164 réponses à ce sujet

[Deflagratio]

Once I receive the content, the only design intent that matters is mine.

 

 

Seems like you should just save a step and make your own original content then.

[Samahl]

Correlation does not equal causation, particularly in all instances.

 

What does this even mean, in this particular situation?

[AresKeith]

What does that mean? Modding was possible and permitted in both games. It was even encouraged in DAO.

Yes, we are allowed to do that.

I'm saying some things should be left alone, even if it's allowed

And what are you gonna do if Modding isn't possible for this game?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

When that's what the comments amount to, I don't see the problem in saying so. I don't see anyone being uncivil.

It's a very slippery slop though, so just felt like I should say it. 

 

 

It's interesting that you, of all people, would say this.

 

Saying that people who take part in racist behaviors are racist is not in violation of site rules.

What's so interesting about it? We got the thread locked the last time this type of discussion occurred, so figured we should learn from our mistakes. 

[Samahl]

What's so interesting about it? We got the thread locked the last time this type of discussion occurred, so figured we should learn from our mistakes. 

 

Allan specifically called you out for accusing me of racism/cisphobia because those accusations were unfounded. From what I could tell about his post, he locked the thread for the broader reason of the discussion taking place being a derail. I'd agree that this is all rather off-topic, but I'm not even saying any specific person is racist.

 

However, I'll stop talking about this so we can avoid the thread getting locked again.

[Battlebloodmage]

Just so people know though, the standard of beauty changes overtime. In China, bound feet was considered to be attractive since it shows that the women are of high status to have servants to everything for her. Some countries in Africa consider fat to be beautiful. In countries like Korea or Japan, lean and feminine are actually more attractive for men instead of masculinity in the West. To say that people prefer lighter skin are just nothing more than the result of the media influence how we perceive beauty in the West. 

[Samahl]

To say that people prefer lighter skin are just nothing more than the result of the media influence how we perceive beauty in the West. 

 

If it were just a western issue, skin lightening products wouldn't be so popular in Asia.

[Battlebloodmage]

If it were just a western issue, skin lightening products wouldn't be so popular in Asia.

You do know how big of an influence Western have in Asia, right? In Japan, a lot of the white models earn more than the Japanese ones, their slang incorporate Western slang and everything. A lot of the Japanese video games featured a white protagonist with a Western setting like Resident Evil, Silent Hill, Dead Rising, etc.

[Samahl]

You do know how big of an influence Western have in Asia, right?

 

That's my point. The west has a big influence on lots of places.

[Sinuphro]

They are not negroid, they ain't black. They are caucasian like the Australian aboriginals.

wtf??? lol now i've seen it all...a person with black skin but blond hair is not black??? a person with black skin and blue eyes isn't black?? this is too funny. Lol please stay off the bong ppl. This is like saying the child of an african and a caucasian is not black lol. Even ppl from india; alot of them are black; they just fortunate enough to get that straight hair lol

[Sylvius the Mad]

What does this even mean, in this particular situation?

You cannot support the claim that whitewashing a character has racist motivations in all instances, unless you expand the definition of racism so broadly that it becomes meaningless.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Seems like you should just save a step and make your own original content then.

I do, within the framework they provide.

[Sylvius the Mad]

And what are you gonna do if Modding isn't possible for this game?

Object. No game is good enough to warrant being unmoddable.

I modded DAO's UI, its mechanics, and made some cosmetic changes.

In DA2, I installed mods to change how the skill trees worked, how attributes worked, how equipment worked, how the difficulty settings worked, and made some cosmetic changes.

In the past 10 years, I have played only one game I didn't find it necessary to mod (Crusader Kings II - a highly moddable game, I might add). Every other game benefited from some tweaking.

[AresKeith]

Object. No game is good enough to warrant being unmoddable.

I modded DAO's UI, its mechanics, and made some cosmetic changes.

In DA2, I installed mods to change how the skill trees worked, how attributes worked, how equipment worked, how the difficulty settings worked, and made some cosmetic changes.

In the past 10 years, I have played only one game I didn't find it necessary to mod (Crusader Kings II - a highly moddable game, I might add). Every other game benefited from some tweaking.

That's not what I asked

[tmp7704]

An aesthetic preference for a skin tone is not equivalent to racism.

I'd say when the preference extends to dislike of the 'non-preference' that's strong enough you'd go as far as to erase character(s) with that attribute, it enters a pretty murky area.

[tmp7704]

It's irrelevant that they are rare.  The point is that they exist, so there's a possibility that they'll be born with blue eyes.

I imagine the problem is, when you have one character in the cast that can pass as representation for the black people, giving that character 'exotic' features that aren't common may send unwelcome message that typical looks of a black person somehow just aren't "interesting enough".

It'd be different story if Vivienne was just one of many different black characters as then her individual features would be easier perceived as just that, features on the individual (kinda like we by default view the white characters, because they are typically numerous) But as it is, Vivienne seems not one of many, but just one.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I'd say when the preference extends to dislike of the 'non-preference' that's strong enough you'd go as far as to erase character(s) with that attribute, it enters a pretty murky area.

In the 1990s, there was an American television program called Homicide, Life on the Street. One of the actors on the show was Yaphet Kotto; he was cast as a Lieutenant in the homicide division of the Baltimore police. Yaphet Kotto is very dark skinned.

In an interview published in American Cinematographer magazine, Homicide's Director of Photography discussed the difficulties he had lighting Yaphet Kotto. Because he was so dark, and because the show overall went for a slighty dingy feel, Kotto's features had a tendency to disappear on film. So, to solve the problem, they had to have a lighting guy hold a boom with a Japanese lantern on the end for every indoor shot containing Yaphet Kotto.

A lower budget show, or a show with a less skilled cinematographer, might have recast the part to solve this technical issue. They would have been replacing the actor, due entirely to his skin colour, for non-racist reasons.

This is directly analogous to the Isabela issue in DA2. The engine simply didn't render her skin tone well.

[Sylvius the Mad]

That's not what I asked

You asked what I would do if the game wasn't moddable. I would object.

That's a direct answer.

Depending whether I think the game needs modding, I might also enjoy it less, but I won't know that until the game comes out.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I imagine the problem is, when you have one character in the cast that can pass as representation for the black people, giving that character 'exotic' features that aren't common may send unwelcome message that typical looks of a black person somehow just aren't "interesting enough".

People drawing that inference would not be BioWare's fault.

[tmp7704]

People drawing that inference would not be BioWare's fault.

That's a "you see a racial issue so you are the real racists!" kind of argument. BioWare is in charge of character design. If they are aware of the message they can send and choose to leave it in, they become primarily responsible.

(I'm not saying they can't make such choice, but it then is their choice)

[tmp7704]

This is directly analogous to the Isabela issue in DA2. The engine simply didn't render her skin tone well.

There seems to be nothing about that interview in the "preference for certain skin tones" or "just not liking the way he looked" driving one's decision to replace the character. As far as analogies go, I think it's reaching.

[Sylvius the Mad]

That's a "you see a racial issue so you are the real racists!" kind of argument. BioWare is in charge of character design. If they are aware of the message they can send and choose to leave it in, they become primarily responsible.

I deny that such a message is possible.

[Sylvius the Mad]

There seems to be nothing about that interview in the "preference for certain skin tones" or "just not liking the way he looked" driving one's decision to replace the character. As far as analogies go, I think it's reaching.

In both cases, there was a technical issue that made the skin tone not work in that medium.

The skin tone issue is the main reason I'm looking forward to the new engine. I would like all possible skin colours to look good. And from what I've seen so far, both Vivienne and Josephine seem to jave turned out well.

Now I just need BioWare to tone down the lip gloss a bit.

[BrownMuscle]

They are not negroid, they ain't black. They are caucasian like the Australian aboriginals.

You are inaccurate and once again prove the racial stereotypes.

 

Black does not mean that, it is a word for the grouping of many different ethnicitys which are btw indigenous within the African continent and outside of it, just like when one says white which could mean Russian,Scottish,German, etc

 

Btw I have been to Australia and have alot of friends whom are aboriginal and they call themselves black

 

 

Ps having blonde hair is not a white trait nor blue eyes,learn actual genetics

[BrownMuscle]

Every time their is a discussion about a non white character somehow the discussion goes in their race and revolve around it smh

 

 

I think her eyes are brown thought bioware stated they changed it from green to blue to finally brown