cuz freedom and all that, so they tried a little too hard to show the dark side of mages. 

[CronoDragoon]

And that can be effective. The presence of avoidable dilemmas will leave you wondering about the unavoidable dilemmas while the unavoidable dilemmas make it that much sweeter when you find a difficult situation you can avoid (if you could simply avoid all of them, thats not going to feel as rewarding for most players. It lacks tension)

 

I actually think Dragon Age 2 does a good job of this. At least, better than Origins. Bringing Bethany to the Deep Roads informed the tone of my entire playthrough. Nothing was safe, everything could go wrong. Which made it all the better when Isabela returns with the book; I actually thought she was gone (and indeed she could be depending on you). Then at the end of the game it's either support Meredith or Orsino. And sometimes you don't get a choice, like All That Remains.

 

It kept me on my toes and paying attention, more than Origins and certainly more than Mass Effect.