I never understood that scene, where we see a N7 breath. Because Shepard has lost his armor before he went to the Citadel... And with EC, his LI put his name on the memorial stone so... WHY this scene ? O.O
If you want to show him alive, show it properly... Damn. If he's dead, don't make us hope for nothin' !!! >.< It makes me crazy !
I had always assumed that much of the leftover elements of the original ending couldn't simply be rubbed out, and this scene was one of them. But from what I've read on this forum, there was a disagreement between the writers as to whether or not there should even be a Shepard survival scene, and this ended up being the compromise.
I do not buy into the IT theory, but from what I have read and watched on Youtube, it is intriguing. Do IT theorists believe it occurred at the moment Shepard was zapped by Harbinger on earth prior to his ascension to the CItadel or during his final confrontation with TIM? I ask, because if IT were to have happened following Shepard getting zapped by Harbinger's beam on earth, I assume that nothing from that point forward, including the final choices presented to Shepard would have actually been real, but in his head. If that were the case, it would seem that the Reapers would have continued the cleansing of all advanced species. Am I missing something here?
When I believed in it I thought the scene with the Illusive man was his mild form of indoctrination, which you are able to partially resist through the conversation, but the scene really happened. However after he is dead I thought the entire scene with the star child was Harbingers much more powerful attempt and was entirely in the mind. You had to resist by picking destroy. Control was failing like the illusive man failed, Synthesis was failing like Saren failed. There were all sorts of variations on it though. IMO the EC clearly disproved IT.
I had always assumed that much of the leftover elements of the original ending couldn't simply be rubbed out, and this scene was one of them. But from what I've read on this forum, there was a disagreement between the writers as to whether or not there should even be a Shepard survival scene, and this ended up being the compromise.
But Shepard alive depends on war assets ? So.... I can't understand what's the problem with showing him alive if we played well, or not if we screwd it.
I do not buy into the IT theory, but from what I have read and watched on Youtube, it is intriguing. Do IT theorists believe it occurred at the moment Shepard was zapped by Harbinger on earth prior to his ascension to the CItadel or during his final confrontation with TIM? I ask, because if IT were to have happened following Shepard getting zapped by Harbinger's beam on earth, I assume that nothing from that point forward, including the final choices presented to Shepard would have actually been real, but in his head. If that were the case, it would seem that the Reapers would have continued the cleansing of all advanced species. Am I missing something here?
Nothing is real:
I do not buy into the IT theory, but from what I have read and watched on Youtube, it is intriguing. Do IT theorists believe it occurred at the moment Shepard was zapped by Harbinger on earth prior to his ascension to the CItadel or during his final confrontation with TIM? I ask, because if IT were to have happened following Shepard getting zapped by Harbinger's beam on earth, I assume that nothing from that point forward, including the final choices presented to Shepard would have actually been real, but in his head. If that were the case, it would seem that the Reapers would have continued the cleansing of all advanced species. Am I missing something here?
The ''indoctrination attempt'' starts when Shepard is hit by the beam.
There are a few factors that suggest this:
1. Before the laser beam, the path to the Beam had no vegetation. After Shepard wakes up, the path has vegetation just like in Shepard's dreams ( which are believed to be the effects of his long term exposure to Reapers due to the growling and the black thingies at the perifery of his vision, which you see against TIM ).
2. Archer says no one got through the beam, despite both Shepard and Anderson getting in.
3. Harbinger leaves for no good reason.
4. Anderson getting shot lowers the EMS. This is suggested by Anderson being Shepard's sanity and TIM being the strength of the Indoctrination. If Anderson ( Sanity ) dies, you need more EMS to get the ''Shepard lives'' ending.
5. The colors of the endings being reversed. Destroy is Red, Control is Blue. It's because that's what the Reapers want.
6. Shepard looking like a Husk if choosing Control or Synthesis.
and so on and so on.
As for the ending, why does it have to end? That's a clear inception ending, for IT. It's open ended. You can imagine whatever you feel like. I imagine that in High EMS destroy ( the only one in which Shepard wakes up ) he makes his way to the beam and opens the Citadel, after which a Destroy in which the AIs live plays.
EC disproving IT
If the writers were to say IT is false, I'd believe it.
But EC proves nothing, as EC was not meant to happen. EC was simply created by fan pressure and nothing else.
A desperate attempt to salvage what was left of their fan support.
The ''indoctrination attempt'' starts when Shepard is hit by the beam.
There are a few factors that suggest this:
1. Before the laser beam, the path to the Beam had no vegetation. After Shepard wakes up, the path has vegetation just like in Shepard's dreams ( which are believed to be the effects of his long term exposure to Reapers due to the growling and the black thingies at the perifery of his vision, which you see against TIM ).
2. Archer says no one got through the beam, despite both Shepard and Anderson getting in.
3. Harbinger leaves for no good reason.
4. Anderson getting shot lowers the EMS. This is suggested by Anderson being Shepard's sanity and TIM being the strength of the Indoctrination. If Anderson ( Sanity ) dies, you need more EMS to get the ''Shepard lives'' ending.
5. The colors of the endings being reversed. Destroy is Red, Control is Blue. It's because that's what the Reapers want.
6. Shepard looking like a Husk if choosing Control or Synthesis.
IT is another case of fans seeing meaning in things that have no meaning.
The writers really, genuinely do not put that much symbolism into things like the vegetation of the level. People are seeing meaning (and selective meaning, to boot) in things that are mistakes or oversights. We might not be able to rule out the theory until a developer says so, but I think it's justifiable to keep calling it ridiculous.
A writing team of nine people (and whatever story QA they do) is never going to pick up on all the assumptions that people could make from the ending, especially when people on the BSN became conspiratorial and went looking for things that supported whatever they wanted to believe.
(The same thing occurred with the "relays exploding and everyone starving" implications of the ending. This was clearly not what they intended, and it only happened because nobody in the writing team bothered to try to predict how fans would react to what had happened. They didn't think like a fan would, for lack of a better phrase, and how could they? It probably didn't even enter their minds that people would make that assumption, until thousands of people started doing so. If anything the backlash shows how perilous it is to write something without thinking of the audience's response.)
I never understood that scene, where we see a N7 breath. Because Shepard has lost his armor before he went to the Citadel... And with EC, his LI put his name on the memorial stone so... WHY this scene ? O.O
If you want to show him alive, show it properly... Damn. If he's dead, don't make us hope for nothin' !!! >.< It makes me crazy !
People are seeing meaning (and selective meaning, to boot) in things that are mistakes or oversights.
And you're refusing to see meaning because you don't want to.
The people that disprove IT as ''programming errors'' are just like the atheists claiming their belief is more real than the belief of the religious people.
The truth is you'll never know if the IT was real or not.
I choose to believe it was.
Hammer is retreating
Considering there are husks and a Marauder at the beam, why doesn't he come back?
Knowing Shepard went to the Citadel why don't they send reaper ground troops to stop him?
Considering there are husks and a Marauder at the beam, why doesn't he come back?
Knowing Shepard went to the Citadel why don't they send reaper ground troops to stop him?
Considering there are husks and a Marauder at the beam, why doesn't he come back?
Knowing Shepard went to the Citadel why don't they send reaper ground troops to stop him?
- By the time Harby would come back, Shepard would already be on the Citadel.
- Why would he need to send ground troops when TIM is already on board?
Why would it shoot husks and marauders?
How would it know?
Don't tell me you think they can somehow communicate with it, cause in that case, Shepard should've been killed on earth.
Husk: 'Yep, Harby, he's here, with that old dude and they only have pistols'
Reaper: 'Alright, locking in on your signal, prepare for an air stri... oh wait I don't care if you die'
Isn't it implied The Intelligence controls all reapers?
Doesn't Synthesis say that the Husks and Banshees gain sentience, which implies they did not have it before, which implies they were being controlled?
Don't the Collectors get mind controlled by Harbinger?
Why would he need to send ground troops when TIM is already on board?
And how did that go?
You're telling me the Reapers would risk their existence by leaving TIM as the only guardian of the ONLY thing that can kill them?
Why didn't they just have a small force of Reaper thralls on the Citadel? It seems incredibly dumb to leave it empty.
Personally I'd like to see the new game/games set parallel to Shepard's story, and eventually leading - over the course of two or three years - to the same point on Earth, then perhaps giving us a chance to influence/change/scrap the original ending. I don't care if at that point they'd use IT or some last minute daring rescue/reinforcement/suicide/anything - it just couldn't be any worse than ME3 endings, no? 
Isn't it implied The Intelligence controls all reapers?
My creators gave them form, I gave them function. They, in turn, give me purpose. The Reapers are a synthetic representation of my creators
Doesn't Synthesis say that the Husks and Banshees gain sentience, which implies they did not have it before, which implies they were being controlled?
Don't the Collectors get mind controlled by Harbinger?
My creators gave them form, I gave them function. They, in turn, give me purpose.
Red = The reapers are molded after the Leviathan. They were not CREATED by them.
Green = The Catalyst created them and set them to do what they do.
Blue = Without the Reapers, the Catalyst couldn't do his job.
The Catalyst either programmed the Reapers to the slightest detail or he directly controls them.
The first reaper was a harvested Leviathan, no? ( The Reapers have such strong indoctrination powers because they are made from creatures that were already apt at mind control ). In that sense, is Harbinger not a Leviathan Husk, just as say a Marauder is a Turian husk?
Why would Harbinger be conscient, yet a Marauder not? They're both harvested/reaperified versions of the races that were used to create them.
If you get the breathe scene, Shep's LI doesn't put up his name plate on the memorial wall.
But...... She did. o.O I had breathe scene (7k total war assets). Then Tali put the plate on the memorial wall..... (Or maybe she just kept it on her hands.... u.u I dun remember clearly...)
Whatever, Shepard's still alive in my heart ! è.é And after this, they find him, heal him with Miranda's magic hands, and go to Citadel do the party ! \o/
Why would Harbinger be conscient, yet a Marauder not? They're both harvested/reaperified versions of the races that were used to create them.
Seeing all those threads makes me think one simple thing - Mass Effect Universe is screwed.
No it doesn't !! Bioware is an excellent studio. They can do mistakes, but they have passion ! I'm sure they'll do something great even awesome. ^^
There is little use arguing about IT, if Bioware was going to use it they would have when they redid the horrid endings and redid them to just make them bad. Seriously you can make all the arguments you want for it, the ones in control aren't listening.
There is little use arguing about IT, if Bioware was going to use it they would have when they redid the horrid endings and redid them to just make them bad. Seriously you can make all the arguments you want for it, the ones in control aren't listening.
They don't have to. Anything BIoware did after the game ended was no longer relevant to the IT.
Still going with this IT pipe dream?
Wow. I must've went through some time-space continuum back to spring 2012.
Well could you go to 2016/2017 and tell us how is this new Mass Effect please ? 
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