130 réponses à ce sujet

[Thandal N'Lyman]

Less "people who seek knowledge are idiots" and more "people who ask questions about things they should already know about are idiots." Like in the Ultima series, where you can ask in Ultima 9 what the Codex of Ultimate Wisdom is - which, for the record, is a major plot device in the series you've used in multiple games and is the basis for the philosophy you follow. As Noah "The Spoony One" Antwiller said, "This is like the Pope asking what the ****ing Bible is!"

 

No, it's not  like the Pope asking what the Bible is.  Just as with game mods that you, personally, have no need or desire to use, the dialogue options that seem pointlessly elementary to YOU might be the explanation of a topic another use has never encountered.  Even if one could somehow determine with 100% accuracy what information should be assigned to the the "basic", "intermediate", and "advanced" Lore Monger Setting™, what if someone who thought s/he was at the "intermediate" level had missed a particular reference?

 

If a question seems "idiotic" to you, don't ask it!  Simple. 

[Tremere]

I'm not sure, but I'm inclined to think that the paraphrasing vehicle within the dialogue options contributes to this in some way. I can't count the number of times that I chose "this option or that" and ended up saying something that I totally did not want to say, or said it in a way that didn't reflect how I felt. I'd rather the dialogue options reflect what's truly said and/or intended.

[Paul E Dangerously]

I found this especially irritating with the Mage origin, because you'd still have the same "I don't really know anything about magical anything" answers as every other Warden did. Did they spend the entire time in the Circle Tower sleeping during class?

[Rawgrim]

The Ultima 9 bit was pretty dumb. No excuse for it. That same character had been around the codex, and paladins, for 12 games or more. Then again that game did NOTHING right. It utterly ignored every other Ultima game completely.

 

I don't think this is an issue in Bioware games, though. Works pretty well when you ask alien species (in ME) about their culture etc. I didn't notice any "dumb character" issues in any of the dragon age games, though.

[Tremere]

Tremere made me ashamed. i am sorry. Paladin is holy warrior so practically templar. mainly strong tank who buff his ally with holy light.

Spoiler

The like is for the pictures. Very nice!

[Paul E Dangerously]

No, it's not  like the Pope asking what the Bible is.  Just as with game mods that you, personally, have no need or desire to use, the dialogue options that seem pointlessly elementary to YOU might be the explanation of a topic another use has never encountered.  Even if one could somehow determine with 100% accuracy what information should be assigned to the the "basic", "intermediate", and "advanced" Lore Monger Setting™, what if someone who thought s/he was at the "intermediate" level had missed a particular reference?

 

If a question seems "idiotic" to you, don't ask it!  Simple. 

 

The problem there is that the character involved damn well better know what it is, because he's got an intimate connection to it.

[Artemis Leonhart]

No, it's not  like the Pope asking what the Bible is.  Just as with game mods that you, personally, have no need or desire to use, the dialogue options that seem pointlessly elementary to YOU might be the explanation of a topic another use has never encountered.  Even if one could somehow determine with 100% accuracy what information should be assigned to the the "basic", "intermediate", and "advanced" Lore Monger Setting™, what if someone who thought s/he was at the "intermediate" level had missed a particular reference?

 

If a question seems "idiotic" to you, don't ask it!  Simple. 

You're missing the point. It is like the Pope asking what the Bible is. Let's imagine for a second that there is a game where you can play as the Pope.
The Pope should know what the Bible is and yet he's asking that question as if he never heard of it before, which makes no sense: wouldn't it be better if, say, instead of the Pope asking that question it was a child, and then the Pope explains to the child what the Bible is?
That way the player gets to know what the Bible is, in case they didn't know it before, and the Pope doesn't look like a very ignorant person unfit for the role he covers.

[TK514]

In a game with a Codex, I've never understood why the characters can't have a normal conversation about a subject they should be familiar with, possibly with exposition on the part of the PC themselves, that then unlocks codex entries for the neophyte player who wants more detail.

[Thandal N'Lyman]

In a game with a Codex, I've never understood why the characters can't have a normal conversation about a subject they should be familiar with, possibly with exposition on the part of the PC themselves, that then unlocks codex entries for the neophyte player who wants more detail.

 

You're presuming that players (especially "new" players) will read Codex entries.  I drive my son craaaaazy because as many times as I've played through both DA and ME, I basically never bother with the Codex.  Never.  Bother. 

 

My attitude is: "If the game can't be troubled to tell me about something in a convo, then it can't be that important." 

[omgodzilla]

It would be nice to atleast have some moments when the PC explains something about the world to some other character. We've never really had the option to play as a wise PC before.

[Sinuphro]

in all honesty, i'm confused about the definition of a paladin....is a paladin a warrior tank that uses only healing magic? or a warrior that uses only light magic or a warrior that can use any magic?? I often confuse paladins with magic knights or spellblade warriors or clerics that are warriors

[Eelectrica]

Isn't the protagonist already an idiot by default?

I mean he/she has been given the ultimate desk job as the inquisitor. It's only the fate of Thedas at stake, and the inquisitor might feel like a spot of Dragon hunting.

 

"Tally ho chaps, anyone up for a spot of dragon hunting? I know it's dangerous and we could all die with the fate of Thedas resting on our shoulders, but Maker dammit I feel like killing a dragon, or getting killed by one, whatever happens first - who can say. So what say you, lets slay or get slayed by a Dragon"

[Gtdef]

in all honesty, i'm confused about the definition of a paladin....is a paladin a warrior tank that uses only healing magic? or a warrior that uses only light magic or a warrior that can use any magic?? I often confuse paladins with magic knights or spellblade warriors or clerics that are warriors

 

DnD popularized the concept.

 

The DnD class is a Holy Warrior, all his abilities are tied to his faith and/or morality system and if he strays from his path he loses them. 

He isn't a hybrid. His level progression is exactly the same as a fighter, but instead of extra feats, he has extra supernatural/extraordinary abilities (which is different than spells) tied to his class, like dealing with undead, some support auras/spells, the ability to call on a mount and his signature move that is Smite, which increases his damage based on his Charisma.

 

A hybrid can be whatever he wants and change depending on the situation. Arcane Warrior in DAO is a hybrid, you can always sit back and play caster or go melee but sacrifices something to have this ability. A dnd melee oriented cleric is a hybrid. All his melee power is tied to a spell, so he can always choose how to tackle a situation but is limited by his more melee oriented attributes at casting offensive spells.

 

Paladin has the mindset of a warrior when dealing with various situations unless it involves undead/evil characters and can use a limited healing ability per day. Templar in DAO is the same. He is a warrior, but against casters he can use a few extra abilities. But that's the extend of what both classes offer. A few specialized options while sacrificing physical combat feats.

 

The whole confusion begins with the word archetype. Making a paladin archetype without using the paladin class, or try to create something like that in other games that don't support the original idea. So the next closest thing is a hybrid that uses spells granted by religion/faith or supportive magic. 

[WildOrchid]

Asking questions you don't know doesn't make you stupid. We may know about Dragon Age and it's lore, some Wardens/Hawkes/Inquisitors in game don't know about it therefore the questions. You can choose to avoid the questions or not, it's that simple.

 

The questions exist for new people who haven't played DA before.

 

 

Asking questions doesn't make you an idiot, it makes you want to seek knowledge. Asking questions is good and needed.

[umadcommander]

mfw hawke did anything plot related

 

[The Hierophant]

I'd welcome this. I see no issue with wanting dialogue options that allows you roleplay a knowledgable character.

[Frikipolleces]

You people seem to be missing the point. The existence of questions in dialogues is not a problem. The problem comes when you are forced to ask something your PC should already know in order to learn something that YOU, as a player, don't know.

 

If you want to ask Wynne about her past, there's only ONE dialogue option which initiates the conversation, and that's "how did you become a mage?". And it's completely stupid, because there isn't any peasant in Thedas that doesn't know that people are born mages, not choose to become one.

 

At least Wynne is a kind enough character not to bash you for being a moron, but in some other cases you get "wtf are you saying" replies, and you can't really be mad about them because they are perfectly justified. You can only suck it up and think "I DO KNOW, ok? I didn't want to ask that".

[Darth Death]

It's a means of exposition, unless you want everything to be exclusive to codex.  

[PsychoBlonde]

No, it's not  like the Pope asking what the Bible is.  Just as with game mods that you, personally, have no need or desire to use, the dialogue options that seem pointlessly elementary to YOU might be the explanation of a topic another use has never encountered.  Even if one could somehow determine with 100% accuracy what information should be assigned to the the "basic", "intermediate", and "advanced" Lore Monger Setting™, what if someone who thought s/he was at the "intermediate" level had missed a particular reference?

 

If a question seems "idiotic" to you, don't ask it!  Simple. 

 

How about the writers just don't phrase it in a way that makes it sound like the character has never heard of it, ever?  Novelists do this all the time.  You don't have to say "I've never heard of that, ever!"  You CAN present exposition in a way that makes it sound like the PC knows something but not everything.

 

And with a voiced protagonist, you don't know how they're going to phrase it beforehand.  You don't know if the "more info" question is going to be worded "Is this the same as that other thing?" or "Whoa, mind blown".

 

This sort of thing can even backfire.  By giving no indication of what the PC already knows, when you encounter something that's supposed to be a real surprise in game it has no impact because it's just another thing you've never heard of.  If everything surprises you, NOTHING surprises you.

[Dabrikishaw]

What I tend to hate in games (which have been in all BW games) is that when the game wants to introduce something to the player (especially newer ones to the franchise) where the protagonists acts like an imbecile who has no clue about anything in the world and has to rely on everyone to fill in.

 

Example, asking "what is lyrium? Is magic dangerous? demons? what is a qunari?" 

 

Yes, I get that you must introduce these to newer players, since we already know about these. But that is not an excuse to make it look stupid on the player. Instead you can have a rookie in the Inquisition organization or something asking these questions, and have the protagonist explain. 

 

The game wants to show a tutorial how to fight? Well what if instead of us being incompetent and having Cassandra training us, have instead a soldier ask how and let the Inquisitior go all "I can show you!" or "Nah, don't wanna [skip tutorial]"

 

Thougths?

Even though I agree with the fact that we can just choose not to pick these dialogue options, I do still think you have a point in regards to the knowledge the character in game should reasonably have. That's art of why I like the Human Noble so much you can reasonably call them well read and educated on pretty much everything in Fereldan and most of Thedas thanks to their nobility. Dwarf Noble falls into is same category as the Human Noble for the same reasons. Magi too, given all the books they have for reading.

[MisterJB]

Can asari reproduce with each other?

[The Hierophant]

Can asari reproduce with each other?

[Nukekitten]

Asking questions doesn't make you an idiot, it makes you want to seek knowledge. Asking questions is good and needed.

If an adult in a modern nation asked you what a car was - wouldn't you feel that person was either joking with you, attempting to ask something more complicated than it sounded like they were asking, or suffering from some sort of mental problem?

Asking questions doesn't make you an idiot. However, the sort of questions you ask reveal the limitations of your knowledge and the accuracy of your guesses. Which, dependent upon the context in which the thing is asked, can reveal you as an idiot.

[WildOrchid]

If an adult in a modern nation asked you what a car was - wouldn't you feel that person was either joking with you, attempting to ask something more complicated than it sounded like they were asking, or suffering from some sort of mental problem?

Asking questions doesn't make you an idiot. However, the sort of questions you ask reveal the limitations of your knowledge and the accuracy of your guesses. Which, dependent upon the context in which the thing is asked, can reveal you as an idiot.

 

Then this person is either in a mental state (which of course doesn't make them idiots) or joking with you.

 

If there's limitation of knowledge then that's why this person is asking, to gain more knowledge and not with questions like "what's a car", which i assure you there's no person that would ask this kind of question since one of the first things a human sees in this modern nation is a car since it's part of it. People usually will asks things that haven't been said in schools or not often discussed in general.

 

And no, this can't reveal you as an idiot. Just someone who has little knowledge on this matter.

 

 

People just love to offend someone by calling them an idiot for not knowing something. Which this, in my opinion, makes you an idiot for the offense. (this is not directed to you of course )

[9TailsFox]

Can asari reproduce with each other?

Yes. If two asari have kid it's pureblood asari, and it is insult. So asari are reversed racists.