40 réponses à ce sujet

[andy6915]

So I was playing Kingdoms of Amalur today as a sorcerer character, and was played Dragon's Dogma as a magic archer a little before that a few days ago... And I started wondering something. In those games magic isn't some special thing that people have to be born into, it's just a thing people can learn to do just like learning to sword fight or something, and there are no demons or possession. Because of that, it seems that magic isn't particularly scary or noteworthy in those games. A person throwing a fireball gets no different a reaction than shooting a bow.

 

Thinking of that, I started to contrast that with DA. In this series magic is highly feared because of religion and the constant fear mongering of demons and possession muggles make about mages. But what if mages in DA were like the mages in other fanstasy games like the above? Would the Chantry and common people of Thedus fear magic near as much or treat it the same way if magic was something anyone could learn with practice and there was no threat of demon possession, or would people still treat it about the same because knowing someone went out of their way to learn how to electrocute people with their minds is still something worth being prejudiced to?

[Degenerate Rakia Time]

So what you're asking is what if we took something unique to DA and turned it in to something generic?

[The Night Haunter]

Well if Magic were 'learnable' a la DnD then this really wouldn't be Thedas, at all.

There couldn't be circles, because there would be no way to tell who would become a mage without time travel. That eliminates about 1/2 of the DA plots (Templars, Inquisition, Seekers, Tevinter as special for mages).

It just wouldn't be Thedas.

[andy6915]

Yes I know it would be more generic. Do you think I'm asking for this to happen? I'm just considering what the effects and implications would be. It's like wondering what the dominant species would be if humans were gone or something, just an interesting thing to discuss.

[Suledin]

They would suck.

[andy6915]

They would suck.

 

Yes, and? That's not the question. The question is how different would Thedus be, and in what ways. Does no one else think this is even worth considering as a point of interest?

[Samahl]

It's like wondering what the dominant species would be if humans were gone or something, just an interesting thing to discuss.

I think the point is that it's not interesting.

[andy6915]

I think the point is that it's not interesting.

 

Could be, actually. Thedus might still hate them, might still lock them up. There might be vigilante groups that kill any magic users even if it wasn't officially illegal. It's like in our real world where idiots believed witches were real and burned countless people on stakes because they thought they were magic users, I could see people in DA's world doing exactly that. Just because you take away some of the unique parts of DA mages doesn't mean it instantly becomes happy joy world for magic users.

[Samahl]

Just because you take away some of the unique parts of DA mages doesn't mean it instantly becomes happy joy world for magic users.

So does this hypothetical take place in an alternate universe where it's always been this way, or is this something that just happens spontaneously to the DA universe as we know it? If the former, there obviously wouldn't be the same issues present. Magic would be treated more as a weapon, and rightly so. If the latter... the same thing would happen. Your typical commoners probably wouldn't have the resources at hand to study magic anyway. I wouldn't be surprised if magic was banned completely.

[andy6915]

So does this hypothetical take place in an alternate universe where it's always been this way, or is this something that just happens spontaneously to the DA universe as we know it? If the former, there obviously wouldn't be the same issues present. Magic would be treated more as a weapon, and rightly so. If the latter... the same thing would happen. Your typical commoners probably wouldn't have the resources at hand to study magic anyway. I wouldn't be surprised if magic was banned completely.

 

Main reason? DA has always been a very pessimistic series, usually being about as dark and unpleasant as it can be. The state of dwarven and elven societies in this series are a testament to that. That's why I think it wouldn't just be happily accepted like the other series I mentioned because those aren't the kind of games to have the kind of atmosphere DA has. And that's why I think it's interesting to bring up, because it still wouldn't be like typical fantasy in regards to magic.

[Suledin]

Yes, and? That's not the question. The question is how different would Thedus be, and in what ways. Does no one else think this is even worth considering as a point of interest?

It's Thedas, not 'Thedus'. And I do not consider it as a point of interest as mage is my main class. They're unique and it also serves the lore well. 

[andy6915]

It's Thedas, not 'Thedus'. And I do not consider it as a point of interest as mage is my main class. They're unique and it also serves the lore well. 

 

I'm aware, that was a typo.

 

Anyway, this thread isn't getting much good attention. Guess I'll just give up, this thread isn't going to get interesting judging from the reactions to it .

[Treacherous J Slither]

People should be afraid of spellslingers in DnD. Their power is incredible and makes DA mages look like a joke. Some people are scared but there's so many casters and no real effective way to dominate them so everyone just lives with it and hopes for the best.

 

Magic in Dragon's Dogma is no big deal because a bunch of evil casters running around being jerks can be easily stopped by any armed force. DD magic is weak and it takes forever to cast anything.

 

In DA the muggles vastly outnumber the mages and there is a way to fight and dominate casters. So I believe that it will be accepted and when some caster acts up he gets punished just like a muggle would. Blood magic would still be outlawed as well as raising the dead. Some people would still fear the power but without the threat of demonic possession, the benefits will outweigh the fears in the eyes of most people.

[andy6915]

People should be afraid of spellslingers in DnD. Their power is incredible and makes DA mages look like a joke. Some people are scared but there's so many casters and no real effective way to dominate them so everyone just lives with it and hopes for the best.

 

Magic in Dragon's Dogma is no big deal because a bunch of evil casters running around being jerks can be easily stopped by any armed force. DD magic is weak and it takes forever to cast anything.

 

In DA the muggles vastly outnumber the mages and there is a way to fight and dominate casters. So I believe that it will be accepted and when some caster acts up he gets punished just like a muggle would. Blood magic would still be outlawed as well as raising the dead. Some people would still fear the power but without the threat of demonic possession, the benefits will outweigh the fears in the eyes of most people.

 

I'm not so sure of the DD part. For sorcerers that is true, but the more advanced styles like mystic knight and magic archer are in a different league, and their spells are pretty dang fast to cast.

[Skymaple]

But I think that is just not possible in Thedas, in other world with other setting, ok. But not in Thedas, because you have to think where the magic comes from. The Fade. Where do demons live? In the Fade. So, obviously, the demons' threat would still be present: as long as there's magic, demons will be attracted to mages/magic users to get into the world.

 

"Magic originates from the Fade, the realm where spirits dwell and humans, qunari, and elves visit when they dream. Mana is a measurement of one's ability to channel energy from the Fade, and this energy is expended in the practice of magic. Just as the Fade can be reshaped by those who have grasped its nature, so can the world of Thedas be manipulated by magic. The ability of a living being to expend mana is what defines a mage."

 

"The act of drawing power from the Fade can draw the attention of the spiritual beings on the other side of the Veil, leading to an increased risk of demonic possession if the mages are not vigilant enough."

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Mage

 

So, even if anyone could learn to do it, they would still be drawing energy from the Fade. It's not possible to separate magic from the Fade. You need another setting.

[Medhia_Nox]

They're just D&D sorcerers folks - there's really nothing new at all here. 

 

Warhammer Fantasy wizards are born with magic AND haunted by demons.

Warhammer 40K follows a similar mold.

D&D sorcerers were birthed in - I believe - 3rd Edition.  

Harry Potter wizards are born with magic and then have to learn it.

 

All these came out WAY before DA.

 

The only thing actually unique about DA mages are the things people want to destroy.  How these mages are treated. 

 

Note:  The Warp (Warhammer 40K) is also a far more complex version of The Fade - and D&D was doing alternate realities (called The Planes) for forever as well.

 

None of this is to diminish Dragon Age's interest - I enjoy DA quite a bit, but let's not pretend that a limited exposure to fantasy tropes means DA is unique.  

[katerinafm]

It wouldn't be Dragon Age if that was the case. But to be more specific, I think there would still be prejudice in the dragon age world. The thing that DA does is be more realistic in its view of magic. People don't go 'oh cool you can use your mind to light fires' they go 'holy crap you can flay people with YOUR MIND? Get away from me!'. So I believe that the chantry would still try to find an excuse to keep mages under control, etc regardless of demon possession and blood magic being a possibility. But they probably wouldn't have such extreme measures like killing apostates on sight or making them tranquil as easily.

[Maria Caliban]

What if mages were the more classical type in DA?

Then I'd have even more fun killing them.

Also, calling magic users from DnD and KoA 'classical' just seems wrong. Gandalf and Merlin are the classical fantasy wizards and neither of them spammed fireballs while both of them were born different.

[leadintea]

Let me actually answer this question and not be a stick in the mud like some people in this thread. Anyways, if anyone in DA could learn magic and not be tormented by demons and the like, there wouldn't be anything special about mages, thus, there would be no need for the Circle to keep them locked up, and the Chantry would've taken a completely different turn (if it would even exist) than it is. Since everyone would be able to learn magic, there would clearly be city guards that would be trained in the magical arts to combat and contain trouble-making mages, so magical damage to a town would be kept to a minimum. Overall, it wouldn't be anything too special, though I wouldn't have minded if DA were like this so that we could have more interesting classes and no longer have to deal with the Templar-Mage nonsense.

[Icy Magebane]

leadintea basically sums up my feelings on this.  It would just be the same as any other fantasy world, but with qunari instead of orcs.  Nothing special really.... the entire series is built on the concept of demonic possession and the Fade.  Remove those and you have a different IP.

[grregg]

Well, the magic being special concept is definitely present in the backstory and lore, but it's pretty much completely missing from the gameplay. As a mage you can walk wherever you want, squads of Templars fail to materialize after you throw a fireball or two. So I doubt that changing the magic would really be noticeable much.

[andar91]

I see nothing wrong with either style of magic; both of them are interesting in their own way. That said, I don't feel like a non-inherent magical system (a la wizards in DnD) would fit at all with Dragon Age; the way magic and the Fade works is so central to their setting, story, and lore.

 

The ONLY way I can see it working is if something in the lore changed. If the Maker "lights their fires again" means that suddenly EVERYONE is a mage, then you could do something like that. But I don't really see them doing that because it's so darned interesting the way it is. Maybe an increase in magical birth rates, but not a wholesale "Magic for everybody!" (tosses Fade confetti).

[meganbytez]

i think thats actually a really interesting thing to think about. 

mages struggles is a huge part of the story and makes dragon age, dragon age but i still think its interesting to wonder what that world would look like if magic were to be something anyone could learn. 

it could indeed be similar. especially if magic still causes abominations and demons. without the abomination thing? it'd prob be much like the other worlds you mention. but then it'd be interesting because of places like tevinter where magic gives one privilege. so would your skill in magic give you higher status in the general world? 

but if magic is something anyone could learn, rather than just a few that are born with it and have it in their blood, i feel like if people had a problem with magic (because of abominations/demons) then i think it'd still be highly regulated at the least. it probably couldn't be completely outlawed, especially sense its so useful but i could imagine if magic was looked down on, it could be a very controversial thing to even practice unless you are specially trained in its used by masters. and it'd sure make wars more complicated. 

would there still be circles? i would think so. could be like a school where anyone can go sign up. or maybe they would have to pay. so maybe magic could become influenced by class, like its some type of nobel thing. 

would there be templars? sense templars can learn to use magic they'd have to be people that don't want to learn magic or are against the use of magic. 

would dwarfs be able to use magic?? i mean i haven't read into a whole lot why dwarfs are unable to use magic so they might still not be. but maybe it'd be researched more at least. 

[Myusha123]

If everyone suddenly became a Mage, I see former Mages either being ostracized or being seen as Leader figures if they help the people.

If everyone was already a Mage? (assuming they didn't need much training)

The Tevinter blood rituals only commenced because of Mages having the lofty positions over normal folk and making them slaves. The reason they were noble was because of their Magic for the most part. 

So if we were to look at this in a manner where everyone was Mages from the get-go.

1. Tevinter would never have had slaves solely because of a magical hierarchy. They could have slaves for other reasons, but not because of Non-Mage prejudice. It's however less likely they would have the same amount of slaves as they did when Magic backed their threats. 

2. Tevinter would likely never have entered the Fade physically if it wasn't for blood of their slaves. So either Tevinter wages war on the behalves of the Old Gods, mines for massive excessive Lyrium, or never enters the Fade. Third seems most likely. 

3. If Tevinter never enters the Fade, Darkspawn will never be born as a result.

4. No Darkspawn means no Grey Wardens or Blights, Griffins/Gryphons/Griffons live on, and Tevinter isn't weakened by the resulting loss of Lyrium, Blood Pools, and War over the next 100 years.

5. Andraste got her victory by attacking a weakened Tevinter, who was the cause of the Blight, and had depleted their resources. Andraste is either not a slave, or isn't in the position to fight against Tevinter. 

6. If Andraste's Exalted March never occurs, the Chantry's formation after the Second Blight, where Mages proved themselves useful, would never have formed.

7. Qunari would not take such harsh stances on magic. 

8. Due to Qunari all having magic, either their technological advances are stunted to invest in magical enhancements, or their technology is supplemented by utilizing magic.

9. The Qunari would've likely taken Thedas with both Magic and Technology on their side. Or have been an entire species set on lives of self-sacrifice and constraint.

10. The major problem Thedas would face, wouldn't be each other. It'd be demons. Also Tranquility would either have always been off the table, or be used as means of useful execution. 

11. Dwarves either have magic, or don't, but their society thrives underground without any Darkspawn. 

12. Elves are...elves. They might recover their history faster? No idea. 

13. Old Gods might be a big prominent religion. Yay Dragon Gods.