25 réponses à ce sujet

[CronoDragoon]

I *think* by now it's clear that there's no tactical view separate from tactical camera mode, based on this quote by Allan:

"As a note, the tactical camera didn't actually exist in DA2 either. So in the sense of the franchise, the tactical camera for the PC is a return to a camera mode that allows you to detach the camera from a character and move the camera around.

I think you're thinking that it's some sort of additional camera mode on top of something else, but just to be clear it is not."

(if I'm mistaken Allan please correct me)

So for those PC players wishing to simulate as closely as possible the Origins-type iso view, it seems like Engage mode is the only way to do that (again, please correct if wrong).

If Engage mode is the only way to do that, I have some questions about it:

1. Is tactical cam with KB&M paused by default?
2. If so, do we hold down a key to start Engage mode and pass time, then release the key to return to pause?

Just trying to get some clarification since we haven't seen the KB&M gameplay in action yet.

[LexXxich]

I'd like pausing and changing camera mode to be separated toggles.

[Maria Caliban]

Having read your 'quote' I think I'm lacking context because I'm unsure of what is being said.

[CronoDragoon]

Having read your 'quote' I think I'm lacking context because I'm unsure of what is being said.

I'll do my best to frame the discussion since it's scattered across this thread:

 

Poster A: "Last I heard, and to my understanding, there isn't an actual isometric camera mode no.  In combat you can pause and zoom out, and then hold down a button to move the action forward, and that's "tactical cam"/ "engage mode". "

 

Poster B:

"Well, from the few official responses on here and after examining everything the videos show of the tac cam, the bottom line looks to be this:  from what they are showing, the PC version may be getting it, but it doesn't look like there's any reason to actually use it.

 

It does in fact look like something for console versions who did not have the ability to scroll (zoom) out, around, or up while paused or un-paused.  Hence why they are describing it as "new" feature."

 

Allan:

"As a note, the tactical camera didn't actually exist in DA2 either.  So in the sense of the franchise, the tactical camera for the PC is a return to a camera mode that allows you to detach the camera from a character and move the camera around.

 

Based on your posts, I think you're thinking that it's some sort of additional camera mode on top of something else, but just to be clear it is not."

 

I'm taking this to mean there is third-person mode, and tactical camera mode, and that's it.

[In Exile]

I think what Allan is saying is that in DA2, you couldn't actually zoom out a great deal and the camera was character locked. In DA:O, the camera wasn't character locked on the highest scroll up (it was more akin to BG1-BG2, etc.). This new tactical mode brings back this type of view, and unlocks the camera from whatever character you have selected. 

[In Exile]

I'll do my best to frame the discussion since it's scattered across this thread:

 

Poster A: "Last I heard, and to my understanding, there isn't an actual isometric camera mode no.  In combat you can pause and zoom out, and then hold down a button to move the action forward, and that's "tactical cam"/ "engage mode". "

 

Poster B:

"Well, from the few official responses on here and after examining everything the videos show of the tac cam, the bottom line looks to be this:  from what they are showing, the PC version may be getting it, but it doesn't look like there's any reason to actually use it.

 

It does in fact look like something for console versions who did not have the ability to scroll (zoom) out, around, or up while paused or un-paused.  Hence why they are describing it as "new" feature."

 

Allan:

"As a note, the tactical camera didn't actually exist in DA2 either.  So in the sense of the franchise, the tactical camera for the PC is a return to a camera mode that allows you to detach the camera from a character and move the camera around.

 

Based on your posts, I think you're thinking that it's some sort of additional camera mode on top of something else, but just to be clear it is not."

 

I'm taking this to mean there is third-person mode, and tactical camera mode, and that's it.

 

Your post is still hard to follow. 

 

Let's focus on the features.

 

In DA:O you had different levels of scrolling in what was essentially the same "type" of control, i.e., third person OTS, expect that you could zoom out a great deal. At after the second highest possible level of zoom, you crossed some sort of threshold and it became the BG-like isometric camera. 

 

There were two "modes" in DA:O - the OTS mode and the so-called tactical or isometric mode, with the option to zoom a lot in the OTS mode. 

 

DA2 didn't have this detached camera isometric/tactical view, but you could zoom out a lot in from OTS (comparable to about 2/3rds of DA:O, IMO). 

 

It sounds to me like what Allan is saying is that the camera works like DA:O, but it gets confusing because we've never seen this feature. 

[CronoDragoon]

Right. The main question is whether Engage mode is the only way to advance time in the tactical camera mode, which is the mode in which you can detach the camera.

[In Exile]

Right. The main question is whether Engage mode is the only way to advance time in the tactical camera mode, which is the mode in which you can detach the camera.

 

Wouldn't it just make sense to scroll down one level and then scroll up to pause again? That is, if the pause was linked to the camera mode, you could basically pause and un-pause with one flick of the scroll wheel. That seems like a better feature, no? 

[LexXxich]

Two questions, actually:
1. Is changing to "Tactical Camera" the only way to engage active pause?
2. Is "Engage" mode (hold or toggle) the only way to unpause the game in "Tactical Camera"?

[spacediscosaurus]

Wouldn't it just make sense to scroll down one level and then scroll up to pause again? That is, if the pause was linked to the camera mode, you could basically pause and un-pause with one flick of the scroll wheel. That seems like a better feature, no? 

 

I disagree. I want to be able have the whole battle in real-time while in the isometric view. I currently have no plans to ever really do any combat in the over-the-shoulder view unless I absolutely need to be in direct control of the party member. Otherwise, I want to issue orders from isometric view and let it play out with no direct control over movement, just like in Origins.

 

From the footage we've seen, this is possible, but as far as we know, at least on consoles, to unpause time in tactical cam, you need to hold down a button. We have no idea if this will be changed (I hope so, that would be annoying for console users) or if the PC version will work the same way.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I disagree. I want to be able have the whole battle in real-time while in the isometric view. I currently have no plans to ever really do any combat in the over-the-shoulder view unless I absolutely need to be in direct control of the party member. Otherwise, I want to issue orders from isometric view and let it play out with no direct control over movement, just like in Origins.

We've been told that it's possible to play "the entire game" using the tactical camera, so that means it also works during exploration.

As such, it's possible that we'll be able to take direct control of a character without moving to the over-the-shoulder camera. Either that, or they're saying that we can move-to-point when exploring.

[CronoDragoon]

Wouldn't it just make sense to scroll down one level and then scroll up to pause again? That is, if the pause was linked to the camera mode, you could basically pause and un-pause with one flick of the scroll wheel. That seems like a better feature, no? 

 

But you can't detach the camera/control from a party member in Third Person mode, even zoomed out to look like a quasi-iso mode. That's only available in tactical cam mode, which is paused by default and needs Engage mode to advance time. So you're still not getting the BG/Origins type of iso gameplay, right?

[Sylvius the Mad]

That's only available in tactical cam mode, which is paused by default and needs Engage mode to advance time. So you're still not getting the BG/Origins type of iso gameplay, right?

We don't know that the tactical camera needs Engage mode to advance time, and we don't know that the default pause is hard-coded. It could be we get to choose what the pause behaviour is.

We were told at some point that we can pause unpause irrespective of the camera mode. So we don't really know anything about this basic mechanic.

BioWare has been spending far too much time showing us things that don't matter or are spoilers, and completely ignoring any useful description of core mechanical features.

[Brogan]

Just trying to get some clarification since we haven't seen the KB&M gameplay in action yet.

Honestly Crono I don't think we're going to get any more clarification until we have video of the pc UI in action.

This thread is confusing because console versions of DAO and DA2 were extremely different in camera view and UI usage compared to pc, and posters are not noting which platform their comments are for. An unfortunate side effect of cross platform forums.

Anyway, PC versions did not have any 'engage mode', advance time button, and there were no restrictions on when you could pause the game. It was all very simple and intuitive. Yes, the "detached camera" feature was not in DA2 - that is welcomed. But in general, there should be no need to add any of the above features to the pc versions of the game ...

Unless of course they changed something fundamental about the pc interface.

As far as I know, they have yet to comment.

[Enigmatick]

What is going on here? Is this the same misconception where people think they won't be able to truly unpause in tac cam mode?

[Enigmatick]

We don't know that the tactical camera needs Engage mode to advance time, and we don't know that the default pause is hard-coded. It could be we get to choose what the pause behaviour is.

We were told at some point that we can pause unpause irrespective of the camera mode. So we don't really know anything about this basic mechanic.

BioWare has been spending far too much time showing us things that don't matter or are spoilers, and completely ignoring any useful description of core mechanical features.

Also this, there's a lot of damn confusion about what are supposed to be simple mechanics because they've never bothered to show or explain them in a clear or  meaningful matter.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Unless of course they changed something fundamental about the pc interface.

Because of the new engine, they built everything from scratch.  So they may well have decided that the old design wasn't something they needed to mimic.

 

They would have been wrong about that, but that could be what they decided.

[Allan Schumacher]

Also this, there's a lot of damn confusion about what are supposed to be simple mechanics because they've never bothered to show or explain them in a clear or  meaningful matter.

 

Exactly.  I probably said more than I should before I should have.  So at this point, unfortunately, I'm inclined to defer until the system is detailed more officially rather than trying to describe things with limited frame of reference.

[Brogan]

Exactly.  I probably said more than I should before I should have.  So at this point, unfortunately, I'm inclined to defer until the system is detailed more officially rather than trying to describe things with limited frame of reference.

Allan, you do realize what a big deal this is for players who do not wish to play with controllers, correct? I understand numerous things have yet to be shown, the pc UI among them, but it's still odd that something so basic for such a big title is still an unknown.

The confusion between the platform ui's does not help when both pc and console players are trying to find answers, but we only have the console UI thus far to analyze.

[Vilegrim]

well here's hoping I never have to be in 3rd person.  Really do not want to watch the combat animations, from what I have seen so far the further away from them the better.

[archav3n]

well here's hoping I never have to be in 3rd person.  Really do not want to watch the combat animations, from what I have seen so far the further away from them the better.

 

Exactly. I may be one of the minority, a party based combat needs isometric top-down (call it tactical if you so like). Watched few trailers, as soon as game unpaused and the camera switches back to third person. That's a letdown for me on the combat perspective. Third person view is really great for explorations and conversations.

[Allan Schumacher]

Allan, you do realize what a big deal this is for players who do not wish to play with controllers, correct? I understand numerous things have yet to be shown, the pc UI among them, but it's still odd that something so basic for such a big title is still an unknown.

The confusion between the platform ui's does not help when both pc and console players are trying to find answers, but we only have the console UI thus far to analyze.

 

I understand it's important for you.  The game is being released on November 18th.  The only thing I'm comfortable saying is that if you still have concerns about the Keyboard and Mouse UI as that date approaches, use it to inform your purchase.

 

Sorry, but I'm not willing to speak more about this until it's been explored more through official means.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Until I hear otherwise, I am going to continue to expect a control scheme identical to DAO.

As the release date approaches, deviations from that will be met with ever increasing levels of horror and feelings of betrayal.

[pdusen]

Until I hear otherwise, I am going to continue to expect a control scheme identical to DAO.

As the release date approaches, deviations from that will be met with ever increasing levels of horror and feelings of betrayal.

 

Did they actually say at any point that the Keyboard & Mouse control scheme is identical to DAO? If not, that's an unreasonable expectation that you've built up in your head, and any horror or betrayal you feel as a result of deviations from that expectation are entirely your own fault.

 

I understand wanting to know more before finalizing a purchase, but if you're really that anxious about it, you really should just wait until after the game is released and find out how it turned out.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Did they actually say at any point that the Keyboard & Mouse control scheme is identical to DAO?

No, but that is the standard by which I will judge it.