74 réponses à ce sujet

[Voxr]

I find cameras to be too flashy...........

[Paul E Dangerously]

Yep, I didn't think anything could beat DA 2's Arcane Shield + rest of the effects until then.

 

Try NWN2 sometime. You'll regularly have so many buffs on a character that it becomes painful to even look at them.

[Realmzmaster]

Compromise or any notion of middle ground got thrown out the window when Sera jumps 20ft backwards, Iron Bull hulk-smashes the ground like the earth benders from the Avatar series and Cassandra bashes down a fortress gate with a couple of shield bashes. Seriously, I took a look at Fable Legends gameplay the other day and it looked almost identical to DA:Is, except Fable is known to have that over-the-top design.

 

I would take that any day over the totally unrealistic way combat worked in DAO (trying to be somewhat realistic).. From the two hander swing to the totally lack of fun in playing mages. Not forgetting all the broken skills and abilities in Awakenings that totally overpowered the party. 

 

IMHO, DAO was a pale spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate. I like DAO, but I liked DA2 better because DA2 for me was more fun to play. DA2 actually made playing a mage fun for me. DA:I looks like it will be fun to play for me, because it has tactical view and I can drop out of tactical view if I so desire.

 

If I want to play a war simulator I have plenty to play from Hearts of Iron to Bulge 44 to Gettysburg to the Total War series (not counting the cardboard wargames: PanzerBlitz, Panzer Leader, Europa etc. (yes, I am a grognard). All these games depict realistic combat

 

I also like lots of the mechanics from the older crpgs like Pool of Radiance: Myth Drannor and Temple of Elemental evil. Mechanics that many posters on this forum do not wish to go back from weight restrictions, eating, sleeping, fatigue and death.

 

For me any crpg that does not have the realistic expectation of death like in the early crpgs is already unrealistic. Bioware started that trend with Neverwinter Nights.

 

So I never find the realism debate to be very convincing when gamers want to pick and choose their realism, because that realism line differs with each gamer.

[TurretSyndrome]

 

So I never find the realism debate to be very convincing when gamers want to pick and choose their realism, because that realism line differs with each gamer.

 

Well, I never said that I find DA:O combat more "realistic". I'd say it's more grounded than either DA 2 or DA:I but it's definitely not better. I found combat in DA 2 more appealing than DA:O. But in the end, neither of them were anywhere close to being perfect. Some animations like enemies exploding into pieces of meat, two handed warriors swinging their weapons like they're from the anime Bleach in DA 2, still made my head turn.

 

The problem is not whether the game looks realistic, but whether the game is grounded. Saying that whenever someone asks for less flashy combat means that we are asking for war simulators, is just pushing a strawman argument. No one wants a simulator. They just want the ridiculousness of the animations turned down, especially since the game takes itself seriously in every other area. Sunset: Overdrive, Fable: Legends, Rise of Incarnates(PC exclusive 3d fighting game) all push that sort of design because overall that's how they want to look and feel. But when I weigh DA:I combat animations to the rest of the stuff, it just feels inconsistent and as a result, jarring or out of place. 

 

Again, I don't want realistic combat in this game and I can say with confidence that everyone here who is bothered by those animations also feel the same way. 

[Uccio]

Oh I see, like Leliana's Song of valor ?

Yeah, removed that ability from her.

I generally loved all the parry and dodge the game had in fighting. It looked both fighters actually were in the same space. Now the character just stands there and whacks the crap out of thin air, with lightning speed.

[Bigbar]

I agree needs more lens flare, common bioware less flash more lens flare.

[J-Reyno]

I'm not a huge fan of the exaggerated and cartoon-y effects either.  I prefer combat that's more grounded and gritty like Dark Souls.  Even so, what's important to me is that whatever the style of combat, it's good.  If it's good and fun then I won't really be bothered. 

 

But still, could you imagine a game that played like Dark Souls with the story and character interaction of the DA series?  Omg...

[TEWR]

My concern's less on flashy and more on challenge, consistency, logic, and fair application of the rules for both the enemies and us (and allies).

 

Are there some things I don't care for? Sure, like Cassandra taking down a gate by herself (though there are circumstances for that particular gate we saw that might change things a touch), but all in all this isn't anything new. DAO had some pretty bad combat skills and mechanics.

[ManOfSteel]

Looks good to me.

[Realmzmaster]

Well, I never said that I find DA:O combat more "realistic". I'd say it's more grounded than either DA 2 or DA:I but it's definitely not better. I found combat in DA 2 more appealing than DA:O. But in the end, neither of them were anywhere close to being perfect. Some animations like enemies exploding into pieces of meat, two handed warriors swinging their weapons like they're from the anime Bleach in DA 2, still made my head turn.

 

The problem is not whether the game looks realistic, but whether the game is grounded. Saying that whenever someone asks for less flashy combat means that we are asking for war simulators, is just pushing a strawman argument. No one wants a simulator. They just want the ridiculousness of the animations turned down, especially since the game takes itself seriously in every other area. Sunset: Overdrive, Fable: Legends, Rise of Incarnates(PC exclusive 3d fighting game) all push that sort of design because overall that's how they want to look and feel. But when I weigh DA:I combat animations to the rest of the stuff, it just feels inconsistent and as a result, jarring or out of place. 

 

Again, I don't want realistic combat in this game and I can say with confidence that everyone here who is bothered by those animations also feel the same way. 

 

But that is just it everyone is not bother by the animations as many of the opinions in this thread point out. What is flashy to one gamer is not flashy to another. So Bioware is trying to straddle the middle ground between boring combat (to some) and flash (to others).

 

So there will be compromise. Each individual will have to decide whether or not that compromise is acceptable.

 

I want death to matter in a crpg (including death of protagonist and companions like Baldur's Gate and other earlier crpgs). I have long since resigned myself to the fact that it will not happen unless an independent developer does it (waiting for Wasteland 2 and others) or a publisher takes a gamble like Ubisoft (along with developer) Limbic did with Might and Magic Legacy  (X). Why? because many gamers do not want those types of mechanics.

 

I for one welcome the ability to go into isometric (tactical) view and the limits on health/mana regeneration coming in DAI.

 

I like the fact that Isabella did not come back if her friendship/rivalry level was not high enough. It actually showed consequences to actions that to me was more realistic. I look to see more of that in DAI. I want to see resource management that affects the party (which appears to be in DAI).

 

I want to see sacrifice of a party member in combat affect the game and game world (by locking out that companion's content). Or as in Baldur's Gate if companions are recruited as a pair they will leave the group as a pair (unless one died in combat, due to injury, poison or disease).

But, I have as I said resigned myself to the point that it will most likely not happen in Bioware games any more.

 

Each gamer's definition of realistic elements is not the same and their idea of what is and is not flashy is not the same.

 

So there will be compromise. I do not care if Sera can jump 20 feet in the air or Cassandra can bash down iron doors as long as an in-game reason is given for the ability. If Cassandra can focus all of her willpower to a single point changing her fist into living iron (ala Iron Fist) I am cool with it if there is an in-game explanation.

[tmp7704]

I would take that any day over the totally unrealistic way combat worked in DAO (trying to be somewhat realistic).. From the two hander swing to the totally lack of fun in playing mages.

Total lack of fun in playing mages, really? I don't know, for me tricking the enemies into neat bunch as they'd try to get through the door and then throwing cone on flames in all their faces never got old. Neither did other CC and spell combinations, and finding ways to position the AOEs to best effect without harming my own team in the process.

[Realmzmaster]

Total lack of fun in playing mages, really? I don't know, for me tricking the enemies into neat bunch as they'd try to get through the door and then throwing cone on flames in all their faces never got old. Neither did other CC and spell combinations, and finding ways to position the AOEs to best effect without harming my own team in the process.

 

As I always state YMMV. I had more fun playing mages in DA2 than DAO.  I also forgot about the rogue doing a bad imitation of the Bear's Super Bowl shuffle. I like playing rogues. Rogues in DA2 were spectacular! 

[tmp7704]

Rogues in DA2 were spectacular!

I got bored of watching rogues being spectacular (sorry, awesome) roughly when Isabela did her amped to 11 animations for the fifth time killing some common schmuck. It was like perfect illustration for that Incredibles quote, "when everyone is special then no one is". Like you say, YMMV.

[Morroian]

Well, I never said that I find DA:O combat more "realistic". I'd say it's more grounded than either DA 2 or DA:I but it's definitely not better. I found combat in DA 2 more appealing than DA:O. But in the end, neither of them were anywhere close to being perfect. Some animations like enemies exploding into pieces of meat, two handed warriors swinging their weapons like they're from the anime Bleach in DA 2, still made my head turn.

 

I would say the DAI combat looks significantly more grounded than DA2 with a weightiness to it that was lacking in DA2, and appears to be a good compromise between DAO and DA2.

[aTigerslunch]

Too flashy, is what flashers is all about.......

 

 

I don't mind the combat the way it is. I like it.

[Grieving Natashina]

I personally enjoyed the flashier combat of DA2.  For the first time in any RPG, I enjoyed played a two-handed warrior.  I didn't feel like I was slogging through mud, and the exaggerated animations made it fun to play.  I can understand why some folks feel it was overstated, but I personally had no problem with it.  I'm hoping for something more exciting than Origins but less dramatic than DA2.  So far, the combat appears to be hitting that middle ground, but I won't really be able to judge until I'm playing the game.

[9TailsFox]

I agree needs more lens flare, common bioware less flash more lens flare.

I like flashy. And this is probably op.

[KaiserShep]

Somebody obviously can't tell the difference between glowing and flashy.

 

The complaint in the OP seems to specifically be the glowing stuff that occurs during combat, which is exactly the same as what went on in DA:O, only in DA:O, the abilities that activated these visual cues often did not go away when combat was over, which was corrected in DA2.

[Eralrik]

Personally I like Flashy when it comes to Mages, I like seeing what I'm casting and what the effect is on the person or persons I cast it at.

 

2 handed swords felt fine in DA:O as an example my Neighbor collects swords not the cheap imitation kinds that break if you hit something but real crafted antique swords and has paid thousands of dollars just for one sword but it's his passion, but back to the point I'm 6'1 and a good build on me, he had a 2 handed Great sword that weighed 23 lbs. cost him like 20 grand but this sword is epic and really heavy to swing and maintain one's balance, so slow and unyielding reminds me of DA:O's combat after trying this thing out myself.

 

While DA2's mage's were a tad to flashy especially with the staff spin and slam when casting spells, I still like my mages spells to be flashy. More inclined to see warriors remain realistic in combat and Rogues still able to do the stuff in DA2 I really enjoyed my rogue just not trap disabling.

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

Flashy is needed just as those boring car-chasing scenes in movies are needed. To fill up the void for those with poor attention-span (imo).

Personally Im neutral to it. Doesent bother me but I dont consider it needed in any way

[Dantrag]

Thats what killed Neverwinter for me, it was cartoony and flashy. Unfortunately that's what's been in this past decade for gaming. It's like that with fashion trends as well, kids are trying to look like Japanese cartoon characters with their skinny jeans and emo haircuts. I hate it to, but I think that's who gaming companies are trying to appeal to.

[aTigerslunch]

I watched a movie this morning and forgot all about it till now.

 

Comparing real life to movie life, Last Action Hero, it comes to mind when thinking on this subject.  Cars blow up when bullets hit cars in movies when they don't in real life. Special Effects adds more to movies in action and the normal flashiness of it in real life is far less dramatic. Mythbusters likes showing movie vs real life effects. Line of gas doesn't allow for fire to travel down its path from its source to blow up a car or plane unless right next to the gas tank.

 

So, I like flashiness versus real.

[Panda]

I like flashy and visually stunning combat. Reckoning: Kingdom of Amalur is pretty perfect with it's different weapons for me. However I also like Sengoku Basara: Samurai Heroes' super flashy and nonrealistical style XD

[abnocte]

There is a new video featuring a human female inquisitor... the video I saw had me wondering whether she was a warrior o Knight Enchanter ( I assume this specialization will be similar to DA:O's arcane warrior, so using a greatsword would make sense )

 

So from my point of view, If I can't tell classes apart there is something wrong. Its even worse when you think about the lore that clearly states that only mages can do magic and magic is something you are born with. Add to that the fact that mages are persued and closed in towers and I keep wondering how anyone in Thedas can tell apart a mage from a non-mage...

 

This is my biggest gripe against the flashy combat. I admit that when compared to DA2 they have found a nice middle ground with the animations, but I can't say the same about the non-spell effects.

[aTigerslunch]

Animation of poison, cold blades, electrical blades, and any others is sensible to be flashy actually. The magic's imbued on weapons giving flares works just fine to me. If they dont have magic imbued on them... say a darkspawn dagger plain, nothing attached, no poison or any mage beneficial spells. Then no, flashie wouldnt work with that weapon. But those flashies with the group combats has a mage being capable of imbuing the groups weapons with magic.