2053 réponses à ce sujet

[Battlebloodmage]

Skyrim? There is about as many set dialogue lines for the card-board protagonist in that game as there is for any other Silent Protagonist. I suppose I can agree with the fact that you can't play an elf in Persona. That's certainly a step above the rest, if you can call it that.

Skyrim doesn't have a lot of structure in its narrative, at the expense of the heavy sandboxness, which is why I found it boring very quickly.

When talking about Skyrim, I was talking more about the characters, you set your own world, you can customize your characters, you can customize your race, you choose the direction for the story of the game. I was just talking about freedom of customization, not about how the game itself. Although I prefer games like Dragon Age Orgins since it has a concrete narrative, you can customize how your origins, power, race, and gender, as well as look. You can determine how the game play out and whether you even survive. That is why I don't like DA2, it's more of a Persona 4 type of game where you have a set background, a set narrative, but you can choose your gender, that's a plus, you can influence some of the decisions with the choices, but overall, it's not very expansive. 

[TheChris92]

Don't mind not having it for a set protagonist, but when they pretend the protagonist represent you and your perspective then at least provide the choice to customize them like gender. Persona protagonist is basically just Link version of Yu. Someone with a set background and everything but act as a silent protagonist to make it seem like he's actually a player's avatar. I'd say that Yu is not a self-insert character as much as people like to think.

Might as well return to this comment again -- The silent protagonists of Persona aren't any more pre-determined than any other silent protagonist. This whole idea of yours that they are "pretending" that he represents you is an illusion. It's the same with teh Warden in Origins, you're not really creating your own character, you are however colouring the frames the developers have given you. It's to grant you the illusion, that you are the master who weaves the story, and one also has to remember that JRPGs don't approach the concepts of role-playing in similar manner. Arguably, the P3 protagonist has more room to play with given his background isn't really as set as Yu's background. He doesn't know anybody in the city he arrives in unlike Narukami.

They shouldn't implement a gender option if it is at the expense of story representation. That was my beef with Persona 3 Portable, but that's also partially because it was on the PSP. I'd like to play as a female protagonist again but not at the expense of something else. It's not something I need in the Persona games like I need in western RPGs.

[TheChris92]

When talking about Skyrim, I was talking more about the characters, you set your own world, you can customize your characters, you can customize your race, you choose the direction for the story of the game. I was just talking about freedom of customization, not about how the game itself. Although I prefer games like Dragon Age Orgins since it has a concrete narrative, you can customize how your origins, power, race, and gender, as well as look. You can determine how the game play out and whether you even survive. That is why I don't like DA2, it's more of a Persona 4 type of game where you have a set background, a set narrative, but you can choose your gender, that's a plus, you can influence some of the decisions with the choices, but overall, it's not very expansive.

You don't customize your Origins at all -- You pick a background, you get the background and then it's gone and nothing really changes whatsoever. These choices are an illusion, and they don't really overall change anything on the larger scale in Origins. What you are asking for is something that's impossible -- A game's narrative can never account for the wishes of thousands of different players, but it can grant illusions that makes it feel like you're affecting the world around you.
Also comparing DA2 to Persona 4? Get the **** out of here. Nevermind the fact that you actually have more agency in Persona 4 than the entire DA2, and you actually more various endings than Origins and DA2 combined. If we are gonna nitpick, then let's do it right.

Choices and decisions are mechanics of which you'll find in western RPGs and not in JRPGs so it's not really anyting new either way. I'd prefer a better story with a bit of agency, over a loose mess like Skyrim or BioWare games, that preaches about choice and consequence but ultimately has bugger all.

So, anyway, can we get back to JRPGs in general?

[Battlebloodmage]

I was gonna type like a long post again, but I honest don't want to get into the same situation as the other day. I doubt we'll change each other's mind, so I'll just say it's different opinions at this point. 

[Battlebloodmage]

I consider them to be a Jrpg in a very western fantasy style.

So JRPG and WRPG are depending on the country who make it or is it a style that developed by either Japan or Western? I find South Park to be a very JRPG game in term of gameplay, but it was made by Western while games like Dragon's Dogma feels a lot like a Western game but made by Japanese developers. 

[TheChris92]

So JRPG and WRPG are depending on the country who make it or is it a style that developed by either Japan or Western? I find South Park to be a very JRPG game in term of gameplay, but it was made by Western while games like Dragon's Dogma feels a lot like a Western game but made by Japanese developers.

It's a JRPG because of the artstyle and how the plot is set up -- It has Dragons and such, but as for how story is conveyed, the twists, and the presence of sentient godly beings, serving as harbingers of chaos and harmony, it all points toward a more JRPG-ish experience. Especially the combat as well.

[Liamv2]

Honestly I consider a JRPG to be a RPG made in japan and a WRPG to be a RPG made in the West. You could go into massive arguments about what exactly makes something a JRPG/WRPG but those arguments could go on for days.

[TheChris92]

I somewhat agree with you, but I think there are certain differences that can distinquish them. Otherwise, you wouldn't really have made the previous comment as you did.

[Liamv2]

There are differences they are just difficult to pin down. At least for me.

[AventuroLegendary]

Technically, a linear story and anime-ish art aren't really JRPG traits as they are typical JRPG traits.

 

To me, the only thing distinguishing the two RPG subgenres is the country of origin.

[TheChris92]

Stat attribution is basically non-existent in JRPGs, as are choice, consequence and customization is limited.
It's safer to say that JRPGs have tigher focus on narrative and atmosphere, while western RPGs are more about freedom and customization and the plot it usually very lose. You can argue that some JRPGs do things different, obviously, but at the same time you can argue that some shooters have RPG elements in 'em but that doesn't really make them any less of a shooter.
The genre name exist to categorize them like this and I'd say there are enough differences to warrant it. There's nothing wrong with it though -- Each genre have their pros and cons.

So there.

[Seraphim24]

The JRPG vs. WRPG thing... ah yes. 

 

The dictionary definition is that JRPGs are basically from Japan, have a very linear flow, may be more cutscene heavy and akin to anime. Whereas WRPGs are from the west, have a non-linear form of progression and world building, do not make use of many cutscenes and are more akin to dungeons & dragons or rogulikes or conceptual role playing experiences. 

 

Of course, that distinction has often collapsed or eroded, as JRPGs often strive to be more active and playable, whereas WRPGs put more and more quests and ideas and characters into their games.

 

The most successful games, in fact, have a number of elements of both, like the Souls series which exploded. 

[Seraphim24]

Personally, I'd just call any game that has a compelling enough atmosphere or characters and interesting enough gameplay a JRPG and be done with it. That would make Skyrim and WoW JRPGs, but I don't think my definition is going to catch on anytime soon. JRPGs simply being RPGs from Japan and so on works just as well. There are many instances where people agree easily also like I don't think anyone would dispute that the Tales series is composed of JRPGs for instance.

[Dr.Fumbles]

The definition is in flux between the two. There are a number of debates about it all over the place about which is which. The general excepted definition though is that in JRPGS you are a character in the story while in WRPGs you make your own story. Also, the country of origin doesn't make a difference since Dark Souls is considered a  WRPG.

[EarthboundNess]

I managed to keep up with my BSN recommendations and checked out the Neptunia anime. Ended up binging through it. Freakin' great stuff.

 

So with a remake of the original game on the way the same month I get a Vita... I'd say my timing's immaculate. 

 

The Vita's going to be a goldmine of new JRPG's for me.

[Liamv2]

Mwahahaha YES YES JOIN THE DARK SIDE!

[EarthboundNess]

Dark side? Nah, I don't think it was that ba...

 

Actually, Plutia was a thing, forget I said anything.

 

Veeery interested to see how the games work out given the events of the show.

 

 

[Liamv2]

Well the show isn't connected to the games. They do share some plot points though. Rebirth 1 is an entirely different thing though.

[EarthboundNess]

I had a feeling that might be the case, given how some of the characters end up despite supposedly being in the games. I guess that's namely why its interesting. If they're only loosely intertwined, they can be as different as they like.

 

I'll avoid looking up anything about it until it comes out methinks, and keep it a surprise.

[Liamv2]

Good idea. Blanc is best CPU btw. Uni is best candidate though.

[Gravisanimi]

Dark side? Nah, I don't think it was that ba...
 
Actually, Plutia was a thing, forget I said anything.
 
Veeery interested to see how the games work out given the events of the show.

Plutia is a perfect little angel, I don't know what you are talking about.

[Mr.House]

I don't think anime scenes are that long, and is it really that expensive to provide a small variations in certain scenes. Even if it's that expensive, there are ways around it like the anime happens from the perspective of the protagonist like with Robin. Atlus ignoring Minako is their fault, not the fans. Of course they can choose to canonize a gender, but the fans have the right to complain. It's no different from the complain when they give Yu a canon personality and backstory. This is one of the things I don't like about JRPG. Whenever there are actually gender selection in a game, the male one is automatically the canon one. 

False. The female protag of SMT: If is canon and was given an official name, the male was unnamed and forgotten.

 

Also his backstory? The only thing canon about Yu's backstory is he lived in a big city and his parents work are the reason he's in Inaba, that's it. That's no diuffrent then human noble being a Cousland and being the youngest son ect.

 

Heck even the game gives you freedom on how he met Philemon.

[Liamv2]

Riiiight.

[EarthboundNess]

Good idea. Blanc is best CPU btw. Uni is best candidate though.

 

< See avatar

 

Plutia is best...

 

...

 

...Whatever it is she is, she's the best one.