839 réponses à ce sujet

[Ieldra]

I suspect our differing upbringings are showing. I was raised to believe giving your life to save another is the second-noblest death one can hope for. I never actually choose the US, but I'd choose it almost every time if I could rationalize DAA/GoA/WH

It's more that I tend to get rebellious whenever I feel I'm expected to believe something that doesn't come naturally to me with insufficient reason. You can't avoid being exposed to this idea if you read any stories at all. In fact, the more stories you're exposed to, the more the idea keeps following you around in an altogether intrusive way. *Of course* I reject it. If I'm going to give my life for another, I must feel that the other is worth it, either to the world or to me, and I'm absolutely not going to automatically assume that this is the case.  

[Joseph Warrick]

I'd like the ending to happen after you close the breach. It shouldn't be you die closing the breach, or you send someone else to close the breach, or you sleep with Morrigan.

 

Close the breach and then deal with the aftermath. You've got a big organization with castles and an army but you have no purpose anymore. The rulers of the nations of Thedas consider you inconvenient and dangerous now. Your choices:

 

- Kill everybody

- Surrender the inquisition to the Chantry and retire

- Sleep with Morrigan

[Abraham_uk]

Anyone else really, really, really hoping this game doesn't pigeon-hole us into an ending or various endings that all end in what has been the most over-used cliche in this generation of gaming?  I am of course talking about the

 

Hero sacrifices himself to save the world cliche. 

 

This trope has been so overdone I am beyond sick of it at this point.  What I loved about Dragon Age: Origins was that it gave you options.  Wanted to have your cake and eat it too? Perform the dark ritual with Morrigan.   Would you rather be a boring ponce (I'm kidding it's your choice) and heroically lay down your life by forgoing hot sex and get a bittersweet ending?  You could do that as well!  All the bases were covered.   This was something a certain team forgot with a certain other game that shall not be mentioned. 

 

I've said this before, but take a look at my sig if you want any more elaboration.  So here's hoping there's options at the end of Dragon Age Inquisition.  I want my happy ending!  I  also think Sean Connery in The Rock said it best. 

 

"Losers try their best.  Winners go home and f*** the prom queen."

 

 

So... You could sacrifice yourself to save the day, or you could perform a ritual to save the day without the sacrifice.

If the ritual had some kind of consequences then that would be interesting. As far as I know, there is literally no consequences for performing the dark ritual with Morrigan. So there is absolutely no point to sacrifice yourself unless you're a bit curious to find out what the "bad" ending is like.

[Tevinter Soldier]

I'm hoping for a realistic ending. You know the sort where the Protagonist set's out to save the world but over time realises just how hard its is and becomes snarky sarcastic and cynical, winds up giving up on the quest and instead pursues a career in something that brings him very little joy (but never less pay's the bills) raises a family, drinks fairly heavily and shakes his head as listens to all the young idealistic people complain about the world going to ****.

[Allan Schumacher]

Those people hit puberty and now appreciate happy endings as well

 

Really though people have a problem with everything being the same. If every ending is happy it's just as bad as every ending being tragic.

 

It was only after I hit puberty that I felt a preference towards introspective endings.

 

That's not to say I don't enjoy happy endings (The Shawshank Redemption is my favourite movie), nor do I have a particular aversion to a movie having a happy ending (most do).  But I do prefer narratives that make me think.  As an RPG gamer, I like choices and specifically ones that have consequences.  This includes the opportunity cost of the choice not made.

 

I find there's a divide, however, between those that value choice.  At least from interactions I first had when I joined the forums.

 

That is, some value choice from the stand point of "I can choose to drive the narrative in a direction that I like."  Whereas I prefer choice to be having to make decisions within the game and accepting the consequences of those decisions.  My evaluation is done in game, so the idea of "choosing" a choice that appear to be an ostensibly poor one isn't really a choice for me, even though the game affords me the opportunity.

 

 

With respect to a game's ending, the reality is that it's going to be very difficult to give people an ending that everyone will enjoy.  The biggest issue I have with the "work hard for it" happy ending is that a lot of the times, it simply means "play the game in its entirety" (ME2 almost fits this, if not for the fact that characters can die based on the decisions you make on the suicide mission).  That said, I think that having an ending where the suicide mission can be achieved without anyone dying isn't as interesting of an ending as it could have been.  It'd be like being able to save Ashley and Kaidan.

 

 

Endings that make me think and feel emotion (as long as its within the context of the game and my character) are powerful and the endings that I tend to love.  PST and The Walking Dead are two of my favourite endings.  Fallout 1 also had an amazing ending.

[Hellion Rex]

Endings that make me think and feel emotion (as long as its within the context of the game and my character) are powerful and the endings that I tend to love.  PST and The Walking Dead are two of my favourite endings.  Fallout 1 also had an amazing ending.

YES. So much this^.

 

Some of the best games, in my opinion, were the ones that swept me away on currents of emotion. It doesn't matter to me if it's a happy or tragic ending, but I have to feel it.

 

Bioshock Infinite was a game, in my opinion, that had one hell of an ending, especially if you played both Burial by Sea DLCs. When I finished the original game, that ending left my brain riddled with different thoughts and feelings. When I finished the second DLC, and the ending song played, I was touched by a serious wave of emotion. I teared up, because I felt as if I had been on an adventure with these characters, and now it had to come to such a tragic, yet hopeful ending.

[Xilizhra]

It was only after I hit puberty that I felt a preference towards introspective endings.

 

That's not to say I don't enjoy happy endings (The Shawshank Redemption is my favourite movie), nor do I have a particular aversion to a movie having a happy ending (most do).  But I do prefer narratives that make me think.  As an RPG gamer, I like choices and specifically ones that have consequences.  This includes the opportunity cost of the choice not made.

 

I find there's a divide, however, between those that value choice.  At least from interactions I first had when I joined the forums.

 

That is, some value choice from the stand point of "I can choose to drive the narrative in a direction that I like."  Whereas I prefer choice to be having to make decisions within the game and accepting the consequences of those decisions.  My evaluation is done in game, so the idea of "choosing" a choice that appear to be an ostensibly poor one isn't really a choice for me, even though the game affords me the opportunity.

 

 

With respect to a game's ending, the reality is that it's going to be very difficult to give people an ending that everyone will enjoy.  The biggest issue I have with the "work hard for it" happy ending is that a lot of the times, it simply means "play the game in its entirety" (ME2 almost fits this, if not for the fact that characters can die based on the decisions you make on the suicide mission).  That said, I think that having an ending where the suicide mission can be achieved without anyone dying isn't as interesting of an ending as it could have been.  It'd be like being able to save Ashley and Kaidan.

 

 

Endings that make me think and feel emotion (as long as its within the context of the game and my character) are powerful and the endings that I tend to love.  PST and The Walking Dead are two of my favourite endings.  Fallout 1 also had an amazing ending.

But is it not better for the game to make you think before the ending so that you might be able to find the best one? Of course, anyone could just read how to do it online and not think at all, but that's on them. I still find it somewhat difficult to understand this notion of disliking a happy ending that you have to work for.

[frylock23]

Again, the ending needs to make sense in the context of the rest of the game. DA:O did it very well. I actually have more saves where the US is made than I do with the DR because of the way the US is set up throughout the game as the way to kill the Archdemon - someone must die in order to kill the Archdemon. You know it all the way through, so when the time comes, as sad as it is, it's also the appropriate outcome in the context of the game and feels emotionally appropriate. Whatever Morrigan is offering you seems too easy and suspicious to me by comparison, so I've only done it a few times.

 

Whatever the endings of DA:I are, I hope all of them are thematically and emotionally appropriate to what I've done and how the plot has been set up. I don't want any glowing platforms to lift me up to the Fade and offer me choices, and if that must happen, I sure don't want to be blind-sided by it.

[Hellion Rex]

Again, the ending needs to make sense in the context of the rest of the game. DA:O did it very well. I actually have more saves where the US is made than I do with the DR because of the way the US is set up throughout the game as the way to kill the Archdemon - someone must die in order to kill the Archdemon. You know it all the way through, so when the time comes, as sad as it is, it's also the appropriate outcome in the context of the game and feels emotionally appropriate. Whatever Morrigan is offering you seems too easy and suspicious to me by comparison, so I've only done it a few times.

In my mind, I too agree that the DAO endings were appropriate. That being said, I choose the Dark Ritual every time. It felt like a tough choice to me, because my Amell was very suspicious of Morrigan's motives and yet was even more afraid to die, in my own headcanon. So in that regard, choosing to live came at a very high cost, as the Old God's soul was trapped in a child.

[Xilizhra]

Again, the ending needs to make sense in the context of the rest of the game. DA:O did it very well. I actually have more saves where the US is made than I do with the DR because of the way the US is set up throughout the game as the way to kill the Archdemon - someone must die in order to kill the Archdemon. You know it all the way through, so when the time comes, as sad as it is, it's also the appropriate outcome in the context of the game and feels emotionally appropriate. Whatever Morrigan is offering you seems too easy and suspicious to me by comparison, so I've only done it a few times.

 

Whatever the endings of DA:I are, I hope all of them are thematically and emotionally appropriate to what I've done and how the plot has been set up. I don't want any glowing platforms to lift me up to the Fade and offer me choices, and if that must happen, I sure don't want to be blind-sided by it.

I actually disagree, in that I feel that Morrigan's offer, if refused, has no place in the story and that the whole thing is awkward and pointless if you make the sacrifice.

[Felya87]

what was good about DAO endings was that those where choise very tied to how someone would roleplay the game: Most of my wardens where good friends with Morrigan, and for them her word was enough to accept the risk of the DR.

for one of my elves, instead, who wasn't very friendly with her, it wasn't enough, and the risk of such a ritual was too much. so US.

 

those endings didn't needed to "work the most for having them", and that was a good thing for me, and put all the epilogue on the same level, without the "I win the best ending" ending situation, since it was "just" the preferred ending, without the "feeling of loosing the game".

[frylock23]

Morrigan is making the offer ... why? I can see why she would make it to her lover, but I always play female wardens. So, from that perspective ... why is she making this offer? The Archdemon is terribly corrupt and evil force and your characters has been seeing the evidence of that all game. So here is this woman offering to sleep with someone who is your lover (maybe) in order to take the soul of that evil being into the resulting child. What kind of person has their lover sleep with another woman to preserve the soul of one of the most evil beings in the land? My characters never wind up trusting Morrigan that far.

 

To me, Morrigan's offer seems sinister when she makes it to a warden who hasn't spent much time at all with her all game.

[Xilizhra]

Morrigan is making the offer ... why? I can see why she would make it to her lover, but I always play female wardens. So, from that perspective ... why is she making this offer? The Archdemon is terribly corrupt and evil force and your characters has been seeing the evidence of that all game. So here is this woman offering to sleep with someone who is your lover (maybe) in order to take the soul of that evil being into the resulting child. What kind of person has their lover sleep with another woman to preserve the soul of one of the most evil beings in the land? My characters never wind up trusting Morrigan that far.

 

To me, Morrigan's offer seems sinister when she makes it to a warden who hasn't spent much time at all with her all game.

Well, firstly, my love is Leliana. Second, the child will be free of the darkspawn taint; I don't think Morrigan would turn on me that way.

[javeart]

But is it not better for the game to make you think before the ending so that you might be able to find the best one? Of course, anyone could just read how to do it online and not think at all, but that's on them. I still find it somewhat difficult to understand this notion of disliking a happy ending that you have to work for.

 

I know you didn't ask me, but, in my case, it's because, as I said, I find it more interesting if the RP choices are the ones that affects the ending the most. It also depends a lot on what are we thinking when we talking about "working hard to get the happy ending". For instance, I hated having to spend, I don't know, one hour or so? in utterly boring scanning to achieve all the assets needed to make Shepard survive, and I just can't let her die, if I know there's an option to save her. Contrary to most people, I can barely express with words how grateful I am tthat MP offered a shorcut 

[frylock23]

See? This lies in the difference between how you and I play the game and perceive the characters. I never really liked Morrigan at all. Hence, I don't trust her motives. Whether I think the child will be tainted or not doesn't matter, I still don't trust the idea of a child with the soul of an Archdemon, taint and evil are not inextricably linked.

[Ieldra]

I find there's a divide, however, between those that value choice.  At least from interactions I first had when I joined the forums.
 
That is, some value choice from the stand point of "I can choose to drive the narrative in a direction that I like."  Whereas I prefer choice to be having to make decisions within the game and accepting the consequences of those decisions.  My evaluation is done in game, so the idea of "choosing" a choice that appear to be an ostensibly poor one isn't really a choice for me, even though the game affords me the opportunity.

When I spoke of "intentionally failing for the sake of a better story" earlier, I meant making decisions you, as the player, know to have a less than optimal outcome, either by metaknowledge or storytelling logic. I did *not* mean making decisions that appear to be bad by in-world logic. That would make your character stupid anyway, and I don't play stupid.

 

With respect to a game's ending, the reality is that it's going to be very difficult to give people an ending that everyone will enjoy.  The biggest issue I have with the "work hard for it" happy ending is that a lot of the times, it simply means "play the game in its entirety" (ME2 almost fits this, if not for the fact that characters can die based on the decisions you make on the suicide mission).  That said, I think that having an ending where the suicide mission can be achieved without anyone dying isn't as interesting of an ending as it could have been.  It'd be like being able to save Ashley and Kaidan.

That's not going to be a problem if there is no way to see how to achieve that "perfect" option by in-world/in-character logic. All that's required is to make a non-standard outcome here or there, one that goes against standard storytelling conventions such as "good always comes from acting good".

 

Endings that make me think and feel emotion (as long as its within the context of the game and my character) are powerful and the endings that I tend to love.  PST and The Walking Dead are two of my favourite endings.  Fallout 1 also had an amazing ending.

I appreciate endings that make me think. Deus Ex (1) was very good in that, as was PST and Fallout1. The thing is, however, none of those games left you without hope for your character if you chose to play them that way. There was always some way to you to imagine that there's another story, somewhere, somewhen. I didn't always chose those options, but I find it very important that they exist, because I feel that I should have agency enough in a roleplaying game to make such an outcome possible. An ending with no hope for the protagonist I will never like, but in a book I can accept it, because there can only be one ending and I'm not forced into complicity in bringing in about. The same situation in an RPG makes me rather rebellious against the writers, because I feel I should have at least agency enough to avoid the feeling that I'm forced into complicity in bringing about my own doom. Unless it's a noir story, but then you usually know that from the start, which makes all the difference.

[nightcobra]

 

The biggest issue I have with the "work hard for it" happy ending is that a lot of the times, it simply means "play the game in its entirety" (ME2 almost fits this, if not for the fact that characters can die based on the decisions you make on the suicide mission).

 That said, I think that having an ending where the suicide mission can be achieved without anyone dying isn't as interesting of an ending as it could have been.  It'd be like being able to save Ashley and Kaidan.

 

 

I respect your answer but I personally have to disagree on this point, of course there can be moments in which you can only have one way or the other but IMO the suicide mission in ME2 was one of the best moments i've ever experienced in a videogame ever for the very reason that i can choose how it can end up, sometimes my shepard would be a hero and be able to save everyone, sometimes i'd roll a shepard who was more reckless and in so doing cost the lives of a few squadmates.

Now you could say "but then you'd have to deliberately play badly in order to lose those squadmates" to which i'd retort that playing badly on purpose is a different thing from keeping in character with the PC I create. If I create a PC who I envision as a intelligent person, i'll pick intelligent choices, if the PC i create is reckless, I'll pick the choices that are in line with that personality, If i create a naive PC i'll do the same accordingly.....Roleplaying my character and living with the consequences (Bad AND GOOD) of my choices is what i'm getting at.

 

That's why I loved the amount of ways the suicide mission could end up, Because I could roleplay my characters to the fullest of their abilities

It's not about the happy ending being less interesting than a bittersweet ending, but rather having the choice of an ending that fits the journey of the PC you created like a glove.  

[Xilizhra]

I know you didn't ask me, but, in my case, it's because, as I said, I find it more interesting if the RP choices are the ones that affects the ending the most. It also depends a lot on what are we thinking when we talking about "working hard to get the happy ending". For instance, I hated having to spend, I don't know, one hour or so? in utterly boring scanning to achieve all the assets needed to make Shepard survive, and I just can't let her die, if I know there's an option to save her. Contrary to most people, I can barely express with words how grateful I am tthat MP offered a shorcut 

I must be a freak, because I enjoyed scanning planets. I even enjoy it on new playthroughs.

 

See? This lies in the difference between how you and I play the game and perceive the characters. I never really liked Morrigan at all. Hence, I don't trust her motives. Whether I think the child will be tainted or not doesn't matter, I still don't trust the idea of a child with the soul of an Archdemon, taint and evil are not inextricably linked.

But we have nothing to judge Urthemiel's evil on without the taint. Being made into a ghoul inherently makes one destructive.

[Felya87]

 

To me, Morrigan's offer seems sinister when she makes it to a warden who hasn't spent much time at all with her all game.

 

to me, instead, the feeling was different. My Wardens where called "sisters" by Morrigan. they where good friends, and had travel together for almost a year. She gave the warden a solution. Is not a simple choice. Is not a pleasant one, but is a choise.

my other warden, instead didn't do the ritual, because she didn't believed it. and Alistair died.

it's what make roleplay fun. for one Morrigan is a friend with a solution, even if unpleasant, for another is a trick.

[Wulfram]

I think having one perfect ending is boring.  I'd rather have a bunch of endings that are more or less equal, but in different ways.  And perhaps a "fail" ending too.  And they don't have to be too equal - I don't want the writers to feel the need to have a bunch of guys die just to stop one ending from being too nice.

 

Of course, imports for the next game make really different endings awkward.  You have more chance if you keep the differences to the personal, but that's pretty limiting when you're telling an epic story.

[javeart]

I must be a freak, because I enjoyed scanning planets. I even enjoy it on new playthroughs.

 

 

To each their own. I'd definitely rather not have to do things like that to achieve a "better" ending

[frylock23]

And it all comes back to trusting Morrigan which my characters generally don't. She doesn't make herself trustworthy. I understand that this is because I as a player can't stand her so I never end up running with her in my party any longer than I have to and I don't spend a lot of time talking to her. But the end result is that the party member I get along with least well suddenly offers me the DR out of the blue ... to a PC, it is suspicious. That's not the sort of thing you just up and offer to a random person you don't like very much.

 

But again, this is all in the differences in how we each play and perceive the different characters. I know a lot of people really like Morrigan. I just don't.

[Ryzaki]

And it all comes back to trusting Morrigan which my characters generally don't. She doesn't make herself trustworthy. I understand that this is because I as a player can't stand her so I never end up running with her in my party any longer than I have to and I don't spend a lot of time talking to her. But the end result is that the party member I get along with least well suddenly offers me the DR out of the blue ... to a PC, it is suspicious. That's not the sort of thing you just up and offer to a random person you don't like very much.

 

But again, this is all in the differences in how we each play and perceive the different characters. I know a lot of people really like Morrigan. I just don't.

 

Yep I'm in your boat. Though I drag her around and that doesn't really do her any favors.

[javeart]

And it all comes back to trusting Morrigan which my characters generally don't. She doesn't make herself trustworthy. I understand that this is because I as a player can't stand her so I never end up running with her in my party any longer than I have to and I don't spend a lot of time talking to her. But the end result is that the party member I get along with least well suddenly offers me the DR out of the blue ... to a PC, it is suspicious. That's not the sort of thing you just up and offer to a random person you don't like very much.

 

But again, this is all in the differences in how we each play and perceive the different characters. I know a lot of people really like Morrigan. I just don't.

 

I'm there with you. Even if I like Morrigan as a character and if I'm pretty sure the OGB plot it's going to end just fine, I just don't see how could my Warden trust her and the risk of doing so seems to be just too high. I could more easily play a Warden that simply puts her (and alistair's) survival above anything, that a Wrden than trust her in such a delicate issue 

[Sarcastic Tasha]

I think the ending has to fit the rest of the story. If I'm watching Generic Action Movie 3 I expect it to end with Bruce Willis killing the baddie, saving the girl and riding off into the sunset.

 

I don't dislike a grim ending. I quite recently played a game where at the end it turns out you've inadvertently been working for the baddies and all the time you thought you were saving the world you were actually dooming it (I won't say what game it is or give any more information about it because I don't want to spoil it for anyone who might play it). I'm sure there were people who really hated that ending but I loved it. I really didn't see it coming but it fit with the story and I thought it was a fantastic twist. I also really liked the endings for Farcry 3 and Spec Ops: The line because they fit really well with the rest of the story (I even actually prefer what people would probably describe as the "bad ending" for Farcry 3 because for me it makes most sense).

 

Dragon Age and Mass Effect put a large emphasis on choice and consequences. I think if the ending doesn't reflect that then its going to ring hollow. As others have said I think a range of endings is probably the best way to go. But I must admit I'm not sure about the 100% perfect ending. If there's a 100% perfect ending then anything else I do feels like I've lost to be honest. Also it would make it seem like some choices were wrong (sometimes I thought Mass Effect was favouring the paragon choices and missing opportunities for renegade choices to have a positive affect in the long run) when I think its more interesting if most choices aren't wrong or right just different. I don't think you should get a super happy ending just because you did everything, was nice to everyone and rescued all the kittens that were stuck in trees. Origins did a pretty good job. It was a mostly happy ending (though lots of people had died obviously) and you get the choice to make what seemed like a fairly shady deal in order to cheat death (consequences for that choice might make an appearance in DA:I?).

 

One of my favourite parts of Mass Effect 3 was the Krogan storyline

Spoiler

choosing to sabotage the genophage can lead to Shepard killing two of her former team mates which was grim but I thought it really worked for the story and even though there were some pretty negative consequences there I didn't really feel like I'd done something wrong because I'd gained the support of the Salarians and prevented a future threat from the Krogans.