93 réponses à ce sujet

[animedreamer]

I think it's more in character for Orlais to put it's heel down on the elves' necks along with Ferelden's ruling class. I think it would be more beneficial for Celene to potentially gain the approval of Ferelden's majority, the human population, and make Orlais' occupation of Ferelden seem positive to its populace by putting down the rebel elves and restoring peace to the country.

 

That is until word spreads to her own Elven population, a population that was already getting uppity and would just as likely realize they have more to gain throwing their lot in with their fellow kinsmen than staying oppressed by any human ruler. I also doubt Celene would care about the general populous either way, as I recall it was humans that ousted her peoples occupation of Ferelden in the first place.  With a large section of Ferelden being in debt to her (the Elven south) she gains allies and favor with her own Elven serfs and quiets her own pending rebellion, and a place to send them.

[MisterJB]

No it's the other way around. The Dwarves can and have done fine on their own, it's only a few surfer trader houses that benefit from the surface trade, a fact that is brought up in the assembly, "without the surface trade half our houses would go broke."

World of Thedas page 35:

"Orzammar relies upon the surface not just for its prosperity, but for its survival. Ages of Bligths have taken thousands of thaigs away from the dwarves. These were the places where most of the food was raised. The dwarven kingdom that endured alone, independent beneath the Stone from time immemorial, perished in the First Blight, faded into myth. Now, the remaining dwarves in Orzammar cling to existence through a lifeline to the surface."

 

Orzammar would literally starve to death if human stopped selling food to them. And you think they're going to participate in the destruction of an kingdoms just because the Wardens asks?

 

The City elves are a strength, it is only human oppression that keeps them weak, but had they something to fight for they'd show it, and even without weapons we've seen them still rise up when they got fed up with the injustices. So don't put them down, when they are being offered a chance away from human oppression, and a chance at real self governing.

 

They were fighting silverite clad chevaliers with knives tied to sticks serving as spears and tables serving as shields. And zero training.

They may serve as arrow fodder and poorly at that, but that's it.
 

 

The Dalish have never turned away those who wish to return to the people.

First, you'd have to convince the Dalish attacking a human nation neighboring the most powerful empire on Thedas is a good idea.

Second, you'd have to be able to amass an army of Dalish from all over Thedas without raising suspicions and having the Chantry or the nations they'd have to pass to interfere.

Besides, the Dalish have already said they can't field armies. They can lead guerrila strikes but that will, hardly, lead to conquering cities with tall walls. They don't even have siege weapons.

 

Elves work closely to nobility, Anora herself keeps a handmaiden that is an Elf, as do many noblewomen, direct access to a potential ruler like Anora and Ferelden could again see yet another travesty befall it. City Elves would be the absolute first strike against the remaining human nobility, and after that total chaos.

Many? We've seen a grand total of two.

Are you really suggesting city elves could just assassinate entire noble families? Because that's silly.

Howe couldn't do it with an army.
 

[Steelcan]

Have you considered the implications of a Red Wedding style removal of the human nobility?

 

Do you think the elves will then effortlessly step into the power vacuum left?

[DarthLaxian]

The more i keep hearing the more my dislike for having done anything in the past games grows. I feel like im being jerked around. If my Dalish Elf had heard how Alistair had reneged on his promise to give land to my people, it would have meant War. I would have left Amaranthine to have been sacked by intelligent Darkspawn, and waited for the king to have to do something about it with his own armies, and when they were weakened, killed them all and the Darkspawn to with a joint Dalish Elf, City Elf, and Dwarven Golem army.

 

I agree - also it is the magi-boon I hate being retconned...that shows that the chantry is a dictatorship and not even nations have the courage to stand up against it...

 

So my mage warden would re-group with old friends - the Dalish and the ex-werewolfs among them, go back to the tower, threaten the templars there with death (I am sure most would leave - after all they are no longer wanted here and are there in violation of King Alistairs word - and those remaining zealots I would kill!) and free the mages by force

 

I really hate those retcons...I loved those boons (hell, I always wanted to take the money (getting a real reward for being forced into the wardens, having to fight the blight etc.) and the title...but I am stupidly noble, so I always took a boon that was in character (mostly the mage boon of course ^^))

 

greetings LAX

[Inprea]

It would be nice if the boons were finally taken into consideration. Perhaps if you asked for freedom of the circle the mage faction is stronger. I always found the excuse that Fereldin lacks the strength to be rather suspect though depending on the state of things in witch hunt. Red Cliff was enjoying an economic boom and its influence was growing so rapidly it looked like it could challenge Denerim. Amarathine is enjoying an economic surge as well, provided you didn't burn the city down, while Vigil's keep has been turned into an extremely substantial fortress producing many high quality soldiers and generating wealth as well by becoming an even bigger trading spot then Amaranthine.

 

So you have three major cities enjoying large economic booms and increases in power, as seen in DA2 Amarathine looks like it could own the waking sea, bolstering the economy with wealth and goods as well as producing soldiers and yet somehow they're not back to full strength? It isn't just that though. If you put Behlen on the thrown dwarven goods are flowing more freely and a major dwarven settlement filled with ancient secrets of their smiths is in an idea location with an overland path open to it.

 

Then there is the Warden. If the Warden can fight through a tower filled with abominations, demons and blood mages from top to bottom I'm pretty darn sure she/he could clear the tower of templars.

 

I actually find it annoying that twice now we've been given the choice to murder an entire elf clan or circle yet haven't had the opportunity to give the templars the same treatment. After they sealed Wynne and the children inside the tower I sure was ready to kill every templar in there. Makes me feel like the writers are favoring the templars that we can't cause them equal harm. Even in DA2 you rescue the mages rather then kill all the templars. When I saw Hawke walking down the steps surrounded by templars I can't help but wonder how many mages each one of them is responsible for killing.

[Dova]

I do believe I've read somewhere, I think it's the wiki, that with Alistair king he'll acknowledge boons but won't actually do a single thing about it. I know for dern sure he did that with my magi boon but before I found out it was a bug I thought it was just a "Hah I broke up with you because you didn't harden me so sucks for you!"

I say, go for the money and title, and blow it all before you end up missing. 

[Master Warder Z_]

 When I saw Hawke walking down the steps surrounded by templars I can't help but wonder how many mages each one of them is responsible for killing.

 

No more then their duty required.

[Tinxa]

Meh why does everything have to be acknowledged for ever and ever in every game after the first one?

 

I'm quite happy that I get choices and epilogue slides in DAO alone even if they get changed later because it doesn't work for the longterm DA story. Part of me even wishes they would stop with this importing nonsense because it's quickly becoming unmanageable and it's hurting the different possible endings.

 

I'd like to have "Inquisitor hunts down all mages", "Inquisitor restores the Circles" and "Inquisitor establishes the rule of mages over everyone" endings available. You just can't carry on with these drastically different worldstates without handwaving it away.

So DA2 just ended unresolved on a cliffhanger and disappearing Hawke or it becomes like ME where no matter what you do, same things still happen (you killed the Rachni Queen and rewrote the Geth... well too bad! They just cloned a new queen and the Geth rewrote themselves back)

 

They should just pick a "canon" and go with it in the next game. I'm quite happy to take each possible ending of each game as an "alternate universe" where your choices happen and endure.

[teenparty]

And the mage boon was disproven as well.  Seems like Ferelden's monarchy aren't very good at keeping promises.

 I don't get why people keep saying this.

[Warden Commander Aeducan]

I'm hoping to see a portion of Ferelden's armies among the Dwarven's forces in the Deep Roads, but I fear that boon will share the fate of so many other boons being discarded as mere rumor and ignored or retconned. Choice that matter....meh

[KC_Prototype]

I don't think we'll see any. The Mage Boon was rejected by the Chantry. The Dalish Boon went badly due to unspecified factors. The others, if they still exist, don't seem relevant enough for the Inquisitor to run into them.

How was the mage boon blocked by the Chantry? I know if the mage Warden dies, it isn't. 

[Master Warder Z_]

How was the mage boon blocked by the Chantry? I know if the mage Warden dies, it isn't. 

 

According to Dev comment, the Chantry refused to grant the Fereldan circle autonomy  and maker praise them for that.

[animedreamer]

World of Thedas page 35:

"Orzammar relies upon the surface not just for its prosperity, but for its survival. Ages of Bligths have taken thousands of thaigs away from the dwarves. These were the places where most of the food was raised. The dwarven kingdom that endured alone, independent beneath the Stone from time immemorial, perished in the First Blight, faded into myth. Now, the remaining dwarves in Orzammar cling to existence through a lifeline to the surface."

 

Orzammar would literally starve to death if human stopped selling food to them. And you think they're going to participate in the destruction of an kingdoms just because the Wardens asks?

are you certain Ferelden constitute all of the surface trade? and so what all they would be doing is changing one set traders for another (trading now with the Elves, their supporters, (Orlai, and any Ferelden merchants who follow the flow of Money not Monarchs).. 

[LobselVith8]

How was the mage boon blocked by the Chantry? I know if the mage Warden dies, it isn't. 

 

It was rectonned by the developers to accommodate the storyline they wanted to do. I wouldn't bother trying to reconcile the endings of Origins and the consequences of the Magi Boon in the Epilogue slides with what followed next.

[Rifneno]

According to Dev comment, the Chantry refused to grant the Fereldan circle autonomy  and maker praise them for that.

PRAISE TEH MAKER! TEH MAKER HAS ARRIVED!

[AshenEndymion]

According to Dev comment, the Chantry refused to grant the Fereldan circle autonomy  and maker praise them for that.

 

The Chantry also refused to grant the Tevinter Circle autonomy...

 

The question isn't whether the mage boon is Chantry approved.  The question is whether or not the Chantry would have forced the issue by sending in Templars/Seekers to ensure the Ferelden Circle remained subject to Chantry laws, and whether or not Alistair(or Anora) would have acquiesced to the Chantry's position.  It's debatable whether or not the Chantry would have tried to do anything more than denounce the decision, before the Warden disappeared...  And it's even less likely that King Alistair would have gone back on his word to a living mage Warden.  If the Warden sacrified him/herself, or Anora is the sole ruler all bets are off, though.

[TheJediSaint]

PRAISE TEH MAKER! TEH MAKER HAS ARRIVED!

Spoiler

Go back to your corner of Darkspace.  Dinner's not ready yet!

[Master Warder Z_]

The Chantry also refused to grant the Tevinter Circle autonomy...

 

Fereldan is in no way shape or form, pre qunari Tevinter.

[Urazz]

The Chantry also refused to grant the Tevinter Circle autonomy...

 

The question isn't whether the mage boon is Chantry approved.  The question is whether or not the Chantry would have forced the issue by sending in Templars/Seekers to ensure the Ferelden Circle remained subject to Chantry laws, and whether or not Alistair(or Anora) would have acquiesced to the Chantry's position.  It's debatable whether or not the Chantry would have tried to do anything more than denounce the decision, before the Warden disappeared...  And it's even less likely that King Alistair would have gone back on his word to a living mage Warden.  If the Warden sacrified him/herself, or Anora is the sole ruler all bets are off, though.

I think with Fereldan being in recovery from the Blight, Alistair and/or Anora can't really ignore the Chantry and what they would have to say about granting the Fereldan Circle independence.  If Fereldan wasn't in such a state then I think Alistair and/or Anora would be more willing to press the issue.

 

But if you have Alistair as king in DA2, it does show that he is protecting Apostates from Templar prosecution in Fereldan if what Meredith said is anything to go by (though he is doing that regardless of the mage boon).

[Former_Fiend]

Fereldan is in no way shape or form, pre qunari Tevinter.

 

Hell, Ferelden isn't post qunari Tevinter.

[Rifneno]

I think with Fereldan being in recovery from the Blight, Alistair and/or Anora can't really ignore the Chantry and what they would have to say about granting the Fereldan Circle independence.  If Fereldan wasn't in such a state then I think Alistair and/or Anora would be more willing to press the issue.

 

But if you have Alistair as king in DA2, it does show that he is protecting Apostates from Templar prosecution in Fereldan if what Meredith said is anything to go by (though he is doing that regardless of the mage boon).

The problem is that the epilogues were pretty clear about what happened.  People got what they asked for.

 

Then they retconned them.  "We view the epilogue slides as rumor and heresy", I think was their pathetic excuse.  Even though the slides themselves clearly state when something is only a rumor.  But then, what can you expect from DA2's writers?

[AshenEndymion]

Fereldan is in no way shape or form, pre qunari Tevinter.

 
True.  But the Chantry would have needed Orlais to invade if Ferelden ignored the Chantry's announcement that the Circle wasn't autonomous.  That's what they did when Tevinter rebelled.  Ferelden hasn't been invaded by Orlais yet.  That means one of two things:  The Chantry hasn't been able to convince Celene of the folly of allowing an autonomous Circle, or Ferelden gave in to the Chantry.  And I don't see very many scenarios in which King Alistair gives in to the Chantry and goes back on his promises to the Warden.
 
It's doubly suspect that the mage-boon was retconned when we see that Alistair is being told off by Meredith because he did give the Circle autonomy.

[Master Warder Z_]

 
True.  But the Chantry would have needed Orlais to invade if Ferelden ignored the Chantry's announcement that the Circle wasn't autonomous.  That's what they did when Tevinter rebelled.  Ferelden hasn't been invaded by Orlais yet.  That means one of two things:  The Chantry hasn't been able to convince Celene of the folly of allowing an autonomous Circle, or Ferelden gave in to the Chantry.  And I don't see very many scenarios in which King Alistair gives in to the Chantry and goes back on his promises to the Warden.
 
It's doubly suspect that the mage-boon was retconned when we see that Alistair is being told off by Meredith because he did give the Circle autonomy.

 

Apparently Alistair gave into the Chantry given that the Devs stated, it was retconned into non existence.

 

 

 

Hell, Ferelden isn't post qunari Tevinter.

 

Not really no, The Imperium imports Mecenaries, Lyrium and materials of war by the metric ton, according to WOT it has some of the richest trade in the known world.

 

Fereldan does...alright in trade, but really only in two specific spots, the coastlands along Gwaren and Amerthine, with them being the two settlements large enough to support commerce on a national scale and to the West with Orlais.

 

Tevinter has one of the largest normal armies in the world, supplemented by more mages then anywhere else.

 

Fereldan doesn't even have a royal army until it's formed, and its usually whatever professional forces the banns have available, plus whatever commoners they can scrap off the streets.

 

We could do this all day.

[AshenEndymion]

Apparently Alistair gave into the Chantry given that the Devs stated, it was retconned into non existence.

 

Until something shows up in a Dragon Age game that demonstrates a retcon with regards to the mage boon, I see no reason to believe it didn't happen.  Dev statement, or otherwise.

[Dabrikishaw]

Seeing as the only worthwhile boons are the Human Noble(which is basically Dragon Age: Origins - Awakening) and the Grey Warden statues, I don't see why they would come up in inquisition.