23 réponses à ce sujet

[Lulupab]

Antiva is a fictionalized version of a medieval Italian city-state like Venice Or Florence. So with that in mind if you have information about old Italian states you can connect many dots about Antiva and therefore this makes Josephine an interesting character. Italian city states were major power brokers and the pope or superpowers like Ottomans all feared them. They also had assassins, controlled the Mediterranean and were very wealthy states.

 

Officially, the line of kings in Antiva has remained unbroken for two and a half thousand years, but the monarchy is very weak and has virtually no army. In reality, Antiva is a plutocracy: the true power conferred strictly by wealth lies in the hands of a dozen merchant princes. They are not princes in the literal sense, but heads of banks, trading companies, and vineyards, each with a personal army, and each locked in a constant struggle against all the others. They possess sufficient capital to resolve any external diplomatic quandaries with a well-aimed purse or threat of withdrawn trade.

 

Despite the lack of a strong military tradition, there is another reason why Antiva has rarely feared invasion: the infamous House of Crows, the most efficient, most feared, and most expensive guild of assassins in Thedas. Their fame is such that Antiva has no need of a standing army. No leader is willing to order an attack on her borders or to lead the troops due to fear of assassination. Even the Qunari leave the nation alone but this is not the only reason they leave them alone. An association of Antivan pirates called the Felicisima Armada is the only fleet on Thedas that defeated a Qunari fleet and claimed the waking see for Antiva.

 

In the end Antiva is an Adnrastian nation because for the moment it benefits them, expect them to backstab anyone and change sides if it benefits them more. After all their ancestors were pirates who decided to settle in that land and practically its a pirate country and most of things in the country is founded by piracy.

 

Personally I'm exited to hear more about Antiva, are we going to visit? Discuss.

[AresKeith]

Personally I'm exited to hear more about Antiva, are we going to visit? Discuss.

 

No, we're mainly staying in Ferelden and Orlais

[Milan92]

No, we aren't gonna visit Antiva in DA:I.

[Lulupab]

That's a shame. Regardless I want to know what'll happen in Antiva in recent events. Didn't we had some pirate artworks? They could also be Rivain pirates but as long as its a pirate I'm happy 

[Lukas Trevelyan]

Josephine, one of the three advisers, is Antivan. So don't worry I'm pretty sure we're gonna learn more about Antiva in DA:I and perhaps encounter the crows again.

[Icy Magebane]

Antiva is on the other side of the continent, so I doubt they'll have much involvement in the story.  Being able to form an alliance with the Crows and recruit some assassins would a nice alternative to diplomacy.  Maybe Leliana has the hook-up.

[Master Warder Z_]

Antiva is on the other side of the continent, so I doubt they'll have much involvement in the story.  Being able to form an alliance with the Crows and recruit some assassins would a nice alternative to diplomacy.  Maybe Leliana has the hook-up.

 

Zevran is leading a rebellion against them if he is alive, Perhaps that would be the "hookup" I mean, It seems the assassins are actually rallying behind him somewhat, I wouldn't be surprised if a few came to Orlais to aid against the Breach.

 

You know...If Zevran is appeased anyway.

[CrimsonN7]

No, we're mainly staying in Ferelden and Orlais

 

Really looking forward to visiting Orlais, love dem Orlesians.

 

 

 

[MisterJB]

According to Zevran, most Antivans are quite devoted.

 

• "Zevran: So are you a very religious man, Alistair? I am curious. I believe I heard you say you were raised in an abbey?
• Alistair: I was raised in a castle. I was schooled in the abbey. As far as being religious... I don't know. Not especially. What about you? Not in your line of work, I expect.
• Zevran: Why do you say that? I happen to be quite devoted, in my way, as most Antivans are."

Granted, he could have been joking but I have no idea from where you got this notion that Antivans are Andrastean only for convenience.

[Lulupab]

According to Zevran, most Antivans are quite devoted.

 

• "Zevran: So are you a very religious man, Alistair? I am curious. I believe I heard you say you were raised in an abbey?
• Alistair: I was raised in a castle. I was schooled in the abbey. As far as being religious... I don't know. Not especially. What about you? Not in your line of work, I expect.
• Zevran: Why do you say that? I happen to be quite devoted, in my way, as most Antivans are."

Granted, he could have been joking but I have no idea from where you got this notion that Antivans are Andrastean only for convenience.

 

Several reasons, the most important one is Antivans are everything they are only for convenience. For example it does have Templars and Mages and they helped in exalted march against the Qunari however the fleet was bought to help the Chantry in that war because Antiva has no army and the people are not obligated to help the chantry so they don't unless there is profit in it. Antiva has no "real" government like Orlais or other nations, the king cannot decide for its people and there is no one who decides everything for the country. Its confirmed that the country is a plutocracy, so that means people act on their own and the wealthy have all the power regardless of everything and nobility is irrelevant, wealthy people are called "prince" and "princess".

 

While Antiva has been "neutral" in all wars in history of Thedas, if they aided anyone in any war it was because they paid more not because they liked them. Also this means the Antivan government didn't help them and only mercenaries not associated with the government helped so the Antivan government is safe from accusations. From a country like this, I expect nothing else but to be Andrastian for profit and convenience. For heaven's sake their economy is ran on piracy and most of the people are either assassins, pirates, brothel owners, power brokers etc...

[Lucy Glitter]

I hope we meet some Antivan prince who is like 50th in line to the throne or something. I loved Zev's assassination stories.

 

Prince Azran. That was it. Great story.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

For heaven's sake their economy is ran on piracy and most of the people are either assassins, pirates, brothel owners, power brokers etc...

Um, this is inaccurate. From the wiki:

 

Trade and exports 

Antiva, as a coastal country with bustling ports, facilitates a great deal of trade, both through piracy and legitimate business. Some of this trade may be under the aegis of the Antivan Crows and their confederates.^[10] The exports of Antiva are numerous and varied. Antiva is renowned for its admittedly unparalleled wines, as well as its coffee.^[11] It is also known for its rubies^[12] and diamonds.^[13] Antivan leatherworking is also particularly exquisite, and its crafters are the envy of the known world.^[14] In addition to leather Antiva produces fine weaving^[15] and silk of great renown.^[16] Antivan crafters also excel at the production of porcelain of a quality so fine light shines through,^[17] as well as woodwork.^[18] The country enjoys healthy trade with many nations, including the empire of Orlais.^[19]

[Lulupab]

Um, this is inaccurate. From the wiki:

 

Trade and exports 

Antiva, as a coastal country with bustling ports, facilitates a great deal of trade, both through piracy and legitimate business. Some of this trade may be under the aegis of the Antivan Crows and their confederates.^[10] The exports of Antiva are numerous and varied. Antiva is renowned for its admittedly unparalleled wines, as well as its coffee.^[11] It is also known for its rubies^[12] and diamonds.^[13] Antivan leatherworking is also particularly exquisite, and its crafters are the envy of the known world.^[14] In addition to leather Antiva produces fine weaving^[15] and silk of great renown.^[16] Antivan crafters also excel at the production of porcelain of a quality so fine light shines through,^[17] as well as woodwork.^[18] The country enjoys healthy trade with many nations, including the empire of Orlais.^[19]

 

I don't see how that makes the statement inaccurate. Once the goods come with piracy there is nothing stopping you to have a "healthy trade" with other nations. That's the whole point of piracy, to sell the goods after you get them.

 

You have to have the best pirate fleet in the world if it beat a Qunari fleet.

[Gervaise]

It is a pity we won't actually visit Antiva, particularly Antiva City, because I've been intrigued by it ever since my conversations with Zevran.   It sounds exotic and colourful (and exciting).   However, I suppose the next best thing is having an advisor from Antiva and it makes a change that she was not automatically the one in charge of espionage, because of the Crows.   Nevertheless, I wouldn't be surprise to find she had strong links with them and that if we choose we can gain some very useful allies.

 

I'm very much hoping she can update us on Zevran's progress.   It has already been confirmed that we won't be seeing him.   Some people have assumed that it is because there was a possibility of killing him in previous games.    I think it is more likely that he has now completed his take over of the organisation that was contained in the epilogue to DAO and he seemed in the process of in DA2, gradually taking out their current leadership one by one.   So naturally he will be back in the base in Antiva City running things.  Since I liked Zevran, and particularly his romance, I will enjoy it if he can become one of our allies together with his Crow network.

 

Josephine should be able to give us more detail on Antivan culture, which is good.   May be she can also arrange the import of Antivan goods to our base, particularly the silk.    I'm hopeful we are going to be able to choose some decent clothes for these social events we are meant to be attending or even just wandering around the Skyhold, and not simply be saddled with the one design for all that we had in DA2.    It could be that are choice will depend on what goods we have in stock.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I don't see how that makes the statement inaccurate. Once the goods come with piracy there is nothing stopping you to have a "healthy trade" with other nations. That's the whole point of piracy, to sell the goods after you get them.

 

You have to have the best pirate fleet in the world if it beat a Qunari fleet.

I was referring to you saying it is run on piracy, which if it is less than 51% of income then it is not, and most people doing what you listed. 

 

To use Mass Effect as an example, it being like how you described would be like it being Omega where in truth it is more like Illium: still a large black market but the vast majority is legitimate business. 

[javeart]

I was referring to you saying it is run on piracy, which if it is less than 51% of income then it is not, and most people doing what you listed. 

 

To use Mass Effect as an example, it being like how you described would be like it being Omega where in truth it is more like Illium: still a large black market but the vast majority is legitimate business. 

 

I see it this way too

[Mistic]

Thankfully,. Josephine will tell us more things about Antiva. It looks like a fascinating country.

 

If some day Bioware attempts to do the Dragon Age equivalent of GTA or Assassin's Creed, I think it should be in Antiva. Hell, if they wanted so much to "tell the story of a city" in DA2, they should have chosen Antiva, the city of adventure. Kirkwall was disappointing in that regard.

 

While Antiva has been "neutral" in all wars in history of Thedas, if they aided anyone in any war it was because they paid more not because they liked them. Also this means the Antivan government didn't help them and only mercenaries not associated with the government helped so the Antivan government is safe from accusations. From a country like this, I expect nothing else but to be Andrastian for profit and convenience. For heaven's sake their economy is ran on piracy and most of the people are either assassins, pirates, brothel owners, power brokers etc...

 

That's simply not true. Apart from the Qunari Wars that you mentioned before, and the Blights, Antiva also took part in the wars against Fyruss of Starkhaven. Also, mercenaries are still armies, even if they just fight for the money.

 

What WoT says about Antiva and their lack of military culture is that they lack a standing army. In real life, that was very typical of Italian city states, who tended to use their money to hire mercenary armies. From that came the famous figure of the condottieri. Machiavelli distrusted them and advised the Florentian Republic to create a national militia, but they were fundamental in the Italian wars.

 

We have to understand that the idea of having national, permanent and professional armies was uncommon until the Napoleonic Wars. Levies and mercenary armies were the most common occurence. The same happens in Thedas. The only standing professional forces we know so far are the Orlesian Chevaliers, the Grey Wardens and the Templars.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

How can the line of Antivan Kings be unbroken for two and a half thousand years when that was before even the Imperium was founded?

 

I'm curious what accent Josephine is going to have. Most have sounded spanish but a few were english. And given how many times accents have been retconed I almost wonder if it could be something random.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

How can the line of Antivan Kings be unbroken for two and a half thousand years when that was before even the Imperium was founded?

 

I'm curious what accent Josephine is going to have. Most have sounded spanish but a few were english. And given how many times accents have been retconed I almost wonder if it could be something random.

Her VA Allegra Clark confirmed that Josephine has an Italian accent. 

[Dayze]

According to Zevran, most Antivans are quite devoted.

 

• "Zevran: So are you a very religious man, Alistair? I am curious. I believe I heard you say you were raised in an abbey?
• Alistair: I was raised in a castle. I was schooled in the abbey. As far as being religious... I don't know. Not especially. What about you? Not in your line of work, I expect.
• Zevran: Why do you say that? I happen to be quite devoted, in my way, as most Antivans are."

Granted, he could have been joking but I have no idea from where you got this notion that Antivans are Andrastean only for convenience.

Probably joking; he has no problem if you desecrate Andrastes's Ashes.

[Das Tentakel]

Antiva is a fictionalized version of a medieval Italian city-state like Venice Or Florence. So with that in mind if you have information about old Italian states you can connect many dots about Antiva …

I wouldn’t count on that. BioWare, at least when it comes to DA, tends not to make use of the ‘historical inspirations’ except for some pretty superficial stuff or stereotypes, then mix it up with other things (Spanish accents and D&D’ish assassin guilds, for instance) and their own imagination. The result is nothing like the ‘original inspiration’.
This is precisely why you can not ‘connect the dots’.
 

How can the line of Antivan Kings be unbroken for two and a half thousand years when that was before even the Imperium was founded?

Theoretically, Antiva could have existed as an independent city-state on the eastern flank of the Imperium, or maybe as a more or less autonomous vassal state.

2,500 years is a very long time, but DA has a tendency to drop these long timespans – the Landsmeet in Ferelden, for instance, has been gathering annually for nearly 3,000 years according to the Codex.
It shares this with a lot of fantasy, in particular North American authors seem to have a fondness for lots of millennia*.
Of course, the downside of this is that this literally creates ‘millennia of empty history’; don’t even ask for lists of rulers and a short summary of their reign, or a broad description of trends in cultural, social and political change.

 

Sadly, I don't think we will ever see a song on the looooooooooooooooooooooooooooong line of Antivan kings...

 

*Tolkien has it too, but in his case the long timespans involved and the resulting s-l-o-w political changes are – somewhat - explained by the respective immortality or long lifespans of the peoples and their rulers.
 

[Wulfram]

Most of Dragon Age history generally has reasonably short time spans by Fantasy standards.  I mean, it's 1200 years back to the First Blight, 1000 years to Andraste,  400 years since Calenhad united Fereldan, 300 years since the Qunari turned up.

 

I'd assume the 3000 years of Landsmeets is Sister Petrine being a bit credulous about some myth making, and the Antivan monarchy's antiquity is likely to be similar.

[Das Tentakel]

Most of Dragon Age history generally has reasonably short time spans by Fantasy standards.  I mean, it's 1200 years back to the First Blight, 1000 years to Andraste,  400 years since Calenhad united Fereldan, 300 years since the Qunari turned up.

 

I'd assume the 3000 years of Landsmeets is Sister Petrine being a bit credulous about some myth making, and the Antivan monarchy's antiquity is likely to be similar.

 

Maybe, maybe not. They're no more than empty figures right now either way.

Even the last 1200 years of 'history' are pretty fuzzy, beyond some general outlines and a few scattered events and personalities. Although you can partly blame the 'newness' of the setting I suppose.