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Assassin's Creed Rogue


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#101
ZeroPhoenix94

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The whole point of being an Assassin is taking out your foes in smart, clever ways, since you're up against heavy odds. With counter-kills, you're an untouchable one-man-army.


I get what you're saying, I do. Though at this point in the series, being an Assassin does not mean what it would normally mean to me. They're skilled people that while they try to remain hidden when taking out a target, are also pretty talented when it comes to close encounters. They are able to attack swiftly and precisely and take on a group of enemies in a smooth flow. Counter-kills added to the flow and not being able to do that just seems like a step back for Arno. Am I looking forward to Unity going for more of a stealth approach? Yeah, but sometimes it was just fun to run through the city and get in huge fights with guards where I could be a badass.

#102
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They removed counter-kills because they made combat too easy, and they made combat the default choice.

 

People weren't relying on stealth. They were relying on combat, almost exclusively. The team wanted to change that, to give a better incentive to use stealth and balance out the core pillars a bit.



#103
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I get what you're saying, I do. Though at this point in the series, being an Assassin does not mean what it would normally mean to me. They're skilled people that while they try to remain hidden when taking out a target, are also pretty talented when it comes to close encounters. They are able to attack swiftly and precisely and take on a group of enemies in a smooth flow. Counter-kills added to the flow and not being able to do that just seems like a step back for Arno. Am I looking forward to Unity going for more of a stealth approach? Yeah, but sometimes it was just fun to run through the city and get in huge fights with guards where I could be a badass.

 

Some of GameInformer's reviewers, who played copies of the beta for impression purposes, said that while you definitely can die and Arno isn't unstoppable, he's not fragile. Even with the counter-kill system out, you're still more than a match for groups of enemies if you're smart and fast. It's just much harder to BE a badass now, since enemies have equal capability of kicking your ass to the ground if you're not careful. You can still be a fierce Assassin, but it does require practice, skill, and intelligence. Rushing a group of 12 soldiers armed with muskets is a stupid move, and Unity is going to punish you for making stupid moves. Victory by playing it smart against a powerful opposition makes the satisfaction of winning even sweeter.

 

Honestly, there wasn't much that was "badass" about the counter-kills anyway. You held one button and kept spamming another, an unstoppable force taking out weak opposition with only occasional threats. It felt cheap. And it looks like Rogue isn't going to be changing that, with the threats only being slightly more threatening, and the weak opposition occasionally throwing smoke bombs at you (that you can totally negate by pushing a single button to throw on your gas mask).



#104
LPPrince

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Rogue just took elements of AC3 and AC4 and put them in a new setting.

 

Unity is actually trying new things. That simple really.



#105
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Rogue just took elements of AC3 and AC4 and put them in a new setting.

 

Unity is actually trying new things. That simple really.

 

Unity's on a new engine. Rogue's on a rehash. It may be why Rogue is being developed for previous-gen consoles rather than the new ones and PC like Unity is.



#106
LPPrince

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Unity's on a new engine. Rogue's on a rehash.

 

I'm sure Unity took far longer to make because of it, yeah. Rogue exists purely so that last gen consoles(where most gamers are at) still get a game since current gen is still in its infancy. More money that way.



#107
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I'm sure Unity took far longer to make because of it, yeah. Rogue exists purely so that last gen consoles(where most gamers are at) still get a game since current gen is still in its infancy. More money that way.

 

It's confusing to me, though. Black Flag, which looked visually similar and obviously near-identical in gameplay, was also on the previous gens. I don't know why they thought it'd be necessary to make another game that's just a clone of a game that everyone, even previous gen users, can go out and buy for a cheaper price and the same experience. Seems like a weird change of pace from Unity's brand new engine and redesigned features for a little cash grab.



#108
LPPrince

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It's confusing to me, though. Black Flag, which looked visually similar and obviously near-identical in gameplay, was also on the previous gens. I don't know why they thought it'd be necessary to make another game that's just a clone of a game that everyone, even previous gen users, can go out and buy for a cheaper price and the same experience. Seems like a weird change of pace from Unity's brand new engine and redesigned features for a little cash grab.

 

Again, monies. Some folks will get anything from their favorite franchises.



#109
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Some of GameInformer's reviewers, who played copies of the beta for impression purposes, said that while you definitely can die and Arno isn't unstoppable, he's not fragile. Even with the counter-kill system out, you're still more than a match for groups of enemies if you're smart and fast. It's just much harder to BE a badass now, since enemies have equal capability of kicking your ass to the ground if you're not careful. You can still be a fierce Assassin, but it does require practice, skill, and intelligence. Rushing a group of 12 soldiers armed with muskets is a stupid move, and Unity is going to punish you for making stupid moves. Victory by playing it smart against a powerful opposition makes the satisfaction of winning even sweeter.

 

Honestly, there wasn't much that was "badass" about the counter-kills anyway. You held one button and kept spamming another, an unstoppable force taking out weak opposition with only occasional threats. It felt cheap. And it looks like Rogue isn't going to be changing that, with the threats only being slightly more threatening, and the weak opposition occasionally throwing smoke bombs at you (that you can totally negate by pushing a single button to throw on your gas mask).

 

For the most part I agree about Rogue, but the assassin enemies will be very, VERY interesting I think.

 

Players who run around gung-ho are going to get hit by these guys.



#110
LPPrince

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For the most part I agree about Rogue, but the assassin enemies will be very, VERY interesting I think.

 

Players who run around gung-ho are going to get hit by these guys.

 

There's a sound cue though, right? Depending on the range they'll figure out when to stop and take a look around.



#111
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For the most part I agree about Rogue, but the assassin enemies will be very, VERY interesting I think.

 

Players who run around gung-ho are going to get hit by these guys.

 

They do look interesting, but it seems like there's only gonna be a handful of Assassins at these outposts or strongholds you attack. Most of your enemies are still the generic guards that couldn't kill you if they tried. And like LPPrince said, all stealth enemies have sound cues and visual indicators in Eagle Vision, so there's no point in being cautious anyway. I didn't even see any of the "tough guards" from 3 and 4 in that video either. Of the times I died to guards in Black Flag, most of them were from the grenadiers, officers, or snipers. They added a good challenge. But seems like they're not there now. That's a good thing about Unity. Most of your enemies have muskets (which Ubisoft has said they will shoot much more frequently than before), and if not muskets, they're specialist types with heavy axes, spears, or rapiers. And neither game can even compete with Shadow of Mordor, October's other "third person action-stealth game" competitor, where every NPC can become a powerful boss depending on how the game goes. Rogue has very stiff competition coming near its release date, and even for a rehashed cash grab I doubt it'll be successful. Unity and Shadow of Mordor will be overshadowing it I think, solely because it's barely doing anything different from Black Flag.



#112
LPPrince

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I'm sure they'll still be there.



#113
ZeroPhoenix94

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Some of GameInformer's reviewers, who played copies of the beta for impression purposes, said that while you definitely can die and Arno isn't unstoppable, he's not fragile. Even with the counter-kill system out, you're still more than a match for groups of enemies if you're smart and fast. It's just much harder to BE a badass now, since enemies have equal capability of kicking your ass to the ground if you're not careful. You can still be a fierce Assassin, but it does require practice, skill, and intelligence. Rushing a group of 12 soldiers armed with muskets is a stupid move, and Unity is going to punish you for making stupid moves. Victory by playing it smart against a powerful opposition makes the satisfaction of winning even sweeter.

Honestly, there wasn't much that was "badass" about the counter-kills anyway. You held one button and kept spamming another, an unstoppable force taking out weak opposition with only occasional threats. It felt cheap. And it looks like Rogue isn't going to be changing that, with the threats only being slightly more threatening, and the weak opposition occasionally throwing smoke bombs at you (that you can totally negate by pushing a single button to throw on your gas mask).


I thought they were nice, they certainly didn't feel cheap to me. Oh well, I know I'll enjoy both titles regardless. Too invested in the story to give that big of a crap about what they do with the gameplay.
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#114
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There's a sound cue though, right? Depending on the range they'll figure out when to stop and take a look around.

 

They do look interesting, but it seems like there's only gonna be a handful of Assassins at these outposts or strongholds you attack. Most of your enemies are still the generic guards that couldn't kill you if they tried. And like LPPrince said, all stealth enemies have sound cues and visual indicators in Eagle Vision, so there's no point in being cautious anyway. I didn't even see any of the "tough guards" from 3 and 4 in that video either. Of the times I died to guards in Black Flag, most of them were from the grenadiers, officers, or snipers. They added a good challenge. But seems like they're not there now. That's a good thing about Unity. Most of your enemies have muskets (which Ubisoft has said they will shoot much more frequently than before), and if not muskets, they're specialist types with heavy axes, spears, or rapiers. And neither game can even compete with Shadow of Mordor, October's other "third person action-stealth game" competitor, where every NPC can become a powerful boss depending on how the game goes. Rogue has very stiff competition coming near its release date, and even for a rehashed cash grab I doubt it'll be successful. Unity and Shadow of Mordor will be overshadowing it I think, solely because it's barely doing anything different from Black Flag.

 

As for the audio thing, yeah it's there, but I imagine it could easily ignored if you weren't paying attention.

 

As for enemy types, I suspect they WILL have the old types. It would make absolutely no sense to not have the same old enemies. I think the reason we didn't see them is because the only land combat we've seen is with Assassins, or at least the "gangs," not any towns or ships really. Though, if I recall correctly, when Shay shoots the berserk barrel, a couple of the enemy types that go berserk and fight one another are the officer type (that might be wrong).

 

And as for Shadow of Mordor, I've never seen gameplay but I've read a little about it, and I'm dubious of how that system will actually work. I doubt it will be what people expect it to be.

 

 

Rogue isn't doing anything different from Black Flag--considering that Black Flag was such a success, why is it bad to keep the gameplay and frame it in a new narrative? And, for the record, that's *pretty much* what AC Brotherhood did, and it's considered a high point of the series.

 

Don't get me wrong, as far as I'm concerned Unity is way way better. But "if it ain't broke don't fix it" is a well-known cliche for a reason.

 

Anecdotal extrapolation: I help appraise for something called Destination Imagination, which basically involves kids researching different topics and putting on a kind of drama about it. One of the key phrases that one of our team leaders says every year is, "If something was fantastic at the beginning of the day, it's fantastic at the end of the day, when you've seen it five times."

 

We gamers have a tendency to conflate "sameness" with a lack of quality.



#115
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I'm not sure. Brotherhood was never considered a high mark, but Revelations was because of the numerous new features it added, but the Ezio arc was heavily criticized for being repeated. Yeah, if it ain't broke don't fix it holds true to some extent, but I don't think when other options are being presented that it holds much weight. When Rogue comes out, players will have Unity, as well as Black Flag for an even cheaper price on Steam than Rogue will inevitably be at release. While some people may enjoy that, I don't think I will. I invested a lot of time in Black Flag, and while it's fun, I don't think there's any reason I'd ever pick it over Unity. It seems identical to the point of being almost lazy, like how the protagonist reuses almost all of Edward's animations.



#116
LPPrince

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I don't think its a good idea to release two AC games at around the same time. It hurt Liberations.



#117
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I don't think its a good idea to release two AC games at around the same time. It hurt Liberations.

 

Liberation got buried under 3 (I'm pretty it released alongside 3 originally) and was poor in terms of critical reception. Something tells me the same will happen to Rogue. Even though Liberation wasn't a bad game, it was still deemed inferior to its superior AC counterpart. If they'd release Rogue a few months before or after Unity, then it'd probably be better.



#118
LPPrince

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Aye, Liberation came out literally the same day as AC3.



#119
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For whatever it's worth, according to Wikipedia Brotherhood "received critical acclaim," while Revelations had "generally positive reviews."

 

Outside of that, one thing to remember is that the two games are being marketed at two different demographics, "next" vs "old" gen. They aren't competing, presumably, at least they aren't meant to.



#120
LPPrince

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For whatever it's worth, according to Wikipedia Brotherhood "generally positive reviews."

 

Outside of that, one thing to remember is that the two games are being marketed at two different demographics, "next" vs "old" gen. They aren't competing, presumably, at least they aren't meant to.

 

I have a 360 and a One. In my case they would be, if I were buying either game(I'm not buying either but a friend is getting me Unity).

 

Most that are current gen still have their old gen systems. They'll have to make a choice if they're only getting one or the other.



#121
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I have a 360 and a One. In my case they would be, if I were buying either game(I'm not buying either but a friend is getting me Unity).

 

Most that are current gen still have their old gen systems. They'll have to make a choice if they're only getting one or the other.

 

Or if they're getting both, which (while not likely) is surely an option for anyone who has the resources for a current-gen console.

 

However, there are still what--millions?--on the old consoles, and they quite literally would not have an Assassins Creed game coming out without this game, so they would be simply-outta-luck. I think that's what this game is made for.



#122
LPPrince

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Or if they're getting both, which (while not likely) is surely an option for anyone who has the resources for a current-gen console.

 

However, there are still what--millions?--on the old consoles, and they quite literally would not have an Assassins Creed game coming out without this game, so they would be simply-outta-luck. I think that's what this game is made for.

 

Yeah. They gotta target the biggest market. That means last-gen consoles. Current gen is a baby gen.



#123
GenericEnemy

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i spy Achilles at 0:37:  :o


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#124
SlottsMachine

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I think I have officially checked out on the Assassin's Creed games. I've enjoyed them all more or less (other than Revelations which sucked ass), I just could not find any motivation to play AC4. 



#125
AresKeith

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So apparently Haytham is in this game.

Wasn't terribly interested before, but it might be worth a look now. Conflicted. :S


Adewale is to appear also :(