It's only been a decade, so Bhelen would definitely still be ruling. No clue about Harrowmont.
Yea, Bhelen I imagine is going to be ruling for a long time and even if he dies his line will most likely take the throne once again. I was mainly referring to Harrowmont as he dies eventually. After a decade I figure there would be a new king after Harrowmont but who knows.
IRRC, several Thaigs may have already been reclaimed, depending on player actions. I know Kal'Hirol gets reclaimed after DAA, and I think Bhelen gets a few more if you give him the Anvil or support from the surface lands.
To further add to this, what if you let the Architect live, and his influence ended up spreading over the Darkspawn? Depending on how things played out, the newly-sentient Darkspawn could either prove to be amiable to truce, if not outright peace, or the dwarves will end up with an even more dangerous foe on their doorstep.
I could see them needing help either way.
Here is something I'm interested in. I wonder if you spare the Architect in Awakening, will he and his fellow Awakened Darkspawn offer assistance. They are smart enough to know that the Breach is a threat to everything, including them, and the Taint is a powerful weapon against demons according to Avernus.
Why not?
Pragmatical reasoning: Once the darkspawn finish off the dwarves, they'll emerge unopposed onto the surface. Which is bad.
Moral reasoning: It would be hypocritical and selfish to abandon the dwarves to their fate when they're not needed. Dwarves are people too.
The way I see it the dwarves got just as screwed over by the Tevinter Imperium as the elves, it was just done more indirectly. The Imperium's experimentation with magic is, after all, what started the blights and the blights are what killed off most of the dwarves.
I find it interesting that despite being portrayed as a rather grumpy lot, the dwarves never seems resentful about their fate, angry about it sure, wanting it to change, definitely, but never really resentful, not like the elves are, at least. Even though they basically got hit by the DA equivalent of the Geth and the genophage all in one go (mild exposure to the Blight severely decreases fertility) and unlike in other works of fiction, none of it was really their fault.
Most people support Bhelen.
They do? Which people? Perhaps a disproportionate number of people on this forum do, because they compare epilogues, but I'm still not sure it would be most. Orzammar dwarves? I thought most dwarves with castes supported Harrowmont, aside from that one merchant. The casteless dwarves don't talk about Bhelen. I'm not sure there's much of a compelling reason to support Bhelen if you're not a dwarf commoner, or a poorly adjusted serial killer like Zevran.
I played a dwarf commoner once. It gave me a compelling reason to support Bhelen in that playthrough and plenty of reasons not to care when I supported Harrowmont in other playthroughs. **** Orzammar! Orzammar dwarves suck.
But I suppose I'd still lend Orzammar aid in their fight against the Darkspawn. I would do the same for the Tevinter against the Qunari. How do I reconcile this with my belief that Orzammar can burn for all I care? I don't. I'm capricious AF, I guess.
I find it interesting that despite being portrayed as a rather grumpy lot, the dwarves never seems resentful about their fate, angry about it sure, wanting it to change, definitely, but never really resentful, not like the elves are, at least. Even though they basically got hit by the DA equivalent of the Geth and the genophage all in one go (mild exposure to the Blight severely decreases fertility) and unlike in other works of fiction, none of it was really their fault.
The dwarves in Orzammar are sovereign over their own nation, unlike the elves. Surface dwarves aren't a stigmatized minority, or at least aren't subject to nearly as much nonsense as elves (city elf or Dalish). Kal-Sharok dwarves are resentful (of Orzammar dwarves), but I don't think we've met any.
I'm also not sure their fertility situation is as dire as that of the krogan. Their species has been in decline for generations. In Mass Effect, there were living krogan who still had memories of their race's fertility being drastically reduced and seeing the krogan population rapidly decline.
Clearly the dwarves need help, but I thought they specifically refused to ask for it prior to DA:O.
Considering their choke hold on the lyrium trade and the many endeavors of the Merchant's Guild, including basically robbing the Anderfels blind, I don't think the dwarves need topside money. They need bodies to fight the darkspawn, but who can spare that considering what's going on with the surface right now? The fact is, the darkspawn are not the immediate threat, or at least I wouldn't assume they're anywhere near it without further evidence.
I'd help them if they agree to demolish the caste system.
I'm surprised to see some people even suggest abandoning them to their fate because of their oppressive tradition or because their dire need of Golem and morally wrong Anvil of the Void.
They deserve aid because the Dwarves are the only thing standing between the Darkspawn and the surface, the only thing that delay the Blight and keep darkspawn in check. Beside they are people too, it's funny but a lot of "goody two shoes" would abandon the dwarves just to spite their high society and their oppressive tradition thus dooming entire races.
I find it ironic that every Human nation or the Chantry always talks high about good principle, good morality, being fair and generous. Yet they have an oppressive culture of their own. Human can be hypocritical and selfish, and unfortunately selfish enough to not see that the Dwarves are the last fortress that kept the Darkspawn from emerge unopposed onto the surface.
Considering they don't take kindly to other races snooping round their underground kingdom much they won't accept help easily. They could use some extra muscle down there of course but being so proud and secretive as they are I can't see it happening soon. I supported Bhelan also, he is the more progressive choice and I'm hoping will bring the Orzammar dwarfs into a more modern age with improved relations with surfacers and by making the caste system more flexible. He is the better choice as a ruler IMO even though as a person I find him vile to say the least.
The surface nations, however, do support the Grey Wardens. The group that's immune to the taint, knows the Deep Roads, and is made up of expert warriors. If the nations of Thedas wanted to help the dwarves, their best bet would be to constantly feed criminals and supplies to the Wardens.
It could work, but the problem is not everyone is ready to face the hard life of the Grey Wardens even if it means your past crime are forgiven but knowing that your lifespan are shortened. You are also haunted by nightmares of the Archdemon, and you'll never settle for a normal life because eventually the calling will draws you to the Deep Roads.
They could flee after the joining and eventually the calling will draws them to the Darkspawn, but what good are they if you have to wait for the calling to call those cowardly criminals recruit back to fight the Darkspawn. Also If I remember correctly there are one ending that you could get Ferelden's aid in battling the darkspawn and it went rather well if you pick the right ruler for Orzammar.
Frankly, I'm little worried since we won't be able to visit Orzammar in DAI. I hope they won't dismiss our choices in Origins, the choices that involved with who rules Orzammar, what happen to the Anvil of the Void or did Dwarven hero request aid in battling darkspawn in the Deep Roads to a mere rumor.
Aiding the dwarves is in the best interests of Thedas. If Orzammar falls, then there will be no one left in the Deep Roads to oppose the darkspawn. Raids on the surface will intensify.
I wonder if the Dwarves would be okay with us clearing out the Deep Roads near an ocean, then mine until we hit said ocean. That would flood the Deep Roads and drown the Darkspawn.
I wonder if the Dwarves would be okay with us clearing out the Deep Roads near an ocean, then mine until we hit said ocean. That would flood the Deep Roads and drown the Darkspawn.
Preferably a really deep ocean, maybe GRRM will let the dwarves dig near his tears of fans ocean.
I wonder if the Dwarves would be okay with us clearing out the Deep Roads near an ocean, then mine until we hit said ocean. That would flood the Deep Roads and drown the Darkspawn.
If that worked, it would also destroy Orzamarr.
And Kal-Sharok, and Kal' Hirol. I think someone has a thing against the Dwarves.
If that worked, it would also destroy Orzamarr.
And do who knows what to the surface, as the water washed away the support structures of countless cave systems, causing sinkholes and new lakes and oceans to pop up all over the world.
I've pondered that very same notion. Maria has a point, though. Even if the water could later be evacuated (no mean feet), the damage to the ecosystem, at the very least, would leave the underground entirely uninhabitable. I've also thought of asphyxiation. It's my understanding, that a very ancient and complex ventilation system is employed underground. The ecology, obviously, developed there prior to that systems construction. But the darkspawn do not predate it, and thus may rely on it. Maybe shutting it down is the answer? That is if the darkspawn breath at all.I wonder if the Dwarves would be okay with us clearing out the Deep Roads near an ocean, then mine until we hit said ocean. That would flood the Deep Roads and drown the Darkspawn.
If that worked, it would also destroy Orzamarr.
Really? I always saw Orzammar as built on a higher level than the rest of the Deep Roads due to being in a mountain.
And Kal-Sharok, and Kal' Hirol. I think someone has a thing against the Dwarves.
Not at all. Sure I hate their caste system, but that's it really. As I said I saw the last two cities as higher up due to being located in mountain ranges.
And do who knows what to the surface, as the water washed away the support structures of countless cave systems, causing sinkholes and new lakes and oceans to pop up all over the world.
True. Well, guess we'll have to live with the Darkspawn since I see no other way that will really get rid of them permanently. Then again I'm hoping Architect succeeds in making them friendly or at least isolationist instead of hostile.
Well, preventing a city of a few thousand people from being wiped out is a noble cause.
And I wouldn't mind having a place to strike at the darkspawn where they live.
If you take it to individual levels, I'm sure that there are plenty dwarven individuals that deserve respect and assistance. If you take them and their society as a whole then no.
Their society was and might still be more or less sick ( depending on who you put on the throne in DA:O). They still have to develop on the social side. Condemning generations of innocent people because of an ancestor that stole a lough of bread or killed someone is disgusting and should not be encouraged.
The best thing a commoner could do is go on the surface and let those nobles rot...or a mass revolution (note: that is if Bhelen is not king).
That was the more moral, personal opinion. If I am to bring forth the more pragmatic side of me I would say yes. The surface needs some canon foder to keep the darkspawn at bay and they also need them to obtain lyrium. If by helping them they can furture help themselves, then the surfacers should help the dwarves...not because the dwarven society, as a whole, deserves it, but because its in their best interest.
Not at all. Sure I hate their caste system, but that's it really. As I said I saw the last two cities as higher up due to being located in mountain ranges.
Understood. I don't like their caste system or their oppressive tradition too, but I personally think while flood the Deep Roads may be one effective way to wipe the Darkspawn out it's too risky to every inhabited thaigs and the surface world.
I guess we have to gamble our chance with the Architect or find the other way to wipe the Darkspawn.
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