130 réponses à ce sujet

[BloodyTalon]

Your choice to ask those questions or not.

[Maria Caliban]

Don't codex entries solve this problem? Read the codex entry and avoid asking the question while RP-ing.

Sure, when the codex entry covers the information available through dialogue. The one for Howe doesn't tell you that he's your family's long-time friend or that he's been trying to marry you to one of his children because all Origins get the same entry.

[Revan Reborn]

'Just don't pick those options' doesn't work because they have information I need.

I, the player, need to know who Howe is and his relation to my family. The PC going, "I've known this man for decades, but I have no clue who he is," is a poor way of giving me that information.

I should not have to RP an idiot if I want to understand the world around me.

If you already are an expert on Dragon Age lore and have played the previous games, why would you need to ask a question such as "What is lyrium?" like the OP suggested? These questions are rather straightforward to anyone who has played the previous games and as such isn't a dialogue choice you'd need to choose.

 

Please find me where and when BioWare has ever used dialogue like the line you suggested.

 

No one is RPing an idiot. That is purely a subjective stance on your part, as for BioWare they are merely informing by allowing the PC to ask objective questions. They can avoid this "idiot syndrome" by using more clever writing and dialogue to avoid potentially offending you as well.

 

I see this really as a non-issue, as again, you don't need to choose those dialogue choices, and often times the answer and extra context rarely adds to the experience or is necessary for playing the game.

[Revan Reborn]

Sure, when the codex entry covers the information available through dialogue. The one for Howe doesn't tell you that he's your family's long-time friend or that he's been trying to marry you to one of his children because all Origins get the same entry.

Howe is an irrelevant character that had a miniscule role in DA:O. They gave us enough context to know the relation between you and him and then they exposed of him later on in the story. You act as if he is an integral part of understanding the overarching theme and plot of the game.

[godModeAlpha]

If you already are an expert on Dragon Age lore and have played the previous games, why would you need to ask a question such as "What is lyrium?" like the OP suggested? These questions are rather straightforward to anyone who has played the previous games and as such isn't a dialogue choice you'd need to choose.
 
Please find me where and when BioWare has ever used dialogue like the line you suggested.
 
No one is RPing an idiot. That is purely a subjective stance on your part, as for BioWare they are merely informing by allowing the PC to ask objective questions. They can avoid this "idiot syndrome" by using more clever writing and dialogue to avoid potentially offending you as well.
 
I see this really as a non-issue, as again, you don't need to choose those dialogue choices, and often times the answer and extra context rarely adds to the experience or is necessary for playing the game.

Codex can be beneficial and not. Was one of the reasons I was pissed off about ME1, one had to read the codex to learn about the lore.

Personally prefer in game options.

[KC_Prototype]

Those are crucial for new players and role playing, I don't see the problem. You can simply not choose those responses. 

[Revan Reborn]

Codex can be beneficial and not. Was one of the reasons I was pissed off about ME1, one had to read the codex to learn about the lore.

Personally prefer in game options.

I'm all for it. If you want the extra context, the dialogue choices are provided for you. If you don't want to hear those options at the risk of feeling like an idiot and already knowing the answers, avoid them.

[Icy Magebane]

As long as there is a way to avoid asking stupid or obvious questions, I am okay with their inclusion.  On the other hand, certain games (Skyrim) don't give you any option besides ending the conversation.  Sometimes you still get railroaded into sounding like you're an alien visitor because there's no other way to continue the quest dialogue.  If that situation can be reasonably avoided, I see no problem with a few extra dialogue options... they help new players understand the world and can even help veterans with roleplaying characters with varying degrees of experience.

[Maria Caliban]

If you already are an expert on Dragon Age lore and have played the previous games, why would you need to ask a question such as "What is lyrium?" like the OP suggested?

I plan to play a qunari Inquisitor. That means my PC probably knows more about how vassoth qunari live, their customs, and their experiences than I, the player, do. I don't want to bump into another vassoth, get into a conversation with them, and ask 'Why don't qunari bury their dead?' Because this is something the PC knows, even if I don't.

Likewise, a PC who plays a surface dwarf is probably well-traveled and knows about the various politics of the region. That doesn't mean that the player does. A Dalish Keeper/First probably knows far more about elven mythology, rituals, and symbolism than the player.

I mean, we start the game at a peace conference, but I don't know how that came about at all. I know that Chantry is holding it and it's to make peace between the mages and templars, but who are the 'leaders' of the mage and templar faction? What are their demands? Why are they holding it at Andreste's grave?

These are things the PC would know, even if I don't. So I, the player, will want to get information about them, but I'd like to do so without the PC looking stupid.

[godModeAlpha]

I'm all for it. If you want the extra context, the dialogue choices are provided for you. If you don't want to hear those options at the risk of feeling like an idiot and already knowing the answers, avoid them.

Fair enough. I can imagine why it can get annoying in the long run if one is already knowledgeable with the story.

Tbh I played ME1 without any knowledge of the ME universe, for new gamers it would be beneficial to have it in the dialogue wheel

[Weltea]

you...can choose not to have your characters ask something? you can actually choose to not pick a question even if it shows up. i know,totally crazy.

or if not pressing a button is way too hard for you just headcanon it as a)your character just wanting to know that particular persons knowledge/opinion or b)trying to be annoying by asking something they should know or c)having lived a very sheltered life etc.

 

honestly i don't understand what you're even complaining about, that the game isn't a 100% tailored to you and your knowledge of the game?

 

 

 

 

as for the pc acting like 'less of an idiot', there have been moments in the past games where it was pretty clear that a character was lying or a particular choice was gonna come back to hunt you etc. and you had no option to call them out or to pick another course of action. THAT is something that made the pc look foolish and i hope they do better with those situations in da:i

[Heimdall]

I actually like to Roleplay a Dalish that doesn't know a whole lot about Andrastrian society.

He's not an idiot, just sheltered.

[PsychoBlonde]

Codex can be beneficial and not. Was one of the reasons I was pissed off about ME1, one had to read the codex to learn about the lore.

Personally prefer in game options.

 

Me too.

[PsychoBlonde]

The goal is to give the player information without making the PC look like an idiot.

'Just don't pick those options' doesn't work because they have information I need.

 

Yep.  There's a WORLD of difference between:

 

NPC: "It all derives from the Elven magics . . ."

PC:  "There are Elven magics?!?!"

NPC: "Yes, from ancient Arlathan."

 

and 

 

NPC: "It all derives from the Elven magics . . ."

PC:  "You mean, from Arlathan?"

NPC:  "They used them to shape the landscape . . ."

 

Exactly the same exposition.  The first one makes the PC look like Derpy McDerpstein.  The second one makes it look like the PC might actually have paid attention in class.

[PsychoBlonde]

y

as for the pc acting like 'less of an idiot', there have been moments in the past games where it was pretty clear that a character was lying or a particular choice was gonna come back to hunt you etc. and you had no option to call them out or to pick another course of action. THAT is something that made the pc look foolish and i hope they do better with those situations in da:i

 

This too.  Even being able to say "something seems fishy about this" would often be a HUGE improvement.

[Kimarous]

Yep.  There's a WORLD of difference between:

 

NPC: "It all derives from the Elven magics . . ."

PC:  "There are Elven magics?!?!"

NPC: "Yes, from ancient Arlathan."

 

and 

 

NPC: "It all derives from the Elven magics . . ."

PC:  "You mean, from Arlathan?"

NPC:  "They used them to shape the landscape . . ."

 

Exactly the same exposition.  The first one makes the PC look like Derpy McDerpstein.  The second one makes it look like the PC might actually have paid attention in class.

 

Yeah. It would really help if a lot of "your character should know this already" dialogue were replaced with an expository remark on behalf of the PC, rather than a question that prompts exposition from someone else. The very start of the Dwarf Commoner origin is good at this.

[Shelondias]

People who have the opportunity to seek and seek knowledge are idiots?
I would have figured those who ignore knowledge are idiots.

[Maria Caliban]

People who have the opportunity to seek and seek knowledge are idiots?
I would have figured those who ignore knowledge are idiots.

^ Probably has not read the entire thread.

[Kimarous]

People who have the opportunity to seek and seek knowledge are idiots?
I would have figured those who ignore knowledge are idiots.

 

Less "people who seek knowledge are idiots" and more "people who ask questions about things they should already know about are idiots." Like in the Ultima series, where you can ask in Ultima 9 what the Codex of Ultimate Wisdom is - which, for the record, is a major plot device in the series you've used in multiple games and is the basis for the philosophy you follow. As Noah "The Spoony One" Antwiller said, "This is like the Pope asking what the ****ing Bible is!"

[Shelondias]

I usually just pretend my companions are asking questions about those things.
It was easier when I was a dwarf in DAO and stuff like "Whats a paragon?" came up.

[Tremere]

Tremere made me ashamed. i am sorry. Paladin is holy warrior so practically templar. mainly strong tank who buff his ally with holy light.

Spoiler

No. No. No. My friend... I'm not in the business of shaming anyone. If that's what you took away from my comment, I apologize. That is never my intent.

[The Night Haunter]

Meh, to be honest I never considered myself (my character) an idiot while asking silly questions. I don't get into RPing quite so much as that, but I do appreciate the point being made. I do prefer options similar to the Mage Origin (where questions make sense most of the time) or the Dwarven Commoner (where you simply make remarks and other people are nice and explain for you without you actually asking a question your char wouldn't have asked).

 

But overall I never really felt like my character was an idiot. Apart from while playing Mark of the Assassin.