Aller au contenu

Photo

Is Traditional save game import possible?


161 réponses à ce sujet

#126
AlanC9

AlanC9
  • Members
  • 35 788 messages

For the second option, from within the game--you have to take the specific computer you use for playing the game and connect it to the internet. There is no option to simply take your flash drive to work and use the Keep.


True. Will console players have to connect once anyway? I know PC players will. If so, then you can pick up your initial world-state at authorization time. Obviously a player with a non-connected machine and multiple world states will face additional inconvenience, since it's going to require one connection per world-state.

#127
AlanC9

AlanC9
  • Members
  • 35 788 messages

Not the game code specifically, but it would require finding a way to change how the game contact's the Origin servers and redirecting them to the local machine to use the local data.  Its not impossible, but I think it would be more likely to have something like a Gibbed editor that will just modify one of your existing saves instead of making something to use instead of Origin.


I concur. There's no sense trying to spoof the online connection if you can just edit the flags directly.

#128
Guest_EntropicAngel_*

Guest_EntropicAngel_*
  • Guests

BioWare has said with The Keep they want to treat everyone equally, so unless they can get an offline version to work and follow the rules set by Microsoft and Sony there won't be an offline version for anyone. Why would they want to start another argument in the media about how they favor one platform over the others, for they get so much negative press over anything they do, why should they just hand over more fuel to the fire especially about a game that seems to be dubbed "the possible last chance for BioWare".

 
Oh no, not the infamous "Bioware' last chance!" :P
 
If that's the case, then you go with the other option--make the actual file downloadable onto a flash drive that can be stuck into any gaming machine (provided it's formatted correctly).
 

That actually doesn't necessarily require changes to the game code, just a well-written third party clone of the keep and a tweak to your hosts file. Of course, that means it's probably only possible to do on PC.

 
When I said game code, I was referring to what Sanunes described, as in how the game contacts the Origin servers. That's information embedded into the game files, not part of the Keep itself.

#129
pdusen

pdusen
  • Members
  • 1 788 messages

 When I said game code, I was referring to what Sanunes described, as in how the game contacts the Origin servers. That's information embedded into the game files, not part of the Keep itself.

 

I understand that. That doesn't conflict with what I said at all.



#130
Guest_EntropicAngel_*

Guest_EntropicAngel_*
  • Guests

I understand that. That doesn't conflict with what I said at all.

 

So are you saying that you wouldn't have to change anything in the game files? If so, I don't really understand how you would do that.

 

Unless you mean some method of telling your computer that www.dragonagekeep.com/savefiles/file1.php is actually C://Program Files (x86)/Dragon Age Keep Offline/Save Files/file1.php--some method that modifies your computer (or your computer's "knowledge") rather than the game.



#131
YohkoOhno

YohkoOhno
  • Members
  • 637 messages

Okay, I lied... One more post. But not to argue, just to make one very strong and very scathing point about the Keep.

 

This all ignores that 10 years from now the Keep will likely be gone and I'll never be able to do a full series play ever again at that point without needing to use the defaults. This is the flaw of online being needed, because that means a server is needed. If a server is needed, it won't last forever. Despite all the arguing about my points in this thread, no one has even tried to address this. And why would I want to? Because I don't just not play games because of some arbitrary idea that a game is too old. I still enjoy SNES games and Sega Genesis games for goodness sakes. I still play Jade Empire and the first Knights of the Old Republic. DAI and other DA are the kind of games I can see myself still wanting to play a decade from now. But because of forced online for the Keep, doing that will mean being forced to use the default pre-history info. THIS is the main reason I want an offline version, above all other reasons.

 

 

Okay, I'll tackle this a bit.

 

One thing people have to realize is that electronic media, which includes audio and video recordings and video games are not permanent.  Books can last hundreds of years if preserved properly, but movies, tapes, etc, are in a much more accelerated state of decay.  It's very unlikely most of this media original copies will last past your lifetime.  Secondly, as new formats come out, old formats start dying out--video and cassette tapes are becoming more antiquated and it will be harder and harder to find media to play them.  You mention having old console games--but if you hardware breaks, all those items are just bricks taking up space.

 

This is especially true since the rise of the microcomputer (and which I'll include all consoles from the 2600 onward), these things are not likely to last stable more than a decade.  The PC user has been blessed with some stability--Windows/Intel really created a standard, enforced by business needs.  But people from the Late 1980s - Early 1990s probably have had to go through the pain of an abandoned platform.  Apple II, Commodore 64, Amiga, Atari ST--all fell by the wayside.  Even if you have an IBM PC, older games used DOS or 5.25 inch media.   You may feel comfortable since the PC Windows platform has been pretty stable, but with other elements creeping in--the rise of the Cloud, Linux, Android, Phones, Tablets, etc...it's entirely possible the PC platform may be replaced in a decade or two.  So, at some point, your stuff will not likely work anymore on the new platforms.  

 

But if the games are successful, they will be ported over to new platforms--there's a lot of legacy games out there that have been ported to work with Windows without a DOS emulate, ported to tablets, and even HD versions released.  So I fully expect at this time they would probably include a local version of the Keep if it no longer existed online, just like I would expect a ported ME3 to exclude the multiplayer or have it exist in a different format, and just like Ubisoft converted the Vita version of AC: LIberation to a PC format.  

 

The only drawback is that you'd have to purchase the game again--but likely at a bargain rate (10-15 dollars) unless it's a full remake.  And if you are so dedicated to the game you expect to be playing it for over 10 years, that's a small price to pay.  It's the same thing people have to do when they purchase an album they had on cassette either as a CD or digital download, or when they replace their DVD with a new Blu-Ray copy.  This isn't everything new.

 

The other point is I think that people who keep the games and play them year after year are a minority--and I don't think Bioware should go out of their way to have an off-line version of the keep if the benefit isn't worth the development cost.  

 

Also, games aren't really the same experience as books, movies, etc.  People complain about multiplayer, co-op, etc, but games are meant to be played, and while there may be drawbacks with this in the future, I would not like game companies to stop experimenting with cool things like companion apps on phones, new forms of coop, cross-game saves, etc.  Perhaps more and more some games (particularly MMOs) may become shared experiences that can only be had at a certain time in history, instead of being a movie they are like an event concert akin to Woodstock--and the only remnant will be the let's play videos.  I don't expect all games to be like this, but I also don't expect them to be the same as passive media either.

 

In short--don't worry about whether your game is around or still playable 10-20 years from now.  Enjoy the immediate experience and don't worry about that other stuff.



#132
pdusen

pdusen
  • Members
  • 1 788 messages

So are you saying that you wouldn't have to change anything in the game files? If so, I don't really understand how you would do that.

 

Unless you mean some method of telling your computer that www.dragonagekeep.com/savefiles/file1.php is actually C://Program Files (x86)/Dragon Age Keep Offline/Save Files/file1.php--some method that modifies your computer (or your computer's "knowledge") rather than the game.

 

Yes, you can change settings locally on your PC to make URLs point to your own computer instead of whatever web server they normally would point at. It's not particularly hard, you just need to understand the basic concepts involved: http://www.bowerwebs...ting-web-sites/



#133
Guest_EntropicAngel_*

Guest_EntropicAngel_*
  • Guests

Yes, you can change settings locally on your PC to make URLs point to your own computer instead of whatever web server they normally would point at. It's not particularly hard, you just need to understand the basic concepts involved: http://www.bowerwebs...ting-web-sites/

 

Thanks. That's very interesting.



#134
TurretSyndrome

TurretSyndrome
  • Members
  • 1 728 messages

I agree with you. I suppose that makes us elitists or something, though.

 

You see the same argument made against stuff like HD textures, mod support etc coming for PC. The logic is; because the other guy dropped his ice cream cone and spoiled it, I should too and should not be able to enjoy it. Otherwise, I'm an elitist.



#135
Sanunes

Sanunes
  • Members
  • 4 392 messages

Yes, you can change settings locally on your PC to make URLs point to your own computer instead of whatever web server they normally would point at. It's not particularly hard, you just need to understand the basic concepts involved: http://www.bowerwebs...ting-web-sites/

 

I could be wrong, but I believe that only bypasses a DNS lookup, so if they are using static IP addressing it won't work.



#136
pdusen

pdusen
  • Members
  • 1 788 messages

I could be wrong, but I believe that only bypasses a DNS lookup, so if they are using static IP addressing it won't work.


Correct, but hard coding a static IP address into the game rather than a URL would be extremely weird, and not at all future-proof, so it doesn't seem likely.

#137
Fredvdp

Fredvdp
  • Members
  • 6 186 messages

Other way round.

Actually I said Witcher 2 twice, so if you put it the other way around, it's still wrong.



#138
AshenEndymion

AshenEndymion
  • Members
  • 1 225 messages

You see the same argument made against stuff like HD textures, mod support etc coming for PC. The logic is; because the other guy dropped his ice cream cone and spoiled it, I should too and should not be able to enjoy it. Otherwise, I'm an elitist.

 

What you're describing is essentially just an exclusivity deal, for all intents and purposes.  If you're okay with the Xbox getting the DLCs first, and the PC getting it "eventually"(or never), then I see no problem with your wishes for an offline version of the Keep that those on the consoles may never get.  Because, you know, there's no hypocrisy there.

 

I doubt that's the case.  But who knows, you might have applauded the Xbox exclusivity deal EA made regarding Inquisition...



#139
Cyonan

Cyonan
  • Members
  • 19 374 messages

What you're describing is essentially just an exclusivity deal, for all intents and purposes.  If you're okay with the Xbox getting the DLCs first, and the PC getting it "eventually"(or never), then I see no problem with your wishes for an offline version of the Keep that those on the consoles may never get.  Because, you know, there's no hypocrisy there.

 

I doubt that's the case.  But who knows, you might have applauded the Xbox exclusivity deal EA made regarding Inquisition...

 

The same thing would be making Keep PC only for the first two months after release.

 

Or DLC requiring an online verification at the start of a new game on every platform except Xbox, but everybody still having access to it at the same time.

 

This is simply giving PC a few extra options because we have a less restricted system than the consoles.

 

Even if you bring in HD Texture packs, you're talking about a cosmetic change vs in-game content which is a big difference(plus, previous generation the consoles couldn't have handled the higher res textures). 



#140
AshenEndymion

AshenEndymion
  • Members
  • 1 225 messages

But texture packs and the like are usually mods.  Bioware has been mod friendly, but with Inquisition, they aren't releasing the details of the Frostbite Engine, thereby making every mod one created without Bioware's "support".

 

And that's the distinction.  There will be a way for PC players to create a keep file offline, and import it into Inquisition for the PC.  It's as sure as there will be a pirated copy of the game.  But there's no reason for Bioware to create it themselves, because it's only for the one platform.

 

I don't like platform exclusivity for options.  If a game is being made for multiple platforms, there is no reason they should be getting different things(or timed releases) with regards to the gameplay and story.  I accept that such a thing is the nature of the gaming industry at the moment, but that doesn't require me to like it, or worse, actively encourage such a thing.  In fact, I should try to discourage developers from doing it as much as possible.


  • Shadowson aime ceci

#141
Cyonan

Cyonan
  • Members
  • 19 374 messages

But texture packs and the like are usually mods.  Bioware has been mod friendly, but with Inquisition, they aren't releasing the details of the Frostbite Engine, thereby making every mod one created without Bioware's "support".

 

And that's the distinction.  There will be a way for PC players to create a keep file offline, and import it into Inquisition for the PC.  It's as sure as there will be a pirated copy of the game.  But there's no reason for Bioware to create it themselves, because it's only for the one platform.

 

I don't like platform exclusivity for options.  If a game is being made for multiple platforms, there is no reason they should be getting different things(or timed releases) with regards to the gameplay and story.  I accept that such a thing is the nature of the gaming industry at the moment, but that doesn't require me to like it, or worse, actively encourage such a thing.  In fact, I should try to discourage developers from doing it as much as possible.

 

The console players are not having Keep taken away from them, there is no difference in the story or gameplay that you are getting than if no offline version existed. There would just be an offline version of the Keep for PC, unless consoles could support it in which case I would argue that they should also get it.

 

"The players will find a way" is typically a pretty poor excuse for not doing something as it comes with a lot of additional issues. If they feel that the resources would be better used elsewhere then fine, but don't just say "Oh well you guys will do it anyway so we might as well not bother".

 

In most cases I'm not a fan of one platform getting something the other ones don't unless it's something that is unique to that platform such as PC should have a more fleshed out graphics option menu due to our huge variations in hardware.

 

However, just because the consoles can't handle something doesn't mean that it should be taken away from PC. I imagine the console people wouldn't be too happy if the reverse ever happened.



#142
AshenEndymion

AshenEndymion
  • Members
  • 1 225 messages

The console players are not having Keep taken away from them, there is no difference in the story or gameplay that you are getting than if no offline version existed. There would just be an offline version of the Keep for PC, unless consoles could support it in which case I would argue that they should also get it.
 
"The players will find a way" is typically a pretty poor excuse for not doing something as it comes with a lot of additional issues. If they feel that the resources would be better used elsewhere then fine, but don't just say "Oh well you guys will do it anyway so we might as well not bother".

 
The first Inquisition DLC comes out, and they announce that there are no plans for it to be released on the PC.  There is no difference in story or gameplay for PC players than if the DLC never existed.  The PC isn't having the DLC taken away, it just isn't getting it...  If that's okay, the argument that the Keep should be made offline by Bioware for those on the PC is also okay.  Otherwise it's just a hypocritical position.
 
What's bothersome is that Bioware has essentially said it's not worth spending their resources on an offline version of the Keep, by virtue of saying there won't be one, but no one arguing for the existence of such a thing is accepting that as a valid reason.   The complaint boils down to "It wouldn't be difficult to make it for the PC, so they're just denying PC players the feature out of spite or stupidity".  But Keep is, in essence, free DLC.  If you can't, or won't, download it, that's not Bioware's fault, and Bioware should not be required to fix your problem.



#143
Cyonan

Cyonan
  • Members
  • 19 374 messages

 
The first Inquisition DLC comes out, and they announce that there are no plans for it to be released on the PC.  There is no difference in story or gameplay for PC players than if the DLC never existed.  The PC isn't having the DLC taken away, it just isn't getting it...  If that's okay, the argument that the Keep should be made offline by Bioware for those on the PC is also okay.  Otherwise it's just a hypocritical position.
 
What's bothersome is that Bioware has essentially said it's not worth spending their resources on an offline version of the Keep, by virtue of saying there won't be one, but no one arguing for the existence of such a thing is accepting that as a valid reason.   The complaint boils down to "It wouldn't be difficult to make it for the PC, so they're just denying PC players the feature out of spite or stupidity".  But Keep is, in essence, free DLC.  If you can't, or won't, download it, that's not Bioware's fault, and Bioware should not be required to fix your problem.

 

You continue to ignore the fact that regardless of PC getting an offline Keep or not the Xbox still has access to the Keep. The argument is weak at best because of that distinction. We aren't actually getting any story or gameplay that you aren't, while if Xbox had exclusive DLC then they are.

 

The argument that was actually offered in this thread by Derek was that they've moved on and are now in the bug fixing phase of development. As a developer myself I get that, but I'll still make the argument that the argument for not including something shouldn't be "The players will do it anyway" which they didn't do, but I was replying to you saying that as an excuse for not getting it.

 

While I'm not going to touch the whole "it's easy to do for PC" with a 100 foot pole, I will also make the argument that if it isn't too much work then it's a nice extra to do and just because one platform can't handle it doesn't mean that the one which can should have that withheld as long as it doesn't do stuff like provide extra content(which it doesn't as I already mentioned).

 

If for some reason Xbox and Playstation could get the offline version while PC had an issue, I would be all for the console players getting an offline version. It's not like my online version of the Keep would suddenly cease to exist or have less features in it just because somebody else got an offline version.



#144
AshenEndymion

AshenEndymion
  • Members
  • 1 225 messages

You continue to ignore the fact that regardless of PC getting an offline Keep or not the Xbox still has access to the Keep. The argument is weak at best because of that distinction. We aren't actually getting any story or gameplay that you aren't, while if Xbox had exclusive DLC then they are.

 

If the PC has an offline version of the keep, the Xbox still has access to the keep?  By that logic, if the PC doesn't have an offline version, the PC still has access to the keep.  So why the necessity for an offline version?

 

The purpose of the keep is to import a world state.  This world state will change the game(eg is Alistair dead or not?  King or not?), granted most will be minor changes, but the idea that there will be no story or gameplay change is bullshit.  Anyone with an "offline Keep" on the PC would have benefits over someone without the internet on the Xbox.  Whereas, they're both exactly the same(default import) if neither have such a feature.  Yes, people with the internet would have an advantage over those that don't(in that certain aspects of the game will be present that someone without the internet would never see), but such is the nature of DLCs to begin with...

 

An offline version of the Keep, thus far, has been described as something akin to gibbed save editor.  It should be pointed out that gibbed wasn't created by Bioware, nor is it endorsed by them in any way.  As I said, I'm okay with some random person creating a program for the PC that will alter their game.  That's all mods are.  I strongly disagree Bioware should make such platform specific programs, especially for a game that isn't platform specific to begin with.



#145
dulku66

dulku66
  • Members
  • 32 messages

I hope bioware does create a off line solution for console or for any one who doesnt have access to the internet i no its rare these days for some one not to have internet but PLEASE bioware (i sound like a broken record) Support your fans i have been playing Bioware games for a long time and it wouldnt feel the same to not see my save carry over. I even brought both games again and beat them the way i wanted(other saves were lost) my prefect save just to play inquisition.Then i find out no save import which i no will be difficult to accomplish .I just feel like i have been let down a again by bioware. Guess i will have to wait to purchase this game until i get internet but some where at the bottom of my heart i belive Bioware will pull through and find a solution for this and for there fans. Once again PLEASE BIOWARE dont let the fans down but more immportly PLEASE dont let me down.



#146
aTigerslunch

aTigerslunch
  • Members
  • 2 042 messages

Nearly 40% use the internet, 60% doesn't, so those that don't will have to go with either loading/downloading from another location to transfer data, or just select premade selections.



#147
Cyonan

Cyonan
  • Members
  • 19 374 messages

If the PC has an offline version of the keep, the Xbox still has access to the keep?  By that logic, if the PC doesn't have an offline version, the PC still has access to the keep.  So why the necessity for an offline version?

 

The purpose of the keep is to import a world state.  This world state will change the game(eg is Alistair dead or not?  King or not?), granted most will be minor changes, but the idea that there will be no story or gameplay change is bullshit.  Anyone with an "offline Keep" on the PC would have benefits over someone without the internet on the Xbox.  Whereas, they're both exactly the same(default import) if neither have such a feature.  Yes, people with the internet would have an advantage over those that don't(in that certain aspects of the game will be present that someone without the internet would never see), but such is the nature of DLCs to begin with...

 

An offline version of the Keep, thus far, has been described as something akin to gibbed save editor.  It should be pointed out that gibbed wasn't created by Bioware, nor is it endorsed by them in any way.  As I said, I'm okay with some random person creating a program for the PC that will alter their game.  That's all mods are.  I strongly disagree Bioware should make such platform specific programs, especially for a game that isn't platform specific to begin with.

 

Because an offline option would be nice for people who have limited connectivity.

 

Also the Keep is not DLC as you don't download it. The entire thing, even the online version, is akin to gibbed save editor which is a tool, only in this case it's not one that I have on my local machine.

 

and yes the offline PC people would have a benefit over the offline Xbox people(Although it's still silly to claim it's the same thing as exclusive DLC). You don't seem to be too terribly bothered by the internet people having a benefit over the non internet people, even though PC being the only one with an offline Keep is just the nature of the platforms(our is less restricted). The only reason people ask for it on PC only is because the consoles can't handle it, otherwise people would be asking for it on all platforms.

 

It also puts offline PC players on equal footing with online console and PC players. Wouldn't it be better to get as many people able to use this tool rather than adopt a "If I can't have it then neither can you" mentality?



#148
AlanC9

AlanC9
  • Members
  • 35 788 messages

Nearly 40% use the internet, 60% doesn't,


40% and 60% of what, exactly? I find it a little hard to believe that only 40% of DA players have connected rigs. Are DA players much less likely to be connected?

#149
dulku66

dulku66
  • Members
  • 32 messages

40% and 60% of what, exactly? I find it a little hard to believe that only 40% of DA players have connected rigs. Are DA players much less likely to be connected?

Yea i would think a lot more are connected to internet i dont belive these numbers i legit but i can tell you one thing am not connected to the internet but i belive am in the minority.



#150
aTigerslunch

aTigerslunch
  • Members
  • 2 042 messages

They are 40% of the world connected to the internet as of 2013,  it is only exactly 39% of the whole human population, 61% not connected, in terms of just the US, 78% is connected.

 

I never said DA specific.  :)

 

 

 

Edit:  http://en.wikipedia...._Internet_usage

 

Edit again: Have to relocate where got the individual countries numbers and 78 is peak. However that 78 is 2012, so inaccurate cant find the 81% that was listed yet.