Ugh, way to late so I'll make this short.
I always play games like ME2 like a goody-2shoes. So in ME2 I ended up with no losses to the crew of the Normandy. Is it me, but I got the distinct impression that Bioware said when they made ME3 that this time some people really had to die no matter what. Sort of to make up for saving everyone in ME2?
Ugh, way to late so I'll make this short.
I always play games like ME2 like a goody-2shoes. So in ME2 I ended up with no losses to the crew of the Normandy. Is it me, but I got the distinct impression that Bioware said when they made ME3 that this time some people really had to die no matter what. Sort of to make up for saving everyone in ME2?
Well, Tarquin, Mordin(or Padok), Illusive Man, Anderson, and other NPCs died. Can't remember everyone.
EDIT: Exclude Mordin(or Padok)
It all depends on your playthrough(s)
With squadmates,, I only had two die. Kaidan on Virmire and edi when I picked destroy for one playthrough.
For non-squadmates, Anderson, TIM, Udina
They did, and looking back, the death variable in ME2 was something that ended up biting ME3 in the ass, one of the few things I consider to be a true flaw of ME2.
ME2 should have had mandatory character deaths for the SM: There are two ways I think this could have worked.
The more straightforward way would have been to just kill certain characters and have a certain outcome for the final mission in ME2. At least 3 to 6 of the characters would have a plot scripted death, plus members of the crew of the Normandy. That way, you don't overbook for the surviving characters in ME3, and you have them in assured positions of survival. IMO, these characters would be Thane, Samara, Zaeed, Kasumi, Jacob, and Grunt.
The second option for the SM is basically the same, with the difference being in 3 to 4 characters having a scripted death, and 1 choice with a variable squadmate death (as in you have the option to put 3 squadmates into one position, and whichever you pick dies.) Keep the crew deaths as variable depending on choices in ME2, like it already is.
And come ME3, you have the SM mechanic reinstalled for the endgame.
Ugh, way to late so I'll make this short.
I always play games like ME2 like a goody-2shoes. So in ME2 I ended up with no losses to the crew of the Normandy. Is it me, but I got the distinct impression that Bioware said when they made ME3 that this time some people really had to die no matter what. Sort of to make up for saving everyone in ME2?
Some of their deaths are meaningful, they are actually sacrifices for the greater good.
I recently did my first playthrough of ME2 where people died on the suicide mission. I mean, I've downloaded saves for importing into ME3, with different squadmates dying, like Mordin, or Legion, or Jack, just to see the different content of ME3... but I'd never actually played through the mission where not everyone got out alive.
I gotta say it really adds to the feel of the desperation of the mission. If some deaths had been mandatory, I wouldn't have minded, story-wise. Having said that, it's also cool to get everyone out alive. I don't mind the way it turned out either.
Some mutually exclusive deaths would probably have spiced up the suicide mission for sure.
The problem I have with pitching ideas on how to make the Suicide Mission better is that I think about how much the story of ME2 would need to be changed first.
Morinth will die if you selected her over Samara in ME2.
Morinth will die if you selected her over Samara in ME2.
Some mutually exclusive deaths would probably have spiced up the suicide mission for sure.
Do it too much and it loses impact. Less is more, when it comes to things like that.
The problem I have with pitching ideas on how to make the Suicide Mission better is that I think about how much the story of ME2 would need to be changed first.
It could be argued that that's the case anyway to be honest.
The problem I have with pitching ideas on how to make the Suicide Mission better is that I think about how much the story of ME2 would need to be changed first.
Not necessarily. Just have several character have scripted deaths and be done with it. And throw in a variable death, where 2 squadmates have an interchangeable position ala the Virmire decision.
Renegade Reinterpretations. Guaranteed losses, but making smart choices can minimize casualities ex: the pipe your tech specialist is travelling through is welded shut on the far end, so your tech is guaranteed to die, but if you chose a good tech they'll get the door open in time to prevent you from losing a second squadmate to the collectors while holding your ground outside the door.Not necessarily. Just have several character have scripted deaths and be done with it. And throw in a variable death, where 2 squadmates have an interchangeable position ala the Virmire decision.
Not necessarily. Just have several character have scripted deaths and be done with it. And throw in a variable death, where 2 squadmates have an interchangeable position ala the Virmire decision.
What I meant by my statement, whenever I think about the squadmate structure of the SM I always think of the SM as a whole (I can't divorce the two). When I do that I think about how shoddy the whole thing is, which makes me think about the entirety of ME2.
When I'm playing the thing I'm all smiles but thinking about it later and reflecting on the whole thing makes me some mix of angry and confused.
But possible fixes; some good, some bad... okay, probably mostly bad. One thing would be to make certain characters invincible (depending on their relevance to any future plot) but preferably do it a somewhat clever way. If Legion is killed, for example, he downloads himself into onto a flash drive or something similar as Geth do, so his platform may be dead but he can still show up in ME3 in some form. Another would be to pair characters up for their ME3 cameos. The natural one would be Miranda and Jacob both appearing in the same mission. There would be the slight variance in the dialogue depending if one or both of them are alive, if they are both dead the mission simply doesn't appear and no one has to spend resources making it.
Renegade Reinterpretations. Guaranteed losses, but making smart choices can minimize casualities ex: the pipe your tech specialist is travelling through is welded shut on the far end, so your tech is guaranteed to die, but if you chose a good tech they'll get the door open in time to prevent you from losing a second squadmate to the collectors while holding your ground outside the door.
Still, too much chance to have too much variation. I honestly think that one VS like decision with 3 to 5 scripted deaths of certain characters would work best. Even then, seeing what happens to the VS in ME3, that might not be such a great idea, as the survivor is guaranteed to have a screwed story. I think 4 or 5 scripted deaths and one VS choice would be best. That way, you lose half the squad, and maintain the appearance of a 'Suicide Mission'.
The variables could be on whether the crew of the Normandy lives or dies. Granted, I think they got seriously shafted in ME3 aside from Hacksaw, so I can see the downside to this. I suppose having forced deaths for the crew would work better.
Do it too much and it loses impact. Less is more, when it comes to things like that.
I agree, which is why I tried to make sure everyone came out alive. I avoided using the word "better", because I'm not really sure if it would be. But then, I very much prefer Shepard's dialogue to Thane on Illium: "They tell me it's a suicide mission. I intend to prove them wrong." And she does!
Morinth will die if you selected her over Samara in ME2.
I've got a feeling it works the same way with Ashley and Kaidan
I agree, which is why I tried to make sure everyone came out alive. I avoided using the word "better", because I'm not really sure if it would be. But then, I very much prefer Shepard's dialogue to Thane on Illium: "They tell me it's a suicide mission. I intend to prove them wrong." And she does!
I think having a scenario where everyone comes out alive is appropriate for the story of ME2 (although maybe it should be a bit harder to get to). Yes, it's a darker story but quite a large part of it is about how special and badass Shepard is, so having an ending where he exceeds all expectations is alright with me.
Plus, it's nice to have the badass crew of the state of the badass art ship give their badass nods to the ultimate badass, badassfully.
Plus, it's nice to have the badass crew of the state of the badass art ship give their badass nods to the ultimate badass, badassfully.
That's one of my favorite Mass Effect moments.
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