249 réponses à ce sujet

[Maeshone]

You would think there'd be at least one prominent role being filled by a trans actor though. The only example I can think of is Laverne Cox in Orange is the New Black, and that's not even voice acting.

Well, yeah. And I really hope that Bioware have hired a trans actor, as representation is very important. I just don't think that any trans characters should be held specifically in reserve for trans actors. I'd rather that any trans actors hired be hired for a role that Bioware felt they portrayed the best, same for any cis actors that Bioware hire.

[Who Knows]

So, are you saying that your person subjective enjoyment (what you regard as the "best" voice actor) from voice acting is more important than trans representation?

[Maeshone]

So, are you saying that your person subjective enjoyment (what you regard as the "best" voice actor) from voice acting is more important than trans representation?

No. I've said several times that representation is incredibly important. I just feel that if Bioware hires a trans voice actor, that they don't do so specifically because they have a trans character in their game. Have the trans actor voice act the person that Bioware feels they suit the best, not the trans character just because he/she is trans.

[Samahl]

Have the trans actor voice act the person that Bioware feels they suit the best, not the trans character just because he/she is trans.

 

I do think trans actors should get to play cis characters as well, if only because those are the majority of roles available, and allowing them to voice a character of the gender they identify as must be incredibly validating. I'd like to see more trans actors hired period, along with more trans representation in the game/show/movie proper.

 

Once we can assure the job security of trans people, I'll feel more comfortable opening up trans roles to cis actors.

[efd731]

This has been informative and civil......what hast thou done with mine BSN?? And I can see where almost everyone is coming from(in regards to responses to my question) but I still haven't changed my opinion much. Having a trans actor for a trans characters doesnt seem that important. Having a trans writer or consultant on the other hand seems like it should take the priority. Just my ¢2

[Who Knows]

No. I've said several times that representation is incredibly important. I just feel that if Bioware hires a trans voice actor, that they don't do so specifically because they have a trans character in their game. Have the trans actor voice act the person that Bioware feels they suit the best, not the trans character just because he/she is trans.

No one is suggesting that trans actors should have to voice trans characters. What we have said is that trans characters should be voiced by trans people where possible.

 

I really don't understand how you can say that representation is "incredibly important" (and not less important than your enjoyment) yet also say that they should hire the best voice actor regardless of whether they are trans or not.

Let's say there are two voice actors they're really considering for a trans character. One actor is trans and does a great job. The other actor is cis and does what you would perceive as a better job than the trans actor.

 

Despite believing that representation is "incredibly important," according to what you've been saying, you would not hire the trans actor because there happens to be a cis actor that you think would do better, despite the fact that they would both do great jobs.

This only makes sense if you believe that your subjective perception of what the best voice acting would be is more important than representation for trans people.

[efd731]

Literally anything anyone likes/dislikes is subjective. Including whether the trans actor in your scenario is any good. Or anyone is any good. Or if your assessment skills of voice actors are any good. That's just a silly arguement overall. Allthough I agree with the sentiment of your post.

[JadePrince]

This has been informative and civil......what hast thou done with mine BSN?? And I can see where almost everyone is coming from(in regards to responses to my question) but I still haven't changed my opinion much. Having a trans actor for a trans characters doesnt seem that important. Having a trans writer or consultant on the other hand seems like it should take the priority. Just my ¢2

 

I 100% agree that hiring a trans writer or consultant is something Bioware should do. I volunteer! 

[Maeshone]

I do think trans actors should get to play cis characters as well, if only because those are the majority of roles available, and allowing them to voice a character of the gender they identify as must be incredibly validating. I'd like to see more trans actors hired period, along with more trans representation in the game/show/movie proper.

 

Once we can assure the job security of trans people, I'll feel more comfortable opening up trans roles to cis actors.

Then we are basically in agreement. I only disagree with the "opening of trans roles to cis actors", but that is only because I feel that every role should be availible to every actor to try out for. 

 

No one is suggesting that trans actors should have to voice trans characters. What we have said is that trans characters should be voiced by trans people where possible.

 

I really don't understand how you can say that representation is "incredibly important" (and not less important than your enjoyment) yet also say that they should hire the best voice actor regardless of whether they are trans or not.

Let's say there are two voice actors they're really considering for a trans character. One actor is trans and does a great job. The other actor is cis and does what you would perceive as a better job than the trans actor.

 

Despite believing that representation is "incredibly important," according to what you've been saying, you would not hire the trans actor because there happens to be a cis actor that you think would do better, despite the fact that they would both do great jobs.

This only makes sense if you believe that your subjective perception of what the best voice acting would be is more important than representation for trans people.

It makes sense if you consider my whole argument, and not just the "best actor" part. Purely hypothetically, I would not hire the trans actor if the cis actor did a better job. But that is provided that I already had adequate representation of trans actors elsewhere in that same title. Representation is the more important of the two issues. 

[efd731]

I 100% agree that hiring a trans writer or consultant is something Bioware should do. I volunteer!

Someone should put that hunger games gif up lol. And yeah, I fail to see how a trans actor would mean more than the character actually being written or at least influenced by a trans person. Idk.

[KBomb]

I work with a transgender teenager who is an amazing artist, we were discussing her career goals and what steps we should take in applying to various art schools. When I asked her what her career goal was. She said "I'd love to animate for Disney, but yeah. Never gonna happen." I hate that kind of defeat.

Perhaps, regardless of who voices a character, the more trans people are given opportunity whether it is through a video game, a character in a novel, movie or tv show-- it will open up doors and one day it will just be the norm.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I'm starting to think that cis people just think all trans people are shitty actors or something.

Well that's not broad stroking a group of people at all, is it? 

[JadePrince]

I work with a transgender teenager who is an amazing artist, we were discussing her career goals and what steps we should take in applying to various art schools. When I asked her what her career goal was. She said "I'd love to animate for Disney, but yeah. Never gonna happen." I hate that kind of defeat.

Perhaps, regardless of who voices a character, the more trans people are given opportunity whether it is through a video game, a character in a novel, movie or tv show-- it will open up doors and one day it will just be the norm.

 

That's actually a great reason for casting trans actors whenever we can-- because young trans kids will see that and go "OH! I CAN grow up to be an actor!" This is why Laverne Cox is so important right now! I get little heart flutters when I think about her. 

 

I hope your friend doesn't give up on her dream! It's awful to hear a kid so young be already so jaded. ):

[Who Knows]

You should consider that because trans actors typically get far less work, if at all, they end up getting less experience and practice acting. It is a dangerous cycle. You don't hire a trans actor because they aren't the best, trans actors don't become the best because they aren't hired.

 

As I see it, if you really care about representation, you would hire the great trans actor over the "better" cis actor because representation is important.

Representation is worth a lot more when it's not necessarily easy.

[TurretSyndrome]

If they have the skill, what does it matter what/who they are?

[Samahl]

If they have the skill, what does it matter what/who they are?

 

Perhaps you should read the rest of the thread instead of repeating a question that's been answered multiple times, by multiple people.

[Maeshone]

You should consider that because trans actors typically get far less work, if at all, they end up getting less experience and practice acting. It is a dangerous cycle. You don't hire a trans actor because they aren't the best, trans actors don't become the best because they aren't hired.

 

As I see it, if you really care about representation, you would hire the great trans actor over the "better" cis actor because representation is important.

Representation is worth a lot more when it's not necessarily easy.

I did point out that my viewpoint might be a bit idealistic as well, and would only really work properly in a more equal society. Like I said, representation is the more important of the two factors.

[TurretSyndrome]

Perhaps you should read the rest of the thread instead of repeating a question that's been answered multiple times, by multiple people.

 

It was rhetorical implying that I see no issue beyond skill required.

[KBomb]

That's actually a great reason for casting trans actors whenever we can-- because young trans kids will see that and go "OH! I CAN grow up to be an actor!" This is why Laverne Cox is so important right now! I get little heart flutters when I think about her.

I hope your friend doesn't give up on her dream! It's awful to hear a kid so young be already so jaded. ):

Yep, it's a pretty sad thing to see. I am used to seeing it. I work with teenagers who have neurological disorders, so it is common for those feelings to spring up. This just felt a bit different.

I haven't watched Orange is the new black. How age appropriate is it?

[Samahl]

Yep, it's a pretty sad thing to see. I am used to seeing it. I work with teenagers who have neurological disorders, so it is common for those feelings to spring up. This just felt a bit different.

I haven't watched Orange is the new black. How age appropriate is it?

 

Lots of nudity and sex scenes abound. Some graphic violence as well, particularly in the second season.

[Allan Schumacher]

Alright, the first point is fair enough, but just... horse urine... ew 

 

 

See, the thing I have issues with is the idea that trans people would be better qualified to play those roles. The rest are all valid points, and extremely good ones. I just think an acting role should go to the best actor regardless, because acting is by definition "the art or profession of performing the role of a character in a play, movie, etc. : the art or profession of an actor". Being similar to the role an actor plays is not needed in order to provide a good portrayal, especially not in voice acting, where literally the only thing we get is the voice. appearance, mannerisms and such are all added by other people.

 

The issue is that often we have subtle biases.  I have made references to this study in the past, which is basically that candidates were rated more critically if the name on an application was a woman's (and interestingly, it was the same effect if it was a man or a woman doing the judging - this leads me to think that there is something cultural).  Not that the group is bad human beings, just that there's something there that influences that.

 

 

I'd agree that, for voice work, the idea of having someone with a good voice can probably work.  But I have a sneaking suspicion that trans people likely have a harder time getting non-trans roles.  Granted I don't know this (others seem to have links), but I think it's important to be aware of these sorts of things.

[KBomb]

Lots of nudity and sex scenes abound. Some graphic violence as well, particularly in the second season.

Ah. Better not recommend that, then.

[JadePrince]

Lots of nudity and sex scenes abound. Some graphic violence as well, particularly in the second season.

 

Yeaaah, it's probably not best for younger folks. Luckily even without watching the show, Laverne Cox is getting so much media attention these days that I imagine trans kids are still being made aware of her. 

 

It does bring up a good point tho-- that making media with trans (and LGB) content specifically for young people is super important. Because there are young kids that ID as all those things and if the only media with LGBT themes available is adult-rated, then they're missing out on seeing that representation. 

[Maeshone]

 

The issue is that often we have subtle biases.  I have made references to this study in the past, which is basically that candidates were rated more critically if the name on an application was a woman's (and interestingly, it was the same effect if it was a man or a woman doing the judging - this leads me to think that there is something cultural).  Not that the group is bad human beings, just that there's something there that influences that.

 

 

I'd agree that, for voice work, the idea of having someone with a good voice can probably work.  But I have a sneaking suspicion that trans people likely have a harder time getting non-trans roles.  Granted I don't know this (others seem to have links), but I think it's important to be aware of these sorts of things.

I know that there are issues with the whole "unconscious bias" thing, and I did reflect on the fact that my viewpoint might only be applicable in an equal society, which is something we unfortunately do not have yet. But hopefully Bioware aren't discriminating against trans actors simply because they're trans 

 

Also, it's about 6 am here, and the festival outside my window is finally starting to slow down, so I think I'll bow out of this discussion for now and catch some sleep. Thank you to everyone who engaged me for keeping it civil, it was interesting for me to chat with you about this, and I hope I didn't come off as an ******* to anyone 

[pdusen]

So given that we're talking about voice acting, would the people at Bioware doing the casting really even necessarily know if an actor was trans or not? After all, if they're casting a trans character--or any character, really--wouldn't they just be listening to a series of audition recordings and selecting the best from those?

 

I obviously don't know how their casting works, so I could be wrong and it could totally be a more in-person process than I'm thinking, but I have a hard time imagining that Bioware asks their actors a lot of questions about their sexual identity before making casting decisions.