122 réponses à ce sujet

[Enigmatick]

I'm cool with the changes. Except I don't see Shapeshifter anywhere.

I do wonder with the new wildlife if it would ever be possible to use the smaller creatures as sort of stealth mechanic.

[Altima Darkspells]

Well, remember, since Mages no longer have access to a Spirit Healer specialization, there wasn't much hope for pure support anyway.

But remember that Inferno and Winter trees aren't purely damage, either. There are fire/ice walls, glyphs, they have secondary effects like freezing and terrorizing targets. I imagine the mage can still go support, it will just be more of a battlefield and active support than being a buff/heal bot.

[andar91]

That was Holy Smite. All characters in the E3 demo were fooled with, plucking abilities haphazardly from anywhere they please. Abilities skipped over the places in the trees, for example, but the abilities actually exist somewhere. Stonefist was also missing from the trees we saw, though it was probably the most-used spell in the qunari mage demo. It's possible that the spell will be removed from the final product, but that's a level of uncertainty that can be applied to anything (hey, maybe they'll get tired of Varric and just remove him!).

 

I wasn't really referring to the abilities themselves. I doubt they'd show us Stonefist or Wall of Fire and so on and then take it out (unless they had a really good reason).

 

I was referring to the people who are assuming that the trees themselves are indicative of how they will actually be in the final product. A lot of the discussion (understandably) is focused on how the elemental trees appear to be their own trees. I myself asked about this in the combat Q&A ("Will Elemental spells overshadow other mage abilities like hexes and buffs?"). It just seems like some people are taking the trees way too literally when, at least to me, they seem far from finalized.

[Icy Magebane]

Well, remember, since Mages no longer have access to a Spirit Healer specialization, there wasn't much hope for pure support anyway.

But remember that Inferno and Winter trees aren't purely damage, either. There are fire/ice walls, glyphs, they have secondary effects like freezing and terrorizing targets. I imagine the mage can still go support, it will just be more of a battlefield and active support than being a buff/heal bot.

I understand this point, but we already had fear and paralysis spells... we had slow spells and sleep spells and waking nightmare... since some of those effects have already been folded into Fire and Ice magic, we can only hope that a few of the classic spells made it through.  I'm guessing it's not a 100% chance to freeze or cause fear in an enemy, so in essence, several spells have been reduced to possible side effects of causing damage.  Damage is still the primary focus of such spells.  Sure, an ice glyph might freeze a traget, but I highly doubt it will be as effective as an actual glyph of paralysis.  A fire glyph will cause the enemy to walk along a certain path?  Cool.  But we already had glyph of repulsion.  You see what I'm getting at? 

 

If the known skill trees accurately reflect DAI's approach to magic, then it sounds like it'll wind up feeling very generic.  I'm willing to wait and see, but I am not at all optimistic about this.

[Uccio]

Mages are supposed to be the nukes of the battlefield. Foot soldiers should crap their pants when they see mage entering the battlefield. Having a mage toned so down that a single mook from the alley can kill him is just plain stupid. Even in BG you had to steel yourself when there was a enemy mage present. Now in DA you just send one rogue to kill him. Lame.

[oceanicsurvivor]

Who knows how the actual combat was adjusted for the vids. Mages could have been toned down? Idk. I am one of those people who loves playing a devastating elemental/fire and lightning mage, but it would be a bummer if they removed some of the more unique trees. The devs are saying that there are more skills and talents then ever though, so I certainly hope that means there are more trees to be seen I am also really really bummed they got rid of Force mage. I was hoping it would be moved from specialization to 'normal' talent tree. :/

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

After seeing the skill trees I fear they have been dumbed down. 

What would make the trees interesting would be mutually exclusive upgrades.

Example: Winter grasp, 200% weapon damage and 2 second freeze.

Upgrade1: Winter grasp weapon damage increased to 350%, 2 second freeze.
OR
Upgrade2: Winter grasp damage 175% weapon damage, 3 second freeze - freeze becomes unresistable.

 

Can only choose one upgrade. One excludes the other.

There is also the issue of skill branches being too linear and boring.

 

I expect skill trees to be streamlined, uninteresting and boring. But I hope not. Another issue is that - If completing a skill tree for a bonus is there, it becomes mandatory. If taking all skills in a tree is always the best choice - then that hurts customization and the uniqueness of builds.

If a dev reads this can you please inform me if Im wrong? Because I REALLY hope I am.

[Kage]

I understand this point, but we already had fear and paralysis spells... we had slow spells and sleep spells and waking nightmare... since some of those effects have already been folded into Fire and Ice magic, we can only hope that a few of the classic spells made it through.  I'm guessing it's not a 100% chance to freeze or cause fear in an enemy, so in essence, several spells have been reduced to possible side effects of causing damage.  Damage is still the primary focus of such spells.  Sure, an ice glyph might freeze a traget, but I highly doubt it will be as effective as an actual glyph of paralysis.  A fire glyph will cause the enemy to walk along a certain path?  Cool.  But we already had glyph of repulsion.  You see what I'm getting at? 

 

If the known skill trees accurately reflect DAI's approach to magic, then it sounds like it'll wind up feeling very generic.  I'm willing to wait and see, but I am not at all optimistic about this.

 

Yeah, but of they do the glyph of frost to always freeze, then it is just better than glyph of paralysis to me, because it is the same effect, but much cooler. Because I really prefer to use a frost spell to paralyze than a boring "just paralize" spell. I know it might sound stupid and you might prefer the contrary, but for me its more fun since I can do a support-frost mage, which I find really cool.

 

I think you do not like elemental spells, right?

The way I see it, it's that making the spells "elemental" is just a matter of cosmetics, fluff, flashiness, awesomeness, and that it wont affect gameplay.

 

If we end up with all elemental spells just being damage and that's it, and fire and ice being too similar, then I will have to agree with your 100%. However, I don't think this is the case. Have faith my friend!

 

After seeing the skill trees I fear they have been dumbed down. 

What would make the trees interesting would be mutually exclusive upgrades.

Example: Winter grasp, 200% weapon damage and 2 second freeze.

Upgrade1: Winter grasp weapon damage increased to 350%, 2 second freeze.
OR
Upgrade2: Winter grasp damage 175% weapon damage, 3 second freeze - freeze becomes unresistable.

 

Can only choose one upgrade. One excludes the other.

There is also the issue of skill branches being too linear and boring.

 

I expect skill trees to be streamlined, uninteresting and boring. But I hope not. Another issue is that - If completing a skill tree for a bonus is there, it becomes mandatory. If taking all skills in a tree is always the best choice - then that hurts customization and the uniqueness of builds.

If a dev reads this can you please inform me if Im wrong? Because I REALLY hope I am.

 

That would be really cool, having the option of making a spell supportive or nuker, depending on the upgrade you choose. Really like your idea.

 

However, I would nerf much more the damage and boost the duration, differenciate them MOAR!!

[andy6915]

Just remember, different mages get different training and different nations give different training and different mages choose different schools of magic to focus on in their training. Want an explanation for spells changing animation and appearance and way they're used each game? Each game has you in a different place. Force magic for instance is done pretty much only in the Free Marches. The mages not being very good at support in DAI could be explained simply, that it just so happens that the training they received as mages differs from previous playable mages. There's only 4 possible mages on your team (3 if you aren't one) and I don't think any of them are from Ferelden... And even if one is, it's possible they just didn't ever bother to train support styles because it just didn't suit them.

 

Basically, spells and trees being different in a significant way doesn't hurt the lore at all.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Like some of the posters here, I am of the opinion that fire and ice, being polar opposites of each other should be combined in a tree. 

 

In fact, I am of the opinion that we should have one skill tree called Elementals and you have the Walls, Glyphs,  Nukes and Weapon Enhancements. However, you can have any of the five elements in Dragon Age (Fire, frost, shock, and nature) via a spell like Invoke from Invoker in Dota 2.

 

So basically, you have to invoke a particular element and then you can use auto-attack hand blasts, arcane walls, arcane glyphs, nukes, arcane weapon enchantment and top tier spells from it.

 

Invoke has a long cooldown for balance sake and you can upgrade Invoke to improve specific elemental damage or enhance the elemental side effects. 

 

For example, if we Invoke Fire, we can use Fire Glyphs, Fire Ball, Wall of Fire, Flaming Weapons and Firestorm. If we Invoke Nature, we can use Poison Glyphs, Stonefist, Earth Wall, Poison Weapons and Earthquake. If we Invoke Frost, we can use Frost Glyphs, Cone of Cold, Wall of Ice, Frost Weapons and Blizzard. If we Invoke Shock, we can use Shock Glyphs, Chain Lightning, Wall of Lightning, Shock Weapons and Thunderstorm. 

 

This way, we get everything. We get all the elements in one tree, as we should. We get all the options such as Walls and Glyphs with them. We can choose to specialize in specific elements or in specific abilities like walls. Best of all, no need to create 2 separate trees which means if a Mage wishes to be an elementalist, no need to spend too much points across multiple trees ! 

 

Strange how they did not think of this.

 

 

 

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

That would be really cool, having the option of making a spell supportive or nuker, depending on the upgrade you choose. Really like your idea.

 

However, I would nerf much more the damage and boost the duration, differenciate them MOAR!!

 

I coulve made a better examples. Well since Im bored Ill try for fun. 

 

Spoiler

Firestorm (Base skill)
100% weapon damage per second in 800 radius for 5 seconds. Cooldown: 30 seconds.

Basic upgrade I (Burning pain): Also slows enemies by 50%
Basic upgrade II (Cataclysm): Firestorm cooldown reduced by -15 seconds.

 

Unlock minimum one of the above to select one bonus skill:

Molten bombardment: Lowers radius to 400 and decreases duration to 3 seconds, but increases damage to 200% weapon damage.
OR
Fire Herald: Friendly damage in firestorm is reduced by 50%, and firestorm pierces 33% fire resistance. 

Example.

 

Bob plays on normal with no friendly fire. He does not want to spend to many skills on firestorm. He goes for firestorm+Cataclysm+Molten, ignoring burning pain to save a skillpoint and also skipping fire herald. His firestorm is now: 200% weapon damage for 3 seconds in a 400 radius with only a 15 second cooldown.

Jeff on the other hand plays nightmare and want to heavily invest in this skill. He picks both burning pain and cataclysm and goes for fire herald. His spell is a 100% weapon damage for 5 seconds in a 800 radius, that doubles as a crowd control by slowing enemies. His firestorm also pierces fire resist (for example managing to hurt otherwise immune enemies) and reduces friendly damage, allowing you greater room to allow team movement through it or allow a tank to tank in it relatively unhurt.

Heal (Base skill)
Heals an ally for 60% of their maximum health, cooldown 12 seconds.

Base upgrade I (Empowered heal): Increases the strength of the heal to 80% of their maximum health.
Base upgrade II (Celerity): Lowers the cooldown to 9 seconds.

 

Unlock minimum one of the above to select one bonus skill:

Chain heal: Heal also heals one other nearby wounded party member for 40% of their maximum health but lowers the main heal by 15% and adds +1 second CD.

OR

Regenerate: Heal also regenerates 5% health for the player being healed each second for 5 seconds after the initial cast, adds a +20% manacost on heal.

 

 

Lightning Strike (Base skill):
225% weapon damage as lightning damages an enemy and stuns it for 2.5 seconds. 8 second cd.

Base upgrade I (Empowered lightning): Increases the damage to 325% weapon damage.
Base upgrade II (Relentless lightning): Lowers cooldown by 2.5 seconds.

Unlock minimum one of the above to select one bonus skill:

Chain Lightning: Allows lightning to hit 2 additional foes for the same as the original damage, but removes the ability to stun. Increases manacost by 25%.

OR
Chaos Bolt: Allows lightning to bypass 50% of the enemy damage resistance and increases the stun to 3.5 seconds.

[Icy Magebane]

Yeah, but of they do the glyph of frost to always freeze, then it is just better than glyph of paralysis to me, because it is the same effect, but much cooler.

I see what u did there...

[LexXxich]

Paralysis effect is phys resist based, while Frozen effect is cold resist based. They both immobilise the enemy, but they aren't the same.

[Icy Magebane]

Paralysis effect is phys resist based, while Frozen effect is cold resist based. They both immobilise the enemy, but they aren't the same.

Good point, and more evidence in favor of a diverse spell list rather than cookie-cutter Ice and Fire... I hadn't even considered cold resistance, but that pretty much destroyed what little acceptance I'd had for the current system.  Oh well, still hoping for something cool in the specs or the unknown skill trees. 

[Patchwork]

Just remember, different mages get different training and different nations give different training and different mages choose different schools of magic to focus on in their training. Want an explanation for spells changing animation and appearance and way they're used each game? Each game has you in a different place. Force magic for instance is done pretty much only in the Free Marches. The mages not being very good at support in DAI could be explained simply, that it just so happens that the training they received as mages differs from previous playable mages. There's only 4 possible mages on your team (3 if you aren't one) and I don't think any of them are from Ferelden... And even if one is, it's possible they just didn't ever bother to train support styles because it just didn't suit them.

 

Basically, spells and trees being different in a significant way doesn't hurt the lore at all.

 

That explanation works if all the mages belong to and were trained in the same circle but our mage can be dalish, circle or qunari. Totally different cultures and teaching enviroments.

 

I love playing a mage but what I've seen so far worries me. This is a single player game why does it look like I'm being nerfed for a class like warrior which I don't play? They swing a sword, I rain down fire on my enemies, I should be doing more damage than them. 

[The Night Haunter]

After seeing the skill trees I fear they have been dumbed down. 

What would make the trees interesting would be mutually exclusive upgrades.

Example: Winter grasp, 200% weapon damage and 2 second freeze.

Upgrade1: Winter grasp weapon damage increased to 350%, 2 second freeze.
OR
Upgrade2: Winter grasp damage 175% weapon damage, 3 second freeze - freeze becomes unresistable.

 

Can only choose one upgrade. One excludes the other.

There is also the issue of skill branches being too linear and boring.

 

I expect skill trees to be streamlined, uninteresting and boring. But I hope not. Another issue is that - If completing a skill tree for a bonus is there, it becomes mandatory. If taking all skills in a tree is always the best choice - then that hurts customization and the uniqueness of builds.

If a dev reads this can you please inform me if Im wrong? Because I REALLY hope I am.

Yep, lets make every bioware game the exact same! Mass Effect has mutually exclusive upgrades so Dragon Age should as well! Lets take everything unique about the IP and get rid of it because unique is overrated.

 

As to your question the videos seem to show 2 branches, so not quite linear, but I'd expect them to be about as linear as DA2's, less linear than DAO.

[KC_Prototype]

I want a tornado spell that's an AoE attack and a wind skill tree.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

I want a tornado spell that's an AoE attack and a wind skill tree.

 

It will not be happening, I am sorry to say. 

 

http://kotaku.com/fi...xt-d-1584867161

 

From the Kotaku article, we know that there are 21 skill trees in total. Since we have three classes, that means we have 7 skill trees each for mages, warriors and rogues. Additionally, since there are three specializations for each class, that leaves each class with 4 class talent skill trees and three specialization trees. 

 

This is logical deduction via basic mathematics, not just speculation. 

 

This implies that we will have 4 mage spell trees and then the three specialization spell trees, from which you can either choose one or not choose one at all. 

 

If we take this line of reasoning even further and combine it with the information we have obtained so far from the demo videos, I would say that The Magequisitor will only have :- 

 

Fire, Winter, Spirit, Entropy + Lightning as our basic skill trees followed by Knight Enchanter, Necromancer and Rift Mage as our specialization trees.

 

I don't know about you people but the whole idea of having two separate skill trees for inverse and opposites of elements, fire and frost, is just plain wasteful. Additionally, lighting deals shock damage and entropy is supposed to deal spirit damage, yet the Spirit tree is a limited support tree. 

 

I have clearly outlined a way for Bioware to just make a tree just for Elements in one of the previous posts which would leave space for other schools of magic to be used by the mages. 

 

Reality is, from the information we have seen so far, mages seem to be getting the short end of the stick.

 

The mage schools abilities have decreased both in number and variety. In Origins we had 5 schools of magic skill trees, Arcane, Primal,Creation, Spirit and Entropy. Each one served a special purpose, Primal focused on damage and some crowd control whereas Creation focused on healing and Entropy focused on debuffs. In Origins we also had 6 specialization skill trees, Arcane Warrior, Blood Mage, Shapeshifter, Spirit Healer, Battlemage and Keeper. Once again, each one had unique roles. Battlemage was an AOE Aura Nuker, Blood Mage a Nuking Controller, Arcane Warrior a Tank, Shapeshifter a utility, Spirit Healer for Support and Keeper for Area Druid.

 

In Dragon Age 2, we had 6 schools of magic skill lines, Primal, Elemental, Arcane, Creation, Spirit Entropy. Once again, each one was different.In Dragon Age 2, we had three specialization trees, Blood Mage, Force Mage and Spirit Healer. 

 

So far, in Dragon Age Inquisition, we have only four magic skill trees and two of them look to be mirror opposites of one another, Fire and Winter. Support and debuffs are also seems to be limited to one tree, Spirit. We also have powerful top tier spells, being completely divested from being able to be cast via mana and turned into Focus instead. I for one have no idea how party coordination helps a mage cast Firestorm or Blizzard or Haste. Since when was it written that magical spells are powered by party coordination as opposed to mana ? 

 

Since we do not have a lot of information on specializations, I will not comment on them but when it comes to the basic skill trees and in fact leveling, yeah I am left wondering why they did what they did. I mean the world space is bigger, there are more types of enemies, magic is going haywire...and yet...We have less schools of magic available and they are not as diverse, we have some spells being blocked via Focus as opposed to Mana and we have the same level cap as we did for Origins yet we know that the entire area of Hinterlands alone is bigger than all of Origins combined. 
 

You would think with a game this big, there would be more leveling and more skill trees available. 

 

I am interested in hearing the rationale behind these decisions really. 

[Tevinter Rose]

I want a tornado spell that's an AoE attack and a wind skill tree.

 

Wind spells would be awesome. I want a whirlwind cloak.

I wanted to see new variations of old spells, a fresh take on elemental spells, for this game but so far I don't know. I guess I'll just have to wait and see

[themageguy]

I think the spells are looking great so far.

Regarding the tree topic, id support Primal having stone, lightning, ice and flame like it was in origins. Dragon age 2 having split the two i didn't like. Ice and stone were made for each other lol.

I really really want to know more about the rift mage spec.

[Hellion Rex]

I want a tornado spell that's an AoE attack and a wind skill tree.

I WANT WATER SPELLS.

[Patchwork]

Maybe the two trees will make sense when we see the complete tree list but so far Fire and Winter look like hot and cold versions of them same thing and that doesn't seem worth losing a lot of interesting spells for.

 

And I'm pretty sure Focus for powerful AOE spells is going to annoy me in the same way not being able to Shatter did in DA2. 

[Thibax]

I love Dragon Age Origins with a lot of spells, talents and specializations.

In DA2, somethings become restricted and less specializations.

Now in DAI, they want more focus and looks like that they are restricting some skills, spells and talents. I don't know, just an observation.

 

Why to restrict more and more? if more options we can create a lot of characters and can play many times with different creations.

[themageguy]

On the other hand, being slightly more restricted means they can focus on class and spec specific reactivity in the game many fans have wanted.

[The Night Haunter]

I WANT WATER SPELLS.

Bubblebeam!