213 réponses à ce sujet

[SolNebula]

@ Psychevore

 

I think you got the main issue with the whole exploration thing. It needs to be contenxtualized and better integrated into the story. ME1 exploration felt "boring" because we had load of planets disconnected from the main story where you couldn't achieve anything meaningful other than secondary quests.

 

But IF instead of having 10 random planets like ME1 you have 5-6 key planets where you do the main quest and actually explore the planet in a freedom similar to ME1 how that would sound?

Practical example: Eden Prime, Ilos, Noveria Therum and Feros instead of being just "main quest" planets are complete planets (meaning vast and detailed areas) for you to explore and visit finding secret zones and secondary quests while doing the main quest. Isn't now exploration fun and contextualized into the main game?

 

Exploration only add replayability in my book.

For what we have seen I hope they go the DA:I route, having 4-5 huge areas (planets) to explore and do the main quests as well as the secondary ones. I hope we can extend our control to areas of the planet through camp-bases and fortify the Alliance (or any organization we work for) grip over the planet through our questing. Wouldn't that be fun?

 

Example:

In the beginning you see a planet full of pirates and mercenaries but due to our "heroic" actions we change the planet situation with Alliance marines patrolling it or even better we strike a deal with some pirate leaders and the planet is infested by them making it a perfect outcome for a Renegade player (our companion will react to this). By doing this our actions shape the environment  around us making exploration meaningful. How? Let's say you reach a planet and both the Alliance and the Pirates want it. You help the Alliance? You can explore certain areas and access different equpments you wouldn't have if you instead decided to help the Pirates (the contrary is also true). Something like this....I hope I explained myself well...English is not my native language

[dlux]

Your opinion = the fans opinion = my mind blown
 
The exploration part was poorly implemented but it wasn't boring. I was not happy at ALL that it got removed in ME2 and ME3 because the game became a simple gallery shooter. I was expecting for them to improve that feature and not to remove it outright. So I'm happy they are bringing it BACK.

Your opinion blows my mind too...

The exploration in ME1 was boring because of the constant herpa derping around to collect resources, it got real old real fast.

That said, please tell us how you think Bioware could actually improve upon the extremely boring "exploration" in ME1. That would be more constructive than your moaning about my opinion.
 

Again speak for yourself. I loved the feeling of exploring uncharted planets and feeling like a true space explorer. They should improve over this ambitious idea.

I wrote that it is my opinon.

Mako exploration was boring in ME1 and it will be boring in ME4 if Bioware implements it in the same way. There are many ways to implement good exploration in a game, herpa derping around in a huge area with the Mako to repeatedly pick space flowers is not one of them. Checking out numerous unique and interesting locations is what I consider to be exploring.
 

Derelict space station and "secret" Place overrun by metroids? How original nobody had such innovative idea (Dead Space 1,2,3 - several missions on ME franchise - Alien franchise) you certainly are an innovative guy

Just some simple ideas off the top of my head. But feel free to think up something better.

Oh wait, I already know what you want, you want to do drive around with the Mako just like in ME1. ^^

[dlux]

In the beginning you see a planet full of pirates and mercenaries but due to our "heroic" actions we change the planet situation with Alliance marines patrolling it or even better we strike a deal with some pirate leaders and the planet is infested by them making it a perfect outcome for a Renegade player (our companion will react to this). By doing this our actions shape the environment  around us making exploration meaningful. How? Let's say you reach a planet and both the Alliance and the Pirates want it. You help the Alliance? You can explore certain areas and access different equpments you wouldn't have if you instead decided to help the Pirates (the contrary is also true). Something like this....I hope I explained myself well...English is not my native language

You don't want a Mass Effect game, you want a Borderlands game.

[SolNebula]

You don't want a Mass Effect game, you want a Borderlands game.

that is the direction DA Inquisition is going. I want meaningful choices, dynamic environment shaped by our actions. I want our choice to matter in the universe. You seems to want a plain tps with a shooting gallery level design and not an action rpg

[It's Vexion]

I think it was already summarized quite well by SolNebula. The planetary exploration in Mass Effect was part of the original idea -- so saying wanting that feature back makes it a Borderlands game is ludicrous. It was part of the original idea. The mechanic could be improved by adding variations in design, context, and features. The MAKO's controls should also be improved from it was before.

 

If you think about it, those changes are pretty simple and straightforward.

[Jos Hendriks]

Lets keep things civilized, everyone. We all have opinions and they all differ to some degree.

 

The controls and physics of the Mako were never a problem, at least not the major one, the problem was the boring exploration.  The fans were generally pretty happy that this boring exploration was removed in ME2, so why are you bringing it back?

 

Anyway, I do think it would be cool if the Mako would return, It would be great if we were able to use the Mako during a mission (like on Noveria in ME1) or to reach a specific destination. However, I don't think that driving around in the Mako while trying to find places of interest, or to find and collect resources or pick space flowers, would be fun.   I'd rather explore very interesting locales, like a derelict space station or a secret facility overrun by metroids. 

 

I appreciate you sharing your opinion, but please don't presume to speak for anyone but yourself. It keeps the discussion focused on what people like and dislike rather than who speaks for who, which isn't productive.

 

When talking about exploration the vehicle itself is just one aspect of it. Of course the terrain and the things you can find and do while exploring are another important aspect of the experience, and it's not something that's just going to come back as it was in ME1. Your opinion and experience is obviously very valid though, and I think we could do better with it.

[dreamgazer]

That said, please tell us how you think Bioware could actually improve upon the extremely boring "exploration" in ME1.

Speed and improved physics for the Mako are already a big step in the right direction.

[Fufunette]

I'm happy Mako is back. I only hope worlds will be more interesting than in ME1. In ME1, exploring was boring because worlds were empty.

 

Look at our world. Even in wildest and most dangerous place, there's always people living or searching adventures. Why in ME worlds, everybody stays in colonies, or in wild world's bunkers....?

 

And it should have more animals than pyjak or tresh maws..... Every world can have different life forms....

[dlux]

Lets keep things civilized, everyone. We all have opinions and they all differ to some degree.
 
 
I appreciate you sharing your opinion, but please don't presume to speak for anyone but yourself. It keeps the discussion focused on what people like and dislike rather than who speaks for who, which isn't productive.
 
When talking about exploration the vehicle itself is just one aspect of it. Of course the terrain and the things you can find and do while exploring are another important aspect of the experience, and it's not something that's just going to come back as it was in ME1. Your opinion and experience is obviously very valid though, and I think we could do better with it.

Sorry, it wasn't supposed to come across that way. I don't have a problem with exploration, I have a problem with how it was implemented in ME1 and am concerned on how it might be implemented in the next Mass Effect game. I am not exactly sure what you guys are planning for ME4, but it seems to me that you want to make Mass Effect more open world than the previous games.
 
Let me explain myself better: 
My idea of exploration seems to differ from the views of a few others here (I hope I understood most of them correctly). I don't consider repeatedly driving around in arbitrary directions, in extremely large and generic open areas, to pick up resources, find minor locations, run over and shoot space bugs or climbing driving up that mountain, while uncovering the map in the hope that I might find the next copy-pasted cave with useless items, to be good exploration. In my opinion, that gets real old, real fast, especially when there is nothing really interesting to find because the entire world and it's content is or feels copy-pasted, other than maybe few major locations. There is a reason why Skyrim is frowned upon by some gamers (including myself) as a "hiking simulator".
I like open areas and I would like to drive through them, because diversification is always good, but I wouldn't want dumped on the surface of the planet for the 50th time in a row to repeat the aforementioned. 
 
I consider exploration to be the ability to check out many unique and compelling locations full of interesting and diversified content. In the case of Mass Effect, also on many different planets. Of course maybe also with the Mako, because the Mako is awesome. For example, maybe you would need the Mako to explore an intricate cave system to find something (lets say a very special artifact). You can of course also explore those caves even further to find some hidden items or something you weren't even expecting at all. Maybe you even need to upgrade your Mako to even fully explore those caves... This is what I consider to be exploration.
It doesn't have to be a bunch of caves though, maybe you have to zoom across a planet with the Mako so that your party can reach an enemy facility which is heavily protected by an antiaircraft defence system, and need to explore the planet to find the correct path. I also love the Kodiak Drop Shuttle, what about that? Maybe we could use it on a planets with surfaces not suitable for the Mako. We also don't always need to drive with the Mako or fly with the Kodiak, I would also like to explore a derelict space station, or something very cool like that, on foot.
 
Those are my concerns and thoughts. Thank you for responding to my last post and reading this one. I appreciate it.

[dlux]

that is the direction DA Inquisition is going. I want meaningful choices, dynamic environment shaped by our actions. I want our choice to matter in the universe. You seems to want a plain tps with a shooting gallery level design and not an action rpg

Now you're just being melodramatic.

None of the Mass Effect games were like shooting galleries and none of them were simple third-person-shooters. You're also not being very productive at all by bashing ME2 and ME3 simply because they didn't have any "super awesome" Mako driving/exploration or open world Skyrim mechanics and therefore by your definition, weren't true (action) RPGs.

And please, tone down your hostility, I am just posting my opinion from my perspective. And stop jumping to conclusions, I never wrote that I don't like the Mako and just want to run through corridors shooting space bugs, I wrote that I don't like how exploration was implemented in ME1 and don't want that in ME4. You seem to have a problem understanding that.

[KaiserShep]

As long as I'm not forced into the wheeled deathtrap for long periods I'm fine.

 

Death trap? The Mako? In the words of James Franco: "It's a f*cking fortress!"

 

 

Your opinion blows my mind too...

The exploration in ME1 was boring because of the constant herpa derping around to collect resources, it got real old real fast.

That said, please tell us how you think Bioware could actually improve upon the extremely boring "exploration" in ME1. That would be more constructive than your moaning about my opinion.
 
I wrote that it is my opinon.

Mako exploration was boring in ME1 and it will be boring in ME4 if Bioware implements it in the same way. There are many ways to implement good exploration in a game, herpa derping around in a huge area with the Mako to repeatedly pick space flowers is not one of them. Checking out numerous unique and interesting locations is what I consider to be exploring.
 
Just some simple ideas off the top of my head. But feel free to think up something better.

Oh wait, I already know what you want, you want to do drive around with the Mako just like in ME1. ^^

 

 

We have little reason to assume that BioWare will implement planetary exploration the same way. It's very unlikely that they'd bother to bring back the futzing about surveying lumps of rock with a Simon-like minigame, just as we won't likely see a return of the vast empty terrains with an assortment of skyboxes, with only roving bands of mercs or privateers and the occasional thresher maw to spice things up. I mean, they did get rid of that stuff for a reason. We can't really use ME1 as the standard for what to expect, because more than likely, the game will be next-gen, allowing the developers to create a lot more with the environments.

[felipejiraya]

HERETIC!

[AdmiralBoneToPic]

Why can't they include both the Mako AND the Hammerhead and Kodiak?(i mean different planets would presumbaly have differing terrains/gravity levels/atmosphers(i hope they do, Always bothered me in ME1 how similiar these worlds were), in terms of immersion it'd be better & more believable as not every world would suit merely one type of vechicle)

But i hope they keep the planetory exploration/anomalies from ME2 into ME4(but give us more of them, expand on'em. Also give us more loyalty like side missions too. Loved those in ME2. Really made the game for/universe for me). It was all varied and every location was unique, felt different. The side-missions/planetory exploration was quite fleshed out/varied too and every location had a purpose. The world felt so alive, a living galaxy because of that. I really fell in love with the universe then.

It wasn't just pointless fluff, it wasn't repetitive copy n paste filler envioronmnets with the same "missions"(i use that word loosely) and just a dfferent procedurallly generated skybox. ME2 what it was... was quality over quantity. If they go back to ME1 style of planetory exploration of just aimlessly roaming that'd be a major step backwards & regression imo. The galaxy in ME2 felt way more real & lived in because of that. Just because ME1 was superficially bigger(just) doesn't mean its better. Just because it had more "RPG elements"(if you can even call'em that. tbh you can't really call'em that, just like ME1's planet "exploration" you can't really call it that. It was pointless in the end. ME1 was all about the illusion of choice & redundant numbers)...Doesn't mean ME2 was somehow a lesser RPG. ME4 needs to take more cues and ideas from it imo. If they're just gonna re-do ME1 & pander to the RPG purist snobs i think BW are making a huge mistake. There's a reason most gamers regard Mass Effect 2 as the best of the series and one of the greatest games ever made.

 

Still as long as the Mako isn't just dumped in:

a) the same featureless rock squares, with the same buildings, with the same enemies

or

a long winding road punctuated by enemy chokepoints (i.e. oh! this is a main quest mission!)

Then that is ok.

People have a certain romantic opinion of ME1's /planetory eploration/side missions, where they were in fact the most cullable part of the games. Not saying planet scanning was any better either. Both equally dull distractions.

At least the bespoke landing missions in ME2 and the DLC vehicle ones actually added some personality. Fingers crossed things are in that style.

[Obadiah]

I rather have Mako exploration back. Mako exploration added serendipity to the game - stumbling across hideouts you weren't looking for, finding abandoned areas that told a little mini-story of tragic adventures while exploring the far reaches of the unknown. It added a real sense of exploration to the game. I don't play a whole lotta driving games, so I adapted pretty quickly to the control schemes on the XBox and PC.

I don't remember half the planet maps (except for Eletania, and Armstrong Nebula planets) so the I get a sense of exploring when I replay ME1.

I was disappointed that vehicular exploration got dumped for ME2s arcade missions in the Hammerhead, but you know what, for what those were (and that they were free) I enjoyed those too. As far as arcade-type missions in the Mako, the Noveria drive to Peak 15 and the Virmire approach to STG are two of my favorite parts of the ME1.

[Gonder]

You need to watch the panel man, they're doing a great deal of work on the Mako to ensure that is something that everybody will be able to enjoy. They definitely know how infamous the Mako could become at times in Mass Effect 1, and they are doing all that they can to correct the issues that it had, maneuverability being one of the largest factors there. The new Mako's top speed will be greatly increased over the first, it will allow personal customisation, giving it an even greater chance of growing on the player personally, however, the state of the vehicle's weapons have me a bit baffled at the moment. They removed the cannon from the top of the vehicle, which was undeniably one of the most enjoyable features of the original Mako. I wonder what they will do in compensation for this? They may have explained this already, it has been over a week since I watched the panel. 

 

By the way, in relation to the Hammerhead, the thing was definitely fast and a lot easier to get around, though other than that, it was made out of paper mache, the thing would go up in flames after a few bullet hits. From what I saw, the new Mako will very much be a ground equivalent of the Hammerhand, rivaling it in speed and maneuverability, as its boosters will also be making a return from the first Mako, and it will also be a lot more hardy, though I'm not sure how much it will rival the original Mako in that department. I'm just interested to see how it will handle climbing.

[Jos Hendriks]

Sorry, it wasn't supposed to come across that way. I don't have a problem with exploration, I have a problem with how it was implemented in ME1 and am concerned on how it might be implemented in the next Mass Effect game. I am not exactly sure what you guys are planning for ME4, but it seems to me that you want to make Mass Effect more open world than the previous games.
 
Let me explain myself better: 
My idea of exploration seems to differ from the views of a few others here (I hope I understood most of them correctly). I don't consider repeatedly driving around in arbitrary directions, in extremely large and generic open areas, to pick up resources, find minor locations, run over and shoot space bugs or climbing driving up that mountain, while uncovering the map in the hope that I might find the next copy-pasted cave with useless items, to be good exploration. In my opinion, that gets real old, real fast, especially when there is nothing really interesting to find because the entire world and it's content is or feels copy-pasted, other than maybe few major locations. There is a reason why Skyrim is frowned upon by some gamers (including myself) as a "hiking simulator".
I like open areas and I would like to drive through them, because diversification is always good, but I wouldn't want dumped on the surface of the planet for the 50th time in a row to repeat the aforementioned. 
 
I consider exploration to be the ability to check out many unique and compelling locations full of interesting and diversified content. In the case of Mass Effect, also on many different planets. Of course maybe also with the Mako, because the Mako is awesome. For example, maybe you would need the Mako to explore an intricate cave system to find something (lets say a very special artifact). You can of course also explore those caves even further to find some hidden items or something you weren't even expecting at all. Maybe you even need to upgrade your Mako to even fully explore those caves... This is what I consider to be exploration.
It doesn't have to be a bunch of caves though, maybe you have to zoom across a planet with the Mako so that your party can reach an enemy facility which is heavily protected by an antiaircraft defence system, and need to explore the planet to find the correct path. I also love the Kodiak Drop Shuttle, what about that? Maybe we could use it on a planets with surfaces not suitable for the Mako. We also don't always need to drive with the Mako or fly with the Kodiak, I would also like to explore a derelict space station, or something very cool like that, on foot.
 
Those are my concerns and thoughts. Thank you for responding to my last post and reading this one. I appreciate it.

 

I'm going to go ahead and assume for the purposes of the discussion that you mean that the type of exploration you enjoy is the interesting stuff you wrote, as opposed to what exploration *is*. Of course, I agree with you that most of the time, finding something like an intricate cave system in which you can find a rare artifact, is a more compelling experience to have in the spectrum of exploration activities, but I think there is something to be said for exploring a planet surface and finding a couple resources or a minor settlement/base.

 

While I agree with you that too much of anything isn't good, and the threshold for very minor exploration activities like finding resources on a barren landscape being lower than that of a compelling exploration adventure like the aforementioned cave system, I think that smaller doses of quiet, relaxed moments on a planet surface where you come across minor things can be pretty powerful experiences. Yes, that shouldn't be all/most of what you do exploring a planet, like what happened in ME1, but that happening every so often I don't think is a problem at all.

 

There are more compelling things that you could be doing on a planet surface, and I want to see that happen, too. Without digging into it much right now, because it would be going into specifics that we're just not ready for yet, your experience and view of exploration as a game activity/mechanic is not an unknown one, or a disliked/disagreed with one for that matter, and we want to make a great exploration experience.

 

And I appreciate your posting and clarifying your position. It's good information to have, and it's a constructive approach to discourse on here.

[SporkFu]

While I agree with you that too much of anything isn't good, and the threshold for very minor exploration activities like finding resources on a barren landscape being lower than that of a compelling exploration adventure like the aforementioned cave system, I think that smaller doses of quiet, relaxed moments on a planet surface where you come across minor things can be pretty powerful experiences. 

*ahem* ... I'll be in my bunk. 

[Mcfly616]

 I actually like the fact that exploring planets was a bit of a side-mission away from the main story. I certainly don't want every little thing I do in the game to be directly tied to the main plot. That's actually pretty silly and awfully linear.

 

 

I for one, liked investigating seemingly derelict ships. It added an eery element to the cold darkness of space. Again, nothing to do with the central narrative. Mass Effect had something the sequels failed to achieve or even attempted to implement: Atmosphere.

 

 

My biggest hope for the next game (now that exploration has been confirmed to be a big focus) is that they can recapture that sense of atmosphere and immersion.

[Ellanya]

 I actually like the fact that exploring planets was a bit of a side-mission away from the main story. I certainly don't want every little thing I do in the game to be directly tied to the main plot. That's actually pretty silly and awfully linear.

 

 

I for one, liked investigating seemingly derelict ships. It added an eery element to the cold darkness of space. Again, nothing to do with the central narrative. Mass Effect had something the sequels failed to achieve or even attempted to implement: Atmosphere.

 

 

My biggest hope for the next game (now that exploration has been confirmed to be a big focus) is that they can recapture that sense of atmosphere and immersion.

Agreed.

Atmosphere!  Only in the ME-1  I felt  empty and infinity Universe and my own loneliness in the lost worlds. I love ME 2 and 3, but they didn't gave me so amazing feeling. 

[Barrett Rodych]

Mass Effect will continue to have oxygen. ATMOSPHERE CONFIRMED

[SporkFu]

Mass Effect will continue to have oxygen. ATMOSPHERE CONFIRMED

So the helmet toggle will be back? He asked, in an obvious attempt to extract information. 

[AlanC9]

Agreed.
Atmosphere!  Only in the ME-1  I felt  empty and infinity Universe and my own loneliness in the lost worlds. I love ME 2 and 3, but they didn't gave me so amazing feeling.

I agree that atmospehere wasn't present in ME2 and ME3. But I never saw any reason why it should have been. Jack Bauer doesn't spend much time wandering around the Alaskan wilderness.

[Mcfly616]

Jack Bauer isn't starring in a sci fi videogame charting courses across the galaxy.

[Oni Changas]

I'd like a bit of both. Some as the ME2 style where you find a somewhat linear mission and some like ME1 where you get to exlore a derelict ship or town and uncover the story behind the accident or incident. The shuttle sounds like a cool idea as well.

[Fufunette]

Mass Effect will continue to have oxygen. ATMOSPHERE CONFIRMED

You made my day. xD