695 réponses à ce sujet

[Gervaise]

This is a bit of a follow on to the thread - do elves deserve a homeland?    Let's assume that by whatever means, either rebellion or benevolence of human rulers, you have achieved a homeland.   It is intended as a refuge for all elves.   How would you organise it?

 

Would you allow the Dalish to run the show?    Would you insist on some sort of Landsmeet type council to approve an overall leader?  Would you not have an overall ruler but simply a ruling council with equal representation for the various elven factions.

 

Would you have freedom of worship?    Bearing in mind that many city elves do worship the Maker and others have converted to the Qun, would you allow them to continue to follow their particular faith?    What of those who have no religious faith and are hostile and disparaging about the Creators/Maker/Qun?

 

What would be your attitude towards other races?    Would they be allowed to co-exist in the elven state provided they did not cause trouble?    Would they be allowed a say in running affairs?    Or would all non elves be excluded totally and evicted if living on the land now considered elven?

 

Would you be isolationist and attempt to be largely self sufficient or would you actively engage in trade with other nations?    Would you send ambassadors to make your case with other rulers and would you allow the same?    Would you have an army patrolling borders and keeping out intruders and non elves.

 

Everyone may have their own particular view about the truth of what happened in the past and this may inform your ideas about the best way to run your homeland but for the most part I want to concentrate on the future and how you would use your homeland?

[Dean_the_Young]

Badly, I imagine.

 

Is there anyone in the fandom who actually has experience in managing a government?

[Kimarous]

Badly, I imagine.

 

Is there anyone in the fandom who actually has experience in managing a government?

 

Not here. I'm of the mindset that "conquering the world" is a silly notion because all the troops you can muster won't bail you out of the managerial nightmare of unifying the planet under a single banner, especially on an economic level. I'm leery enough about being put in charge of a single village, let alone a nation-state.

[Feybrad]

They shall submit to the Qun.

[Gervaise]

Sigh.   Many people on the forums have experience of voting for the people they want in government.   Presumably they do so with some idea of the government they would like to see.   Just because you do not have the power/money/contacts to get into government yourself does not mean you may not have ideas about how things should be run.     I know how I would organise an elven homeland but I'm interested in seeing other ideas.   If nothing else it may convince me that the majority could not be entrusted with governing a homeland and therefore the elves would be better off left where they are.    Essentially the inhabitants of our forums are part of a wider community, just as those leading the elves would be.    The majority of elves have no experience of running anything.   We have the leaders in the alienages and the Dalish keepers, the former leading small downtrodden communities, the latter small independent clans.    So essentially it would be starting from scratch.

[Dean_the_Young]

Sigh.   Many people on the forums have experience of voting for the people they want in government.   Presumably they do so with some idea of the government they would like to see.   Just because you do not have the power/money/contacts to get into government yourself does not mean you may not have ideas about how things should be run.     I know how I would organise an elven homeland but I'm interested in seeing other ideas.   If nothing else it may convince me that the majority could not be entrusted with governing a homeland and therefore the elves would be better off left where they are.    Essentially the inhabitants of our forums are part of a wider community, just as those leading the elves would be.    The majority of elves have no experience of running anything.   We have the leaders in the alienages and the Dalish keepers, the former leading small downtrodden communities, the latter small independent clans.    So essentially it would be starting from scratch.

Well that's a recipie for disaster, then. Having experience voting for people they want in government has very little to do with actually running a government. Voters get to express a preference, no matter how detached from reality it may be. Organizations fail and fall if they take actions out of step with reality.

 

I have about as much faith in the wider community of the forum to create a functioning civil society as I do the leaders in the alienages and Dalish... which neither of them really have. Heck, the Dalish don't even have a tradition of sedentry governance, while the alienage leadership structure is so weak that we have seen a grand total of one city elf executing leadership worth the name... and she wasn't even the community leader at the time.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

This is a bit of a follow on to the thread - do elves deserve a homeland?    Let's assume that by whatever means, either rebellion or benevolence of human rulers, you have achieved a homeland.   It is intended as a refuge for all elves.   How would you organise it?

 

Would you allow the Dalish to run the show?    Would you insist on some sort of Landsmeet type council to approve an overall leader?  Would you not have an overall ruler but simply a ruling council with equal representation for the various elven factions.

 

Would you have freedom of worship?    Bearing in mind that many city elves do worship the Maker and others have converted to the Qun, would you allow them to continue to follow their particular faith?    What of those who have no religious faith and are hostile and disparaging about the Creators/Maker/Qun?

 

What would be your attitude towards other races?    Would they be allowed to co-exist in the elven state provided they did not cause trouble?    Would they be allowed a say in running affairs?    Or would all non elves be excluded totally and evicted if living on the land now considered elven?

 

Would you be isolationist and attempt to be largely self sufficient or would you actively engage in trade with other nations?    Would you send ambassadors to make your case with other rulers and would you allow the same?    Would you have an army patrolling borders and keeping out intruders and non elves.

 

Everyone may have their own particular view about the truth of what happened in the past and this may inform your ideas about the best way to run your homeland but for the most part I want to concentrate on the future and how you would use your homeland?

1) I would have a council with equal representation for the different elven factions. 

 

2) Freedom of religion as long as you do not abuse those of other faiths. 

 

3) All races are allowed in as long as they leave their prejudices at the door, and this includes elf prejudices against said races. 

 

4) Have diplomatic and economic relations with other nations. 

[Sifr]

1) I would have a council with equal representation for the different elven factions. 

 

2) Freedom of religion as long as you do not abuse those of other faiths. 

 

3) All races are allowed in as long as they leave their prejudices at the door, and this includes elf prejudices against said races. 

 

4) Have diplomatic and economic relations with other nations. 

 

All of this and;

 

5): One day a week shall be the designated as a "Frolicking Day".

[Wulfram]

Hopefully the struggle for independence has given the new elven realm a leader capable of serving as a unifying figure, who could found a monarchy.  Monarchies can be good at that sort of thing, and democracy would be anachronistic.  But a lot of self government for the various elvish communities.

 

The elves who live in the Dales currently would get the land they currently occupy.  The dalish would get the less inhabited lands.  Other immigrants could join who they choose.

 

Humans would be permitted in the non-Dalish lands.  Human nobles and absentee landlords would lose their land initially, and human immigrants wouldn't be encouraged, otherwise humans (and others) get full rights under the law, but likely exercise little political power.

 

Religious tolerance, yes.  In practical terms that probably means that people who want a Dalish way of life live with the Dalish, and those who don't, don't.  Elves living in the new nation would be expected to owe allegiance to the new nation, not to a foreign power seeking their conquest and enslavement, so orthodox followers of the Qun would have issues.  But I don't see why orthodox Qunari would wish to settle in an elven homeland anyway.  Elvish Qunari who can reconcile their way of life with loyalty to a non-Qunari nation would be welcome.

 

The Dalish inhabitants can be isolationist, the Kingdom wouldn't be overly so.  In fact, it may be expedient to accept the overlordship of the Orlesian crown.

 

Badly, I imagine.

 

Is there anyone in the fandom who actually has experience in managing a government?

 

I've played Crusader Kings and Sim City.  What more experience could you ask for?

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

All of this and;

 

5): One day a week shall be the designated as a "Frolicking Day".

 

Those who disobey this the most important law in the great state of "Take that evil Humans!" will of course be shot on sight.

[Roamingmachine]

Separate the two distinct cultures (city/dalish), making the nation a confederation of city-states and clanholds with some type of a permanent council to decide on matters pertaining to the entire nation. All manner of missionary work that cross the borders of the states should be strictly prohibited, but internally such questions should be mostly left to the individual states but with the rule of "you don't have to like them, but you do have to live with them so don't poke them" strictly enforced.

As for the other races...Humanity is hostile. There are rivers of bad blood between humans and elves and that cannot be reconciled in few short years, perhaps even centuries. Combine that with the funny way the elven genome works when mixed with others, and allowing permanent human population is a recipe for disaster. I'd imagine the cities would need trade and would tolerate the merchants, provided that the merchants don't try to influence elven matters.

Dwarves would be...dwarves. Does anyone really have anything against dwarves? So long as they don't try to influence elven politics, I'd imagine that dwarves can trade and live fairly freely.

Qunari are qunari, whether they have pointy ears or horns. They are hostile to everyone and want nothing more than destroy all other cultures and thus cannot be tolerated in any form within the borders of the fledgling elven state.

Not a perfect solution, not the strongest of nations either, but the best way forward that I can see. Also,+1 for mandatory frolicking day

[Dean_the_Young]

1) I would have a council with equal representation for the different elven factions.

What constitutes 'equal representation'? Or even a faction?

 

 

Does each Dalish clan and each alienage get a vote? That would run into a problem if there are more small tribes than big alienages.

 

Do the Dalish and the City Elves each collectively get X votes? If the City Elves significantly outnumber the Dalish in population, that wouldn't be proportionally fair to the city elves.

 

Would significant groups of importance like, say, Briala's eluvian faction get a vote? How about an alliance of elven merchants who are key bankrollers of the project?

 

What would be the rules against sub-dividing to claim more seats as more factions that are simply aligned?

 

 

2) Freedom of religion as long as you do not abuse those of other faiths. 

 

 

What constitutes abuse? The Dalish religion/culture regularly compares the Human culture to a disease, and the ancient Dales appears to have extended that belief to Andrastianism as well. In a zero-sum scenario in the existence of the other is considered a harm, what gives?

 

 

3) All races are allowed in as long as they leave their prejudices at the door, and this includes elf prejudices against said races. 

 

 

Wouldn't a key prejudice be the practical disenfranchisement of non-elves, since you reserved representation for your leadership council to elven factions?

 

Also, what's the policy towards half-blood elves? Do they count as elves, or humans?

 

 

4) Have diplomatic and economic relations with other nations.

 

 

Well, that's easy. Even the Dales had diplomati and economic relations, even if that relationship was 'none, or else.'

 

What kind, with who, and what are the goals of foreign policy?

 

I've played Crusader Kings and Sim City.  What more experience could you ask for?

 

Less egomania.

[Medhia_Nox]

I say we start with doing something with demons.  You can't be the Dalish without summoning extremely dangerous spirits.

 

Then, we'll hate shemlen... a LOT... cause you can't run a proper elven land without really feeding your bigotry.

 

Next we'll talk about the glorious past, think about the glorious past, laugh and cry about the glorious past... hate shemlen for ruining our glorious past... and largely make up a bunch of unverifiable **** about our glorious past that both assist us in summoning extremely dangerous spirits and hating shemlen.

 

By that time... someone is going to do something stupid, as it's inevitable with our people - and that extremely dangerous spirit we forgot about while hating shemlen and waxing philosophical about our glorious past... will get free and wipe us off the map.

 

See, there's really not much "managing" needed in an elven society.  

[Jedi Master of Orion]

It's kind of hard to concoct a good system for representing the various elves when he we don't even know the entirety of their demographics.

[Roamingmachine]

Make a thread titled "Elf Supporters: How would you run a homeland?"
Have the hater brigade invading within minutes.

[Lulupab]

Make a thread titled "Elf Supporters: How would you run a homeland?"
Have the hater brigade invading within minutes.

 

Let the elf haters have their fun, DA is the only place they can actually. Pretty much in every other game Elves own the humans. They are faster, live longer, have better magic etc...

 

Anyway I agree with the faction type society so that both the Dalish and city elves can live in harmony but residence of humans shouldn't be allowed, it wont fix anything and it will stir the bad blood. Merchants and other similar businesses that draws the none-elf people to this nation can stay in especial hotels designed for them.

[In Exile]

It's kind of hard to concoct a god system for representing the various elves when he we don't even know the entirety of their demographics.

Well, we can talk about hypothetically what sort of society would allow the elves to flourish. Which would lead to another CE vs Dalish argument, since many of us differ on exactly that point.

[animedreamer]

Every elf is given equal to chance to learn and study and at some point is then given the opportunity to display which skills are best suited to them. For takes that need being done but no one is very interested in doing, all able parties must make time in order to pitch in and complete the task. The Halle poop cleaning or harvesting chore is something all able Elves have to help with every other day. If you don't like your aptitude results then, reapply for re-educating/training and try at the aptitude test. In fact every 10 years re-evaluating should happen anyway.

[Medhia_Nox]

@RoamingMachine:  Hey, I'm a shemlen... invading is what I do.

 

And if you can't accept that the criticism I leveled through sarcasm are absolutely true about the Dalish... then you've already failed at the first step to a successful homeland.

 

Only thing I didn't add was:  Be so stuck up as to think we're better than the city elves and not want anything to do with them.

 

Praise be to Felassan... the only DA elf worth giving any attention to.

[Gervaise]

You see, the thing is these would have been exactly the questions that the elves would have to have found answers to back when they were given the Dales.   There were no Dalish then, only ex-slave refugees from the Tevinter Imperium.  What experience did they have of government - nil.   Many of their most charismatic leaders had died during the betrayal of Andraste.     Who decided how their nation should be organised and what their correct culture should be?    Who decided what their relations should be with their neighbours?   The banners of the aravals are meant to be representative of the noble houses that gave the clans their names.   However, any noble houses could only have arisen after the formation of the Dales.   So how did they get their positions?    Did all the refugees agree with their views, were minority dissenters silenced or were the leadership the vocal minority who assumed control because the majority just wanted to get on with their lives in peace?

 

When the Dalish dream of some elven state in the future they envisage it along their lines because they don't even regard city elves as true elves.     Not all elves are going to accept this so I wonder if any sort of unified state for all elves is going to be possible.   Even Dalish clans have grown apart over the years and may not easily accept another clan's way of doing things.   A number of city states/clan holds in a loose federation does seem a more workable scenario.

[Gervaise]

I'm a fan of Shartan personally - he's my hero.   I did like Felassan too, I thought he was the best bit about Masked Empire.  Unfortunately both Shartan and Felassan are dead - isn't that always the way!    So at present I'm placing my faith in Solas as the next elf worth giving attention to.  

 

I was hoping that putting "Elf Supporters" might make it clear that haters should stay away.   Sarcasm doesn't bother me - I'm an elf with a sense of humour.    Just trying to pass the time until the next interesting revelation hits the boards.

[Ruairi46]

I would introduce them to my old pals the werewolves and allow the 'gift' to be spread and then in turn Thedas would become absolute bedlam ensuring Complete Global Saturation...

[Lukas Trevelyan]

Such a responsibility is colossal for a single person to solely take control of.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I can't really be the only one who finds Felassan to be one screwed up individual can I? Does being snarky and  "not looking down on City Elves" really make up for the fact that he seems to consider unleashing a monster demon on the countryside to be an acceptable thing to do?