183 réponses à ce sujet

[Soultaker08]

Feels like Summer 2012

 

[Iakus]

Feels like Summer 2012

 

Bioware wanted endings the players would talk about.

 

Wish granted 

[Pateu]

Canonizing the Indoctrination Theory is also a cop-out.  It invalidates the ending of Mass Effect 3 by just saying, "It was all a hallucination."  Just because you agree with the Indoctrination Theory, it doesn't suddenly mean that it is a flawless solution.

 

Didn't say it is.

 

But '' It was a dream, the Star Kid ain't real and the Crucible blew up the Reapers '' is still better than the Star Kid existing and the green space magic beam.

 

Also the star kid says a new solution is needed yet if you shoot him he still harvests the galaxy.

 

Reaperlogic.

[Han Shot First]

You sound like the government when it comes to UFO sightings.

"Coincidence.

Coincidence.

Coincidence."

Something that repetitive is no longer a coincidence.

 

 

I trust this guy:

 

 

 

....more than this guy:

 

 

[Tonymac]

I can see that Bioware does need to sharpen its pencils on this issue.  Some of us have lost faith in Bioware; they do not have the ability to end a trilogy in a manner befitting such an epic tale.  The ending is a touchy subject to a lot of us.  Some like, some did not, blah blah blah.  However, Bioware will need to recognize that how ME:Next begins will put them into the fracas yet again.  

 

If they don't shape up they will lose more fans.  Some of us are here mostly just to see if Bioware can get it together.  There was some good in the series, and some fun.  I might stick with them if they can get some good writers - but I am on the fence.  Sometimes great writers and directors make bad movies or books, you know - it just happens.  We can move past it, or just drop off of the grid as far as a certain storyline / movie series is concerned.  If the offense is bad enough, you just never see movies from Director X or get books from Writer Y.  

 

As far as I am concerned, Bioware is on strike three-and-a-half.  I'm not warm and receptive to ME:Next.  I saw some great concept designs for the new Hero and the Mako - the stuff looked really good.  But in the back of my mind I will always wonder about what writing they are doing.  Why get into another series if they will just end it with minimal effort and inventiveness again?  I will watch how Bioware makes ME:Next from a great distance.  If they can't even start it off correctly though, then there is no point at all in paying any more attention to it.

[KroganSoul]

What?

we have a 4chan bum on this forum.

[JoltDealer]

Didn't say it is.

 

But '' It was a dream, the Star Kid ain't real and the Crucible blew up the Reapers '' is still better than the Star Kid existing and the green space magic beam.

 

Also the star kid says a new solution is needed yet if you shoot him he still harvests the galaxy.

 

Reaperlogic.

 

That's just your opinion.  I'm fine with the extended cut endings, as are several others, but I understand some fans subscribe to the Indoctrination Theory as well.  The Extended Cut Endings are canon, but the Indoctrination Theory is a fanmade theory that has never been validated by Bioware.  Casey Hudson has even said that he stands by the original endings because they are polarizing and he considers them memorable.

 

If your enjoyment of the next game hinges on Bioware canonizing the Indoctrination Theory, the odds are not in your favor and you're likely to be sorely disappointed.

[Azmahoony]

Ye renegade was destroy regardless of it being andersons choice, renegades always been about sacrificing for the greater good no matter the cost.

The control part being paragon makes me feel like the paragon'ers got shafted bigtime - as both play styles have always had the same ultimate goal.. destroying the reapers.

This whole paragon = good renegade = bad argument is a load of bollocks, ive always played renegade/rene'gon and its never been that black and white - you're an idiot if you think it is.


Synthesis was pissweak and I would personally wallop the bloke(s) involved making that option viable and trying to force it down our throats as the 'perfect scenario'. Friggin beam of light changes every organics entire DNA structure instantly and galaxy wide.. come on ffs what a load of ****, inevitable? Dw about evolution when theres a machine that can quickly switch up the very fabric of it in an instant - no worries makes heaps of sense.

Did you blokes even know where you were going with it?

[Azmahoony]

Btw with ME4 if everyones not glowing green then I guess synthesis wasnt canon? Even though it was the devs desired ending.. And if its set in a different universe then we definetly wont see any familiar faces - but they've also stated theres a possibility you will so... it shall be interesting.

[Pateu]

Ye renegade was destroy regardless of it being andersons choice, renegades always been about sacrificing for the greater good no matter the cost.

 

Renegade has been about self gain/greater good no matter who gets trampled. And that's Control. Shepard becomes immortal, gets rid of the Reaper threat and gains an immortal, invincible army that he can use whenever he pleases.

 

Renegade Shepard would never choose Destroy for the sole reason that The Kid tells him he will die, too. Control makes him immortal and gives him an army, Destroy kills him and nukes technology.

 

It is clear Control is the Renegade ending.

 

Destroy is Paragon because it permanently removes the Reaper threat and the Galaxy does not have to live in fear '' what if the reapers return one day?! '' they're gone. All husks are dead, no longer abominations trapped in that body till they are spent.

 

The geth die, sure, but they're just machines. They can be rebuilt. Their memories are just numbers.

[SilJeff]

That has nothing to do with what I asked.

 

The guy that was monitoring the beam said no one got through. Shepard runs to the beam yet doesn't see Anderson go in and Archer doesn't, either.

 

Anderson said he went in after Shepard did. Shepard doesn't have eyes in the back of his head, so he couldn't have watched Anderson go up. And since they didn't end up in the same place, that's where my point about the hallways and the room shifting comes in. Why doesn't the guy mention Anderson? I don't know.

 

lol.

 

I take that as you don't have a refute. It IS a coincidence, nothing more.

 

No, it means TIM could control Husks.

 

Shepard faced Saren, Sovereign, Harbinger, Collectors, Rannoch Reaper, Tuchanka Reaper and none of them managed to control him, yet TIM does?

 

No, it means he could control anyone that wasn't as large as the reapers as long as they are in close range. Husks, Humans, etc included. They just hadn't figured out how to extrapolate it to the reapers themselves. Saren hadn't done the research into indoctrinating people that TIM had done. All Saren knows is his saving grace that the more indoctrinated you are = the less useful you are. As for the reapers themselves, none had come into direct contact with Shepard long enough, whereas TIM was right there with him with his upgrades. Even then, Shepard still had his mind intact because he was able to protest what was happening despite losing physical control of his arm. Given enough time, I guarantee you that Shepard would have become one of TIM's flying monkeys.

 

Nah, Renegade would have chosen Control. You become immortal and control every reaper. You become the strongest force in the galaxy with the ability to do whatever you want, whenever you want.

 

Destroy is clearly Paragon, even shown by the fact that Anderson would choose it.

 

 

Anderson choosing something doesn't automatically make it paragon. Hitler was against unempoyment, so does that make choosing to create jobs bad?. Paragons don't kill off entire races. They look for alternatives, which is what Control is. A Renegade would be the one willing to kill off entire races like Destroy had you do.

 

I will admit this much though, there are in fact two different versions of Control depending on your morality, and no other ending has two different forms depending on your morality. If you choose Control after a Renegade playthrough, then yeah, he does take on the role as the leader for the galaxy with a secret police in the reaper army. To quote the renegade Control ending: "To provide the many with a powerful leader; to put an end to the bickering of the many; to ensure the strongest are not feared or reviled for their strength." Yeah, I will admit that isn't a paragon action. However, the paragon version is more paragon than Destroy is. To quote the paragon Control ending: "To give the many hope for a future; to ensure that all have a voice in their future. / To right the wrongs of the past; to provide a voice to those too weak to speak for themselves". So yeah, I'll go halfway and say Control is both a renegade ending and a paragon one. If you are doing a renegade playthrough, then Control is more renegade than Destroy, but in a paragon playthrough, Control is more paragon than destroy.

[Aurawolf]

The whole point of the three series was to stop the Reapers yet in ME3 we can stop them, or we can become one with them and make the universe a shiny happy place after billions died and the horrors the Reapers and by proxy our fav Star Child inflicted onto our galaxy is pretty much forgiven. If you ask me any ending in which Reapers aren't blowing up or dead is a cop out.

[Mcfly616]

Man, don't read any sci fi....you may see the whole genre as a "cop-out"

[RiptideX1090]

Renegade has been about self gain/greater good no matter who gets trampled. And that's Control. Shepard becomes immortal, gets rid of the Reaper threat and gains an immortal, invincible army that he can use whenever he pleases.

 

Renegade Shepard would never choose Destroy for the sole reason that The Kid tells him he will die, too. Control makes him immortal and gives him an army, Destroy kills him and nukes technology.

 

It is clear Control is the Renegade ending.

 

Destroy is Paragon because it permanently removes the Reaper threat and the Galaxy does not have to live in fear '' what if the reapers return one day?! '' they're gone. All husks are dead, no longer abominations trapped in that body till they are spent.

 

The geth die, sure, but they're just machines. They can be rebuilt. Their memories are just numbers.

 

While I'm LOATHE to agree with him, Pakau is right on this matter. If you want to know which endings are meant for which alignment, the confrontation with the Rannoch Reaper is most telling. You get three options when you speak with him.

 

The first option is upper right, and has Shepard stating that he wants to destroy the Reapers and let the galaxy live in peace, with an accompanying paragon interrupt.

 

The second option is lower right, and has Shepard stating that the organics are taking control, and can be joined with a Renegade interrupt for good measure.

 

The third is middle left, and has Shepard demanding answers and his stating his belief organics and synthetics can all live in peace.

 

In this context, then, Destroy would be Paragon, Control is Renegade, and Synthesis the MiddleOfTheRoad/Investigate?/3rdWheelOptionIGuess?

[SilJeff]

That makes sense. I still believe that the paragon version of Control is the best outcome for the galaxy\, I won't deny that part about the Rannoch reaper.

 

 

Good Point

[RiptideX1090]

That makes sense. I still believe that the paragon version of Control is the best outcome for the galaxy\, I won't deny that part about the Rannoch reaper.

 

 

Good Point

 

To each their own, of course.

 

Also, can I just note how nice it is to see someone amicably admit someone else might have a point? Sometimes I fear these forums have lost all sense of decorum. Your open-mindedness is refreshing, and I thank you for it.

[OH-UP-THIS!]

Oh if Bioware are even half as capable as I think they are, they'd best AVOID anything even remotely related to the trilogy, apart from the basics of course.(Space, Galactic commerce, politics, vacation destinations lol, you know--- the basics)

 

They couldn't sway in any direction, for fear of alienating anyone that has followed this from inception to finale.

 

As much as I prefer the idea of IT, and its solutions to the last 10 minutes of an engrossing story, it would be a bad decision to implement it, regardless of fan-base rage, because that would be pandering to only one set of believers.

 

For some god forsaken reason, some of you actually like the idea of being turned into a glorified higher functioning husk, that's RELATED to everything organic in the ENTIRE galaxy, WHY?

[Mcfly616]

 

For some god forsaken reason, some of you actually like the idea of being turned into a glorified higher functioning husk, that's RELATED to everything organic in the ENTIRE galaxy, WHY?

 If that's your definition of synthesis, I don't think you have a grasp on the concept.

[RiptideX1090]

 If that's your definition of synthesis, I don't think you have a grasp on the concept.

 

To be fair, no one really understands Synthesis because it's not explained very well. You can make guesses and try to fill in the gaps, but it's not a very defined concept. For instance, we're told synthetics will understand organics, but how is left open to interpretation. That kind of open endedness makes Synthesis rather unquantifiable. The only concrete things we're told about it is that it will end the war, that Shepard will die, everyone will get along, and everything and everyone will be forcibly changed, though how is not exactly stated.

 

So... meh?

[dlux]

1. Canonise indoctrination theory.

Bioware will eventually have to fix ME3 by proclaiming that the events in that game never actually happend.

 

They could state that the events in ME3 were just a dream, or a hallucination, or false memories implanted into Shepards mind by Cerberus for some reason.  I don't care what Bioware thinks of, ME3 just really needs to be fixed.

[FirstBlood XL]

IT Theory would have been a better ending, as it perfectly fits the themes of the series... Whereas, what we received... Which implemented a literally last-minute dues ex machina, that gives two options that completly go against everything laid out in the series.

I don't think anyone argues that BW "meant" IT as the ending, do they? It's clearly a case of BW dropping the ball. They even released internal journals that admitted Indoctrination was to have a larger role in the ending, but couldn't implement it.

[Mcfly616]

To be fair, no one really understands Synthesis because it's not explained very well. You can make guesses and try to fill in the gaps, but it's not a very defined concept. For instance, we're told synthetics will understand organics, but how is left open to interpretation. That kind of open endedness makes Synthesis rather unquantifiable. The only concrete things we're told about it is that it will end the war, that Shepard will die, everyone will get along, and everything and everyone will be forcibly changed, though how is not exactly stated.

 

So... meh?

 To be fair, it's not a new concept at all. It's prevalent in much of modern sci fi. Authors just put their own little twist/interpretation on it. Whether it be transcendence or organic circuitry etc. 

 

No, we will never know the full details of Mass Effect's take on the concept. However, the writers wanted to leave certain things up to your imagination/interpretation, whilst giving us some broad tidbits. I find that understandable and justifiable considering the genre. 

 

 

It's poor magical/fantastical implementation aside (though, I must say there's much weirder stuff going on in most other sci fi than the Crucible converting Shepard's essence into a whole new DNA for the galaxy), synthesis is essentially an allegory to a new beginning/the beginning of life. In real life, every living creature on Earth came from the same place. Plants and animals alike. Everything evolved and branched off from a single common ancestor. We are all connected. 

 

Synthesis, is rewriting DNA to a new origin point in order to include synthetics into the framework. So that everything living in the MEU -plants, animals, organics and synthetics- are connected (hence why you even see organic circuitry on the plants as well). It solves the inherent conflict between the two sides because it is in our nature to destroy  ourselves. So we must change nature. Synthesis does that.

 

 

 

As for what newfound abilities the beings of the galaxy may have.....speculations. It's up to your own perspective. I realize some don't like that type of storytelling, but I'm quite used to it with sci fi and I don't mind. It was heavily influenced by something called Gaia from Foundations Edge by Isaac Asimov. Think of something like in Avatar, where the cat people can connect with the entire planet and it's ecosystem as if it was a living entity.

[Mcfly616]

that gives two options that completly go against everything laid out in the series.
 

 Not really. Control of Reaper tech and it's benefits have been hinted at since ME2 (even a bit in ME1). The correlation between organics and synthetics has been prevalent throughout the entire trilogy. Both came to a head at the end of it all.

 

However, they certainly turned the conflict on it's head. Which isn't unheard of in the least. What you and most people thought was going to be the way to defeat the Reapers all this time, destroying them.....doesn't turn out to be the only way. Having everything you thought you knew turned on it's head and given a different perspective at the last moment isn't unique. Not in the spectrum of all mediums of storytelling.

 

I thought it was nice to see in a videogame for once. Too few and far between in the medium.

[Mcfly616]

I don't think anyone argues that BW "meant" IT as the ending, do they? It's clearly a case of BW dropping the ball. They even released internal journals that admitted Indoctrination was to have a larger role in the ending, but couldn't implement it.

 Yes, anybody who's been around here since the inception of IT and the creation of the Extended Cut knows that IT is NOT the ending Bioware meant. Check page 1 and 2 of this very thread for a discussion on that.

 

The journals you speak of only ever mentioned a gameplay mechanic where Shepard would be fighting indoctrination, but they couldn't implement it in a playable way. It had nothing to do with the story implications put forth by the fan fiction that is known as the Indoctrination Theory.

[RiptideX1090]

 

 

 

As for what newfound abilities the beings of the galaxy may have.....speculations. It's up to your own perspective.

 

Then perhaps you should accept that some people's perspective is that it's thematically an entropic ending where people give up their free will in exchange for peace, and everyone effectively becomes no different than husks.

 

That's the problem with speculative, non-concrete endings. The person you were putting down before you is, by your own admittance, no less right or wrong than you are, because it's up to each individual's perspective thanks to a lack of concrete information.