249 réponses à ce sujet

[Giantdeathrobot]

Her first sentence sums up why I feel Bioware's protagonists have become boring - no matter what, I'm a dauntless and dashing hero. Showing foibles and vulnerability is exactly what makes hero's interesting. Seems we're in for another power trip role play.

 

Mass Effect 3 dedicated some time to having Shepard be in near PTSD state after what happened to him/her. Same for Hawke after tragic events happened. And anyway, DAII was about as far from a power trip story as you could possibly find in an RPG. So I'm really disagreeing there.

[CronoDragoon]

Indeed. But this is what we get with the voiced protagonist. And with the all-cinematic approach. We also then get a group of creative and talented people working together, who all thinks they are doing a movie.

This is the flaw. This is the weakness. This is what I fear one day will drive me away from Bioware.

 

Plays use voiced dialogue, too, you know. It doesn't mean they think they are making a movie, it means they realize they are working in a visual medium and that voice is a natural part of that, even for the main character. Especially since everyone else in the game is voiced.

 

Is there a conflict of interest between encouraging the player to role-play and using a voice? Sure. Are there plenty of people willing to make that trade in order to have a voice character in a game where everyone else is voiced? You bet.

[KC_Prototype]

I love Alix Wilton Regan and she will definitely be the voice of my first female Inquisitor. And I think I know my response to Cassandra asking for my help

[Rawgrim]

Plays use voiced dialogue, too, you know. It doesn't mean they think they are making a movie, it means they realize they are working in a visual medium and that voice is a natural part of that, even for the main character. Especially since everyone else in the game is voiced.

 

Is there a conflict of interest between encouraging the player to role-play and using a voice? Sure. Are there plenty of people willing to make that trade in order to have a voice character in a game where everyone else is voiced? You bet.

 

I think most of the issues pops up when the game takes control of the PC for long periods of time (in cutscenes). Having the character say a bunch of stuff the player would never have picked, had there been options presented.

[Wulfram]

I think most of the issues pops up when the game takes control of the PC for long periods of time (in cutscenes). Having the character say a bunch of stuff the player would never have picked, had there been options presented.

 

The issue of the tone used is one that's an issue even if you let the player pick every word.  It's somewhat inescapable, because obviously the voice actor has to choose how to say something, and even trying to be "neutral" is still saying something about the character.

Though it's not necessary that the protagonist should always be a confident, strong bad-ass, that's something that Bioware have chosen.

[CronoDragoon]

Though it's not necessary that the protagonist should always be a confident, strong bad-ass, that's something that Bioware have chosen.

 

Not true as of their last 2 games.

[Rawgrim]

Hawke didn't strike me as overly confident or badass, though. He\she felt more down to earth.

[Wulfram]

Hawke didn't strike me as overly confident or badass, though. He\she felt more down to earth.

 

I thought they were extremely confident and badass.  Outside of the one scene in Act 2, anyway.

[bEVEsthda]

Plays use voiced dialogue, too, you know. It doesn't mean they think they are making a movie, it means they realize they are working in a visual medium and that voice is a natural part of that, even for the main character. Especially since everyone else in the game is voiced.

 

That's no argument. It's not having a clue. If I can accept that you like voiced protagonist, why can't you accept that you simply haven't a clue what you're talking about? (From my perspective). This discussion is old and we've had it a lot on these forums. I don't think I've ever seen an argument from your side that is relevant for my side's position. They may seem convincing and reasonable to you, but frankly, they only are, if you want to see a movie (or "play"). Please don't try to convince me that a voiced protagonist is "natural part" or the obvious way. It's not. It's just one of two rather different genres of cRPGs.

 

 

Is there a conflict of interest between encouraging the player to role-play and using a voice? Sure. Are there plenty of people willing to make that trade in order to have a voice character in a game where everyone else is voiced? You bet.

 

I certainly hope so, for Bioware's sake.

But if your point is that we have to have voiced protagonists to achieve good sales? Then I think the evidence points in the opposite direction. RPGs with silent protagonist sell very well.

[Rawgrim]

I thought they were extremely confident and badass.  Outside of the one scene in Act 2, anyway.

 

Maybe I remember it wrong, then. Been awhile since I played the game.

[Wulfram]

Maybe I remember it wrong, then. Been awhile since I played the game.

 

I suppose some of the lamer jokes wouldn't fit the stereotype.  Snarky Hawke can come off as endearingly awkward, in a way.

[Maria Caliban]

Her first sentence sums up why I feel Bioware's protagonists have become boring - no matter what, I'm a dauntless and dashing hero. Showing foibles and vulnerability is exactly what makes hero's interesting. Seems we're in for another power trip role play.

BioWare is in an odd place with their protagonists. They're often placed in this generic action hero mode because they're not predefined but they still want them to have a certain level of charisma and personality.

[SofaJockey]

There is no room for going off on your own like a wild card when the greater goal is the success of the Inquisition.  There is no "I" in team!

The four-person party is made up of leaders in their own right.
Each has their own opinion within the team.

There may be no 'I' in 'team'.
But there are four 'i's in the 'Inquisition'.

[CronoDragoon]

That's no argument. It's not having a clue. If I can accept that you like voiced protagonist, why can't you accept that you simply haven't a clue what you're talking about? (From my perspective). This discussion is old and we've had it a lot on these forums. I don't think I've ever seen an argument from your side that is relevant for my side's position. They may seem convincing and reasonable to you, but frankly, they only are, if you want to see a movie (or "play"). Please don't try to convince me that a voiced protagonist is "natural part" or the obvious way. It's not. It's just one of two rather different genres of cRPGs.

 

Not having a clue about what? 

 

And I did present an argument relevant to your side's position. Here's the argument, restated: an advantage of a silent protagonist is the ability to more properly keep your character's actions (which includes dialogue) in line with your vision for the character. Voiced protagonists can strain this connection, since they risk your character taking a tone (or even a type of voice in general) that you did not envision. It's therefore an issue of immersion. But here's the flipside: immersion can be broken in many ways. For some fans, a way to break immersion is to have one character be completely silent in dialogue/cutscenes while other characters talk. Or to have a character stand completely still and do nothing while talking. Both are consequences of a silent protagonist, and they are consequences specific to visual mediums wherein one character is a "blank slate" while others are not. South Park: The Stick of Truth lampoons its silent protagonist constantly regarding this: https://www.youtube....&has_verified=1

 

In summary: voice vs. silent is about different types of immersion, and defining immersion in such a way that it only supports the immersive qualities of a silent protagonist is not debating in good faith.

 

I certainly hope so, for Bioware's sake.

But if your point is that we have to have voiced protagonists to achieve good sales? Then I think the evidence points in the opposite direction. RPGs with silent protagonist sell very well.

 

No, that was not the point. My avatar is from my favorite game of all time, Chrono Cross, which has a silent protagonist, so I'm not actively out to marginalize fans of silent protagonists. If it were, I'd say something like "no one wants silent protagonists, the vast majority wants voice" and such. The point is that BioWare games sell fine even with voiced protagonists, so your "concern" for BioWare's sake, while touching, is misplaced.

[Giantdeathrobot]

That's no argument. It's not having a clue. If I can accept that you like voiced protagonist, why can't you accept that you simply haven't a clue what you're talking about? (From my perspective). This discussion is old and we've had it a lot on these forums. I don't think I've ever seen an argument from your side that is relevant for my side's position. They may seem convincing and reasonable to you, but frankly, they only are, if you want to see a movie (or "play"). Please don't try to convince me that a voiced protagonist is "natural part" or the obvious way. It's not. It's just one of two rather different genres of cRPGs.

 

 

 

I certainly hope so, for Bioware's sake.

But if your point is that we have to have voiced protagonists to achieve good sales? Then I think the evidence points in the opposite direction. RPGs with silent protagonist sell very well.

 

Apart from Bethesda games, which barely has the protagonist speak at all at any rate, I'm not certain which RPGs with silent protagonists outsell the likes of Mass Effect or Dragon Age. Divinity Original Sin seems to sell well enough, but I would need to see hard numbers to be convinced they beat Bioware games, and given it's PC-only I doubt it.

 

And anyway, what's with this ''your side'' and ''my side'' thing? Is this a football stadium or what? People can have disagreements without drawing a line in the sand. Saying that other people never have a clue is also not exactly conductive to good discussion either.

 

For the record, I do disagree that voiced protagonist is natural in a visual medium. I didn't mind it in Origins. But if Bioware can work out the flaws they had in their voiced PCs so far (mostly offering more choices in terms of tone and action/reactions, which they seem to be aiming for), I don't think voiced protagonist in an heresy either. Ultimately, it's not what you do, it's how you do it. I would vastly prefer a well done voiced PC than a PC that's basically ''just there'' and barely says anything, like in Skyrim.

[bEVEsthda]

Not having a clue about what? 

 

And I did present an argument relevant to your side's position. Here's the argument, restated: an advantage of a silent protagonist is the ability to more properly keep your character's actions (which includes dialogue) in line with your vision for the character. Voiced protagonists can strain this connection, since they risk your character taking a tone (or even a type of voice in general) that you did not envision. It's therefore an issue of immersion. But here's the flipside: immersion can be broken in many ways. For some fans, a way to break immersion is to have one character be completely silent in dialogue/cutscenes while other characters talk. Or to have a character stand completely still and do nothing while talking. Both are consequences of a silent protagonist, and they are consequences specific to visual mediums wherein one character is a "blank slate" while others are not. South Park: The Stick of Truth lampoons its silent protagonist constantly regarding this: https://www.youtube....&has_verified=1

 

In summary: voice vs. silent is about different types of immersion, and defining immersion in such a way that it only supports the immersive qualities of a silent protagonist is not debating in good faith.

 

As I said, this discussion is quite old. And I never even mentioned immersion. Yes, there are different kinds of immersions, but I'm not going there and don't need to. This is about why I even play a game like this. The main element in that, is to shape and evolve my character and experience what happens. If an RPG doesn't let me do that, I have better things to do in my life than play through that. A voiced protagonist, doesn't threaten my immersion, it threatens to break my gameplay.

 

Now, bear with me, one can wring around things a lot by mind alone. I am going to try to do this with DA:I. We'll see how it goes and how much DA:I will let me. But when I see a video like this, about the voice acting, my hope goes on a down tour in the roller coaster.

[bEVEsthda]

Apart from Bethesda games, which barely has the protagonist speak at all at any rate, I'm not certain which RPGs with silent protagonists outsell the likes of Mass Effect or Dragon Age. Divinity Original Sin seems to sell well enough, but I would need to see hard numbers to be convinced they beat Bioware games, and given it's PC-only I doubt it.

 

And anyway, what's with this ''your side'' and ''my side'' thing? Is this a football stadium or what? People can have disagreements without drawing a line in the sand. Saying that other people never have a clue is also not exactly conductive to good discussion either.

 

For the record, I do disagree that voiced protagonist is natural in a visual medium. I didn't mind it in Origins. But if Bioware can work out the flaws they had in their voiced PCs so far (mostly offering more choices in terms of tone and action/reactions, which they seem to be aiming for), I don't think voiced protagonist in an heresy either. Ultimately, it's not what you do, it's how you do it. I would vastly prefer a well done voiced PC than a PC that's basically ''just there'' and barely says anything, like in Skyrim.

 

I never said "outsell". But they do, don't they? You maybe forgot that DA:O was silent protagonist?

[Riverway_Inca]

What they should have done (and really, this is my main gripe with DAI) is abolish the dialogue wheel and bring back the full text-dialogue choices from DAO and have all those lines be voiced. That way, we'd know exactly what the PC is going to say and the lines would be so specific in context that the VAs would speak the dialogue in the 'right' tone.

 

Just imagine having two different voices per gender speaking the mostly (if not all) very well-written text choices by the PC in DAO...heaven!

[Sylvius the Mad]

Enjoy!

That didn't make me happy at all.

She starts out well, recognising that she's acting on behalf of the player, but then decides that all players want the same thing for all possible PCs, and decides to speak every line in a strong and commanding way?

What if my Inquisitor isn't strong and commanding and confident? What if my Inquisitor feels completely out of her depth?

Once again, voicing the protagonist appears to have been a terrible idea.

[Giantdeathrobot]

I never said "outsell". But they do, don't they? You maybe forgot that DA:O was silent protagonist?

 

Origins was (apparently) Bioware's best selling game, yes. You'd need to jump through a lot of hoops to convince me it was solely, or even mainly, because it had a silent protagonist, however. Or that the entire thing about protagonists being voiced or not has any significant impact on sales, rather the the game being good and well made overall.

 

I mean, Skyrim had a silent protagonist. But it didn't sell like hotcakes because it had it, that's for certain.

[dutch_gamer]

What they should have done (and really, this is my main gripe with DAI) is abolish the dialogue wheel and bring back the full text-dialogue choices from DAO and have all those lines be voiced. That way, we'd know exactly what the PC is going to say and the lines would be so specific in context that the VAs would speak the dialogue in the 'right' tone.
 
Just imagine having two different voices per gender speaking the mostly (if not all) very well-written text choices by the PC in DAO...heaven!

I wouldn't call it heaven. It is like watching a movie or series with closed captioning and the captioning being completely out of sync. First reading what someone is going to say and hearing the actual text after reading it can get extremely annoying. And I believe this is one of the reasons why Bioware doesn't do this.

[Riverway_Inca]

I get what you mean about closed captioning, but to me that's preferable to having a silent protagonist - if the text is well-written (and I feel it was in DAO), I would like to hear the dialogue voiced. In fact, I found myself doing this constantly whilst playing DAO; oftentimes, if a line was particularly well-written, I'd find myself voicing the text out loud, sort of 'in character' and really role-playing the hell out of it, before selecting that dialogue choice. Surely I can't have been the only one who did this?  Now, if all that text was voiced, I needn't have done that. Of course, the preference for voicing depends on the dialogue being well-written (and I felt some of the lines in DAO were just brilliantly witty), and I figure that with two different voices per gender, I'd be able to pick one that I'd be happy with to speak all that dialogue.

 

Fully voiced text-dialogue choices certainly trumps the imprecise dialogue wheel that's lacking in nuance, IMO anyway.

[themageguy]

Oh she's gorgeous.
Great voice too. I envision her as a human or maybe a qunari.
the elf I want that welsh accent.

We've never heard a female qunari before so i cant say whether i think the voice should be deeper or not. From the demos i think the voice was fine.

[bEVEsthda]

Origins was (apparently) Bioware's best selling game, yes. You'd need to jump through a lot of hoops to convince me it was solely, or even mainly, because it had a silent protagonist, however. Or that the entire thing about protagonists being voiced or not has any significant impact on sales, rather the the game being good and well made overall.

 

I mean, Skyrim had a silent protagonist. But it didn't sell like hotcakes because it had it, that's for certain.

 

I never tried to convince you of anything, except that games don't need a voiced protagonist in order to sell.

Other assertions you make are just based on your beliefs. Nothing else. But that's fair enough. There's nothing there for me to argue against.

[Jawzzus]

What if my Inquisitor isn't strong and commanding and confident? What if my Inquisitor feels completely out of her depth?

 

 

Then don't use Alix?