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[In Exile]

My theory has always been that the elves really were immortal, or at least lived for a loooong time. But they were slow. Really slow. Like, "I'm gonna go take a quick nap, see you in three years" -slow.

And the humans weren't.

And then maybe some elf noble went, "Hey these guys talk way too fast, I can barely understand them." And made a spell to speed himself up, and the spell got really popular until elves started dying early. And while everyone was panicking about that and trying to fix it, the Tevinter attacked and enslaved everyone.

 

The problem with all of that is how little sense it actually makes (not that this stopped Bioware). Nature doesn't move that slow - and it would be ridiculous for decisions to take the kind of timescale we are talking about here (e.g. people speak while an entire season passes and every crop dies). The elves would have to move at the same pace as the rest of living things - otherwise their society would collapse. Their food would root, their water would be poisoned, etc. 

 

This part of elven history - assuming it's true - could only work if there was a huge underclass of elven servants that moved at the regular pace. Basically, if the "immortal" elves were completely isolated from society and were wholly supported by an underclass of definetly-moving-at-normal-speed elves.

 

Otherwise the elves never moved at this pace.  

[Medhia_Nox]

@In Exile:  Well, to be fair - it also works if the elves just made a bunch of crap up.

 

What the elves are saying is.

 

"The Immortal elves who lived in idyllic conditions in a place of perfection and magic and who controlled the entire continent... were trashed and enslaved by some migrating humans who were far inferior to them." 

This IS fantasy... but that's not how colonization works.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

The thing is there were about two thousand years between the the Fall of Arlathan and the Quickening (supposedly). A lot could have changed in that time.

 

Anyway, when it comes to humans, they've always seemed to vastly outnumber elves, that seems to have been part of the secret to their success.

[LobselVith8]

The thing is there were about two thousand years between the the Fall of Arlathan and the Quickening (supposedly). A lot could have changed in that time.

 

Anyway, when it comes to humans, they've always seemed to vastly outnumber elves, that seems to have been part of the secret to their success.

 

There's also the introduction of diseases as well, mirroring what happened to the Native Americans.

[TK514]

There's also the introduction of diseases as well, mirroring what happened to the Native Americans.

 

One would think that in a magical wonderland where everyone was a mage, disease would be a non-issue.

 

I guess they didn't know about healing spells or potions.

[Medhia_Nox]

@LobselVith8:  While disease did decimate the Native Americans... it was technological superiority and completely alien lifestyles that wiped them out.

 

Presenting both magical and technological inferiority to a colonizing group... is backward to what happens in the real world, and I cannot fathom how that would even work.

 

Elf:  Well, those monkey things brought death and disease!  They're technologically and magically inferior... what should we do!?

Other Elf:  I know!  We should wait several hundred years while our empire is systematically ground into dust!

Elf:  Capital idea my good man.

 

"If" that slow elf idea is real...then their civilization would have collapsed.  Infrastructure would crumble before they could rebuild it... nature would move back in before they could stop it... and then following it up with:  "Yes, but magic."  Makes any conversation totally irrelevant on the topic.

[myahele]

There's truth to their history, but I'm sure many became either over exaggerated. Maybe even made up.

In the end the clans are far too seperated.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

One would think that in a magical wonderland where everyone was a mage, disease would be a non-issue.

 

I guess they didn't know about healing spells or potions.

 

Diseases and mages both exist in modern day Thedas, so I don't see why it would have to be different then.

[TK514]

Diseases and mages both exist in modern day Thedas, so I don't see why it would have to be different then.

 

Yes, but modern day Thedas doesn't make the claim that everyone was a mage.

[myahele]

I wonder what kind of relationship elves had with dragons? Did they leave them be? Did they use their blood for a boost of magic? Did they respect them?

Clearly there were alot more dragons around before they went extinct and got hunted by humans

[PsychoBlonde]

No offense to the Elf fans (as I count myself as one) but is it possible the Elves fabricated their plight to help cope with their forced captivity as slaves? 

 

What I mean is post slavery and probably during the later parts of it, is it not likely the Elves invented the stories their grand ancestry, mythical abilities, great cities, and of course superior magic?

 

I expect that it's more likely they *embellished* the past into some kind of Golden Utopia.  They didn't invent the mythical abilities, cities, etc. because we've seen that those actually existed.  Whether they were beauteous realms of perfect harmony and fellowship is up for debate.  In fact, given that when the Eluvian system collapsed the elven servant class actually MURDERED their sleeping elders, I'd say it seems pretty likely that there was no Paradise.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Yes, but modern day Thedas doesn't make the claim that everyone was a mage.

 

So? That doesn't mean that they would be able to cure all diseases any more than they would in the present.

[TK514]

So? That doesn't mean that they would be able to cure all diseases any more than they would in the present.

 

Really?  You're saying you see no difference between a world where mages are rare, segregated and vilified vs one where every single person is supposedly a mage when it comes to having access to healing magic?

 

That's your stance?

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Mages and healing magic can't cure all diseases. Malcon Hawke himself died from one.

[dragonflight288]

Mages and healing magic can't cure all diseases. Malcon Hawke himself died from one.

 

This is true. 

 

To answer the topic being discussed here, I think I should paraphrase the school of creation's own codex.

 

It says that the school of creation, and its healing magics, are rarely mastered by mages, and there are already few of them. 

 

The way I see it, if everyone was a mage, there would be a lot more elven healers, but if the numbers of masters of creation were applicable to modern thedas's practitioners, not everyone would have immediate access to healing magic. 

 

And if the elves were being decimated by disease, those healers they did have would be swamped and bogged down by patients, and if a doctor has so many patients that they can't get to all of them, many will die or succumb to the disease simply from the long wait in line. 

 

My opinion on the fall of Arlathan lies in what the Dalish tell us, simply because we don't have another source. The elves were used to taking things at a more languid pace when it came to diplomacy, discussion, or conflict, and the quick humans rushing through life and being so ambitious took the elves completely off guard, and when the invasion from Tevinter came, the elves simply couldn't muster their forces fast enough to put up a good defense because they weren't used to moving so fast. 

 

It doesn't matter if everyone was a mage if most don't train for combat because it's so far out of their everyday culture, and non-combatants are quick to panic and break ranks, especially if they don't have experience in warfare. 

 

I'm not sure if the ancient elves were immortal or not, but I do enjoy hearing Velanna and Nathanial discuss it, especially how much he frustrates her by saying he never said what she infers from his statements. It's amusing. 

[Lulupab]

Although mages can "resurrect" someone who just died. The codex mentions this and it says "before the spirit leaves the body" which is basically few seconds after someone is dead.

[Master Warder Z_]

Although mages can "resurrect" someone who just died. The codex mentions this and it says "before the spirit leaves the body" which is basically few seconds after someone is dead.

 

What would be the purpose of resurrecting a person back into their diseased husk they just died within?

[Lulupab]

What would be the purpose of resurrecting a person back into their diseased husk they just died within?

I don't believe in that theory mentioned earlier. Not every mage can heal every disease. Who is the strongest healer we have met? Anders? If they can cure death shouldn't they be able to cure cure anything? Unless its something inflicted by blood magic or something which is basically unresistible once its done. But even the resurrection can only be done by handful of mages and not every single one of them.

[animedreamer]

Mages and healing magic can't cure all diseases. Malcon Hawke himself died from one.

 

I thought Malcolm died from a wasting sickness? Like Queen Rowan? I don't think magic can fix that, but Anders and Spirit Healers seem capable of healing all manner of things. I wonder if had Wynne or Anders been around would Malcolm had survived?

[Steelcan]

honestly I wouldn't be surprised if they sat around a campfire making up stuff that they think humans probably took from them

[Steelcan]

What would be the purpose of resurrecting a person back into their diseased husk they just died within?

 

don't be so shortsighted, think of the applications....

[Master Warder Z_]

don't be so shortsighted, think of the applications....

 

I can see nasty applications with Biological warfare, and perhaps a few medical avenues, but apart from that...not much.

[Steelcan]

I can see nasty applications with Biological warfare, and perhaps a few medical avenues, but apart from that...not much.

 

House Bolton disapproves