161 réponses à ce sujet

[Sanunes]

This "complexity" only comes into play for people willing and able to circumvent the need to be online for game to ask Keep website that code. Any PC capable of running DAI can hold up to 2Gb in it's clipboard so size of the code is irrelevant too. Copy code, paste it into .txt file, take it whereever you want and copypaste into the game on that machine. Not sure if you can do that on console, though, might be too restricted for that.

 

The problem is you don't really want to limit the people you are aiming an application for, I find you are better of being "a jerk" instead of making a person "feel stupid" and that can easily become a problem when there are people of a very large range of skill sets using your application.

[LexXxich]

The problem is you don't really want to limit the people you are aiming an application for.

Isn't adding more options going to do just that? Remove limitations? Want fast and easy - use default online procedure, press one button in-game, receive bacon. Not enough - click this "power user" button and do it manually. BW already did this with DAO DLC, they offer a manual download/install option for people who for some reason can't use default in-game option. Moreover, manual download/install was the only option for ME2 and DA2 DLC on PC. DLC might have been optional, but Keep is positioned as optional too.

[AshenEndymion]

Isn't adding more options going to do just that? Remove limitations? Want fast and easy - use default online procedure, press one button in-game, receive bacon. Not enough - click this "power user" button and do it manually. BW already did this with DAO DLC, they offer a manual download/install option for people who for some reason can't use default in-game option. Moreover, manual download/install was the only option for ME2 and DA2 DLC on PC. DLC might have been optional, but Keep is positioned as optional too.

 

But thus far, the only options/ideas that have been presented advocate an offline version of the keep.  And the only people such an option benefits are the PC players(because, again, consoles can't use PC edited or created save files).

 

I'm just curious why someone with a PC that can play DAI is incapable of connecting to the internet for the (likely less than) 20 seconds it takes to access the Keep.  I certainly hope it's something more substantial than "I don't want to do that."

[Fredvdp]

But those codes wouldn't be meaningful to the new engine anyway. Unless by some miracle both engines have the exact same choices available.

If the code is a just a string with plot flags, then it should be easy to program a system that's able to translate the code to the game's variables. It shouldn't matter what engine the game runs in.

 

The Witcher 2 reads save files from the first Witcher game, even though Witcher 2 runs on the Red Engine and Witcher 1 runs on a modified BioWare engine.

[Sanunes]

Isn't adding more options going to do just that? Remove limitations? Want fast and easy - use default online procedure, press one button in-game, receive bacon. Not enough - click this "power user" button and do it manually. BW already did this with DAO DLC, they offer a manual download/install option for people who for some reason can't use default in-game option. Moreover, manual download/install was the only option for ME2 and DA2 DLC on PC. DLC might have been optional, but Keep is positioned as optional too.

 

I know at least one person that got frustrated with the DLC system in Dragon Age: Origins and never bothered to play the game because they got frustrated with that internal application because it wouldn't authenticate the Stone Prisoner.  That could be something they are trying to avoid by keeping The Keep simple and identical across all platforms.

[Verly]

I think the reason for the keep is that I would be a controlled environment.  As others have said, they could quickly patch an issue if a flag didn't work correctly. Bugs *will* pop up. It is part of gaming.  They would know what the issue is and be able to fix it properly.  no matter how many people they have at the moment that can test the Keep they do not have access to the game yet. There may issues that will only be seen once the game goes live. 

 

an offline, downloaded version that is not attached to the game is in no way the same controlled environment. 

[Thandal N'Lyman]

If the code is a just a string with plot flags, then it should be easy to program a system that's able to translate the code to the game's variables. It shouldn't matter what engine the game runs in.

 

The Witcher 2 reads save files from the first Witcher game, even though Witcher 2 runs on the Red Engine and Witcher 2 runs on a modified BioWare engine.

 

The "different game engine" issue is regarding your character's appearance not being able to be passed directly from the previous game(s). 

The discussion centered on how the game generated a "face code" in ME2 that could be imported to ME3, so why couldn't that be done for DA:I...

[O_OotherSide]

Why doesn't the game just have a built in save editor? Is it because it hates America?

[AlanC9]

The "different game engine" issue is regarding your character's appearance not being able to be passed directly from the previous game(s). 
The discussion centered on how the game generated a "face code" in ME2 that could be imported to ME3, so why couldn't that be done for DA:I...

And the answer was that ME2 and ME3 shared an engine, but that isn't true for DAI.

It's highly unlikely that previous games' face slider choices will map 1-to-1 onto DAI's slider options. It's even less likely that the headmorphs themselves could be brought over. Obviously these things could be made to work with enough effort, but the likelihood of Bio making such an effort is zero.

[Some Attitude]

And the answer was that ME2 and ME3 shared an engine, but that isn't true for DAI.

It's highly unlikely that previous games' face slider choices will map 1-to-1 onto DAI's slider options. It's even less likely that the headmorphs themselves could be brought over. Obviously these things could be made to work with enough effort, but the likelihood of Bio making such an effort is zero.

 

Yeah, that was kinda' the entire point that was being made...

[Psearo]

The Witcher 2 reads save files from the first Witcher game, even though Witcher 2 runs on the Red Engine and Witcher 2 runs on a modified BioWare engine.

 

Other way round.

The Witcher ran on heavily modified Aurora Engine (Neverwinter Nights), using 3DS Max to make the environments and importing them into Aurora.

 

The engines used for DA:O/A (Eclipse) and DA2 (Lycium) also stemmed from Aurora, with Odyssey (KoTOR games, NWN2) coming between Aurora and Eclipse.

I remember behind the scenes footage before DA:O released showing devs using Aurora toolset to design areas, and easily importing them into Eclipse. IIRC it was the ruined temple in the village of Haven.

As for the savegame import between the two games and engines, The Witcher was pc only, so CD Project Red didn't have this issue for consoles.

 

 

The Keep being cloud based doesn't bother me in the slightest, and I'm a PC gamer.

If I didn't pay for my internet, I'd ask a friend if I could leech some of their time & bandwidth to do it.

[AlanC9]

Yeah, that was kinda' the entire point that was being made...

Yeah, I know. I think there was only one guy in the thread who was ever confused about that.

[AshenEndymion]

 
We may not be able to.
 
The only reason I have internet now is because I haven it on my smartphone. If I didn't, I'd still be lugging my computer somewhere else to start a game once and activate it before heading home.
 
I could easily be in a situation where I would be unable to get online. I see little reason that should not be accommodated.

 

Then this makes you the same as a console player who can't access the internet.  Why should the PC player without an internet connection be accommodated but not the console player?  I mean, I can think of one reason why not to have an offline version of the keep:  Treating players equally.  If the console player can't have an offline version of the keep(and there is absolutely no way that's possible unless Microsoft and Sony allow Bioware access to proprietary info), why should the PC player get an offline version of the keep?

 

Every answer I can come up with on my own just amounts to "because the PC player is more special."  And that's just not reason enough for me.

[AshenEndymion]

It sounds like you're saying, "because I cannot, YOU cannot." Is that correct?


A solution is to make an application for the 360 and PS3 as well. However, it's very likely much simpler to make an offline version for the PC than for these.

And you know what? if that's too "special" for you, I don't have any problem with us simply being able to download the files beforehand. And you could do that for a 360 or PS3.

 

I'm actually saying "there's no reason for one platform to be treated differently from another."

 

But, it's your last line that makes this whole discussion pointless.  You want to download the file, but you don't want to download the file when you play the game.  Meaning, you have access to the internet, you just don't want to use it when you play the game.  At that point, it's not a matter of "I can't do it."  It's a matter of "I don't want to do it"(which is the reasoning I figured I'd get to begin with but was hoping to not get it).

[Cyonan]

It sounds like you're saying, "because I cannot, YOU cannot." Is that correct?


A solution is to make an application for the 360 and PS3 as well. However, it's very likely much simpler to make an offline version for the PC than for these.

And you know what? if that's too "special" for you, I don't have any problem with us simply being able to download the files beforehand. And you could do that for a 360 or PS3.

 

No solution is even needed.

 

If they're making an offline version(which I think they should) then the PC one should get made regardless of the consoles. It's stupid to hold something like that back because the other platform can't handle it as easy. No it's not fair, but it's one of the perks of being a PC gamer.

 

That said, if they can make an offline version for consoles they definitely should as well, but I see no reason to keep it away from PC gamers just because they couldn't get it working in time for consoles.

[AshenEndymion]

Further, you're equating "downloading a file" and "downloading a file when you play the game." The two are not equatable. The first requires internet access, anywhere. The second requires that you carry the machine you use to play the game to a place that has internet access.

 

The two are not equatable.

 

They actually are.  In order to download a file you have to carry the machine you want it on to a place that has internet access.  If you intend to just put the file on a flash drive, and transfer it to your PC, guess what:  You can do that with an Inquisition save file on the PC, too.

[andy6915]

Okay, I lied... One more post. But not to argue, just to make one very strong and very scathing point about the Keep.

 

This all ignores that 10 years from now the Keep will likely be gone and I'll never be able to do a full series play ever again at that point without needing to use the defaults. This is the flaw of online being needed, because that means a server is needed. If a server is needed, it won't last forever. Despite all the arguing about my points in this thread, no one has even tried to address this. And why would I want to? Because I don't just not play games because of some arbitrary idea that a game is too old. I still enjoy SNES games and Sega Genesis games for goodness sakes. I still play Jade Empire and the first Knights of the Old Republic. DAI and other DA are the kind of games I can see myself still wanting to play a decade from now. But because of forced online for the Keep, doing that will mean being forced to use the default pre-history info. THIS is the main reason I want an offline version, above all other reasons.

 

I just hope some tech minded DA fans someday make a fan modded version of the Keep so that it will still be usable in some form well after the inevitable shut down of its servers one day, so the above scenario doesn't play out.

[Sanunes]

It sounds like you're saying, "because I cannot, YOU cannot." Is that correct?


A solution is to make an application for the 360 and PS3 as well. However, it's very likely much simpler to make an offline version for the PC than for these.

And you know what? if that's too "special" for you, I don't have any problem with us simply being able to download the files beforehand. And you could do that for a 360 or PS3.

 

BioWare has said with The Keep they want to treat everyone equally, so unless they can get an offline version to work and follow the rules set by Microsoft and Sony there won't be an offline version for anyone. Why would they want to start another argument in the media about how they favor one platform over the others, for they get so much negative press over anything they do, why should they just hand over more fuel to the fire especially about a game that seems to be dubbed "the possible last chance for BioWare".

Modifié par Sanunes, 06 août 2014 - 05:56 .

[pdusen]

The problem is that use of the Keep is integrated into the game itself. To use an offline version of the Keep (unless they're working on this already, on an import system), you'd have to convince your Dragon Age Inquisition copy that it was connecting to the online Keep, when it was ACTUALLY connecting to your offline version. You'd have to change game code, not just the Keep itself.

 

That actually doesn't necessarily require changes to the game code, just a well-written third party clone of the keep and a tweak to your hosts file. Of course, that means it's probably only possible to do on PC.

[Sanunes]

That actually doesn't necessarily require changes to the game code, just a well-written third party clone of the keep and a tweak to your hosts file. Of course, that means it's probably only possible to do on PC.

 

Not the game code specifically, but it would require finding a way to change how the game contact's the Origin servers and redirecting them to the local machine to use the local data.  Its not impossible, but I think it would be more likely to have something like a Gibbed editor that will just modify one of your existing saves instead of making something to use instead of Origin.  Which is what I have normally done for Mass Effect 1 after Mass Effect 2 was released and Mass Effect 2 after Mass Effect 3.  I never played Dragon Age 2 enough to need the editor.