But notice that dreamers are very rare and elves had many of them so either:
Where did you get that belief? Every scrap of lore on them indicates they are RARE.
You state as such yourself, and then contradict it a few words later and claim they had many, MANY over a course of a dozen centuries maybe.
Many during their struggle against the Imperium? It's supposition at best.
Just throwing this in there; earlier in this thread its stated the the Chantry made the "Litany of Adralla"....that would be incorrect in actuality Adralla was a "Tevinter" Mage who had to flee her home because the blood mages there were threatened by her efforts and kept making attempts on her life so she came to Ferelden and the Chantry.
Where did you get that belief? Every scrap of lore on them indicates they are RARE.
You state as such yourself, and then contradict it a few words later and claim they had many, MANY over a course of a dozen centuries maybe.
Many during their struggle against the Imperium? It's supposition at best.
Well they were still rare in Elven kingdom but in comparison to humans they were more because they were simply the ruling class and after the fall of Elvhenan its said that the lowest class elves still angry for their oppression started hunting hundreds of Dreamers.
So we can have another conclusion added to the list
- Elves were immortal so although Dreamers are rare, since they didn't die their numbers add up as centuries passed.
- All Elves were mages so even if the chance is very low like one in ten thousand, because all elves were mages they had more dreamers by default because they simply had more mages
- Basically Elves had higher chance of being Dreamers
I've always felt that elven immortality/magical ability was a product of the fade being fundamentally different than it is in 'modern' times. The fade is both a mutable realm given form by the thoughts of sentient beings and the source of magic. If the ancient Arlathan elves saw the fade as a safe realm they could use to sustain and empower themselves then that's what it would have been. Thus when humans came along they unwittingly destroyed the foundation of elven civilization. Their different perspective disrupted the stable fade environment upon which the elves had come to depend on.
I found the similarities between the ancient elves and the old tevinter empire to be very interesting indeed. Even more so that Felassan seemed to imply they enslaved their own kin.
Its actually a confirmed fact that Tevinter destroyed Arlathan and Elvhenan.
Although its revealed in Masked Empire that Ancient elves were not so much different than Tevinter and had ruthless class system that tormented the lowest class and the empire was ruled by dreamers who were much like Magisters of Tevinter.
Seems alot of the races and empires practiced slavery at some point or another in the history.
It seems that those times are the real world equivalent of antiquity period.
True.It seems that those times are the real world equivalent of antiquity period.
Part of me truly wonders about elven immortality. They might have been more long-lived than the humans, but part of me thinks they're embellishing that part, and the immortality came from something like blood magic.
How DARE you filthy shemlen suggest that our totally backwater, completely isolated, transient society would even think about embellishing tales of our glorious past!
When we get done figuring out how this all power mystical elven hand brush from ancient Arlathan works... you shemlen will truly see the might of elven hair care!
No, She compared it to their own Phylacteries.
Part of me truly wonders about elven immortality. They might have been more long-lived than the humans, but part of me thinks they're embellishing that part, and the immortality came from something like blood magic.
You raise a valid point but its confirmed that Tevinter mages were the first to use blood magic therefore elves perhaps had a forbiddenmagic of their own that made them immortal but whatever it was, it was not blood magic
How DARE you filthy shemlen suggest that our totally backwater, completely isolated, transient society would even think about embellishing tales of our glorious past!
When we get done figuring out how this all power mystical elven hand brush from ancient Arlathan works... you shemlen will truly see the might of elven hair care!
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*
The Spirit Claims that, but the Soul trapped within the essence gem tells another tale, Also the Grand Oak could have been talking about the far later struggle between the Imperium and the elves, not whatever force of destruction united the elves and humans together.
It isn't clear, but it is definitely an interesting bit of history.
This. The elves and humans of the Brecilian Forest were scared so shitless of something that they banded together to fight it. This is a time when Arcane Warriors were common so whatever this unnatural evil was it must have been very bad.
You raise a valid point but its confirmed that Tevinter mages were the first to use blood magic therefore elves perhaps had a forbiddenmagic of their own that made them immortal but whatever it was, it was not blood magic
We know from Felessan and Imshael that the Elvhenan was one empire. We also know from World of Thedas and other codex entries that the elves responded to humans' arrival by isolating themselves from them, not attacking them. They probably could have done a lot of damage while humanity was still primitive.
WoT does have mention of early battles between elves and Nerominians, but apparently they weren't significant enough to even be included on the timeline.
You'd think that 700 years would be enough time to establish "This isn't working".
They aren't extinct yet. Success!
Thinking about elves and immortality; you know those were wood/spider/dragon looking things that the elves have guarding their various territories?
Maybe it was some variation on however that worked?
I mean; they are still around and apparently not aging, basically a wood version of Shale?
You raise a valid point but its confirmed that Tevinter mages were the first to use blood magic therefore elves perhaps had a forbiddenmagic of their own that made them immortal but whatever it was, it was not blood magic
That just raises more questions, namely, how did the elves learn blood magic? Since it seems they likely used it in the latter days of their war (see e.g. what Merrill says about how Audacity might have been trapped by either side).
My theory has always been that the elves really were immortal, or at least lived for a loooong time. But they were slow. Really slow. Like, "I'm gonna go take a quick nap, see you in three years" -slow.
And the humans weren't.
And then maybe some elf noble went, "Hey these guys talk way too fast, I can barely understand them." And made a spell to speed himself up, and the spell got really popular until elves started dying early. And while everyone was panicking about that and trying to fix it, the Tevinter attacked and enslaved everyone.
Cue thousands of years later and no one remembers the spell, only that they started aging real quick when they started interacting more with the humans.
Or maybe the quickening was a real disease and the elves noticed in time and stayed away from the humans. But then the Tevinter came, and they were just so fast the elves just got run over... And so everyone got the quickening disease because they were forced to hang around humans all the time.
Like, I always figured they were the stereotypical high elves. Slow, peaceful, friends with animals, big wooden house-castles in the forest. And then humans came and were human. But the elves didn't have some mystical defence, and there weren't any orks or goblins for the ancient elves to practice fighting on.
My theory has always been that the elves really were immortal, or at least lived for a loooong time. But they were slow. Really slow. Like, "I'm gonna go take a quick nap, see you in three years" -slow.
That's pretty much what elven lore reads about the ancient elves. It addresses how they would spend years making introductions to one another or try to settle disputes that lasted millennia. Keeper Gisharel's entry about Arlathan reads, "They felt no need to rush when life was endless. They worshiped their gods for months at a time. Decisions came after decades of debate, and an introduction could last for years. From time to time, our ancestors would drift into centuries-long slumber, but this was not death, for we know they wandered the Fade in dreams."
Or maybe elves didn't know how to party until humans showed up. They'd just gather at around tables, having "civilized" boring discussions, and you know, being elves and living it slow. Then here comes the human and introduces the notion of partying, booze and getting totally wasted. And things just went crazy, elves unable to hold their liquor turned into sad alcoholics. So they kicked humans out, and went into rehab. But it was too late as they couldn't adapt anymore to their slow-motionish life.
Bah - the elves were all blood mages and learned immortality through blood magic. Their blood puppets (humans) rebelled... and they "lost their immortality".
Guest_Faerunner_*
People always look on their past, or the past of their culture, with rose-colored glasses.
Yes i do believe the elves Lied about there great city and there immortality if any thing i say they were savages that used blood mage to bind there souls to naiads (lady of the forest) come one its the perfect lie to tell a bunch of city elves to get them to believe in group of small dalish elf enclave for new breeding stock if they don't get new blood in there little irish travler community there gonna resort to inbreading
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