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Uh, no it doesn't. All the stories seem to remember about the Dales are about the humans crushing it.
and how the Dalish fought to maintain their freedom, how the Dales are the last of an ancient civilization, the past glories of the Dales and Arlathan before it
I'm not even going to get into this in detail, but no, there are no laws against white people owning land in Zimbabwe. There's a lot of history behind that whole situation.
Clearly, I don't understand, so maybe you should.
...or not, since this a thread for elf supporters.
I can provide links detailing the laws in question, but we should take it to PM for that
I am allowed to offer my opinion on the elves am I not?
I can provide links detailing the laws in question, but we should take it to PM for that
I am allowed to offer my opinion on the elves am I not?
and how the Dalish fought to maintain their freedom, how the Dales are the last of an ancient civilization, the past glories of the Dales and Arlathan before it
Fighting to defend their independence = glorifying violence against humans? Absolutely none of what you mentioned means they glorify violence against humans. None of the remembered glories of the Dales or Arlathan are in any way were centered around fighting humans.
If anything the reverse is true. The Chantry may have removed Shartan from the Chant but they do still record the righteous glory of the Exalted March that crushed the treacherous elves in the Glory Age.
You are, but the OP is specifically addressing pro-elf people in favor of a homeland. Anything else is off-topic.
I don't believe that discussing elvish pride is too far off topic, cultural pride is a part of nationalism, and nationalism is very relevant to the topic
Their cultural identity certainly glorifies the violence the dalish of old (living in the dales) inflicted upon the other human nations
The cultural identity of the Dalish is focused on staying true to their culture and religion. It's part of the Dalish mantra, refusing to surrender who they are. Given how most clans prefer to avoid conflicts with humans, I don't see how it's part of their cultural identity to glory violence. I anticipate this would be part of what any Dalish settlements in an independent Dales would focus on, remembering their past, respecting who they are, and building for a new tomorrow for future generations of the People.
I am allowed to offer my opinion on the elves am I not?
It's a thread about discussing how we would manage a hypothetical elven homeland. It would probably be best for us all to get back on-topic.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
This might be simplistic, but I'd make an attempt at democracy. There's little precedent in Thedas for those kind of politics, but I'll just fantasize a bit, k? 
Other than that, I'd broaden the hunter based culture that the Dalish already thrive in. This would help with both food and defense. Just not sure how much they know of agriculture. Or how much City Elves know, for that matter.
I don't believe that discussing elvish pride is too far off topic, cultural pride is a part of nationalism, and nationalism is very relevant to the topic
Dalish pride, or Elven pride? People seemed to be concerned with distinguishing the two. Are you saying that any pride the City Elves might retain isn't a good thing? I'd argue it is all the city elves have left.I don't believe that discussing elvish pride is too far off topic, cultural pride is a part of nationalism, and nationalism is very relevant to the topic
Dalish pride, or Elven pride? People seemed to be concerned with distinguishing the two. Are you saying that any pride the City Elves might retain isn't a good thing? I'd argue it is all the city elves have left.
They may hold pride for themselves, but it will only serve to continuously isolate themselves in the alienages, assimilation is their future, not independence.
It's relevant, perhaps, but fixating on it is still distracting from the real question.
Maybe the anti-elf people in here might find it interesting to try and consider how they would run an elven homeland. Otherwise, all the anti-Dalish negativity is getting quite tiresome.
Anti-dalish people Samahl.
City Elves deserve hugs and rights.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
They may hold pride for themselves, but it will only serve to continuously isolate themselves in the alienages, assimilation is their future, not independence.
Speaking on gaming terms alone, there is next to no future in assimilation. The whole "charm" of fantasy based universes like this one is isolation and seperate races. The more the better even. Here we're just dealing with the standard makeup of humans, elves, and dwarves. Lets not make it more bland than it already is.
edit: Oops, and the Qunari, of course. But screw them. They want to unify everyone. Which is partly my problem with them. Unity is good in real life, but sucks for fiction.
Speaking on gaming terms alone, there is next to no future in assimilation. The whole "charm" of fantasy based universes like this one is isolation and seperate races. The more the better even. Here we're just dealing with the standard makeup of humans, elves, and dwarves. Lets not make it more bland than it already is.
*shrug*
if the devs wanted an independent land for the elves they wouldn't have retconned the Dalish boon, so speaking on gaming terms won't get us anywhere
This might be simplistic, but I'd make an attempt at democracy. There's little precedent in Thedas for those kind of politics, but I'll just fantasize a bit, k?
Other than that, I'd broaden the hunter based culture that the Dalish already thrive in. This would help with both food and defense. Just not sure how much they know of agriculture. Or how much City Elves know, for that matter.
Well, there is a codex entry that suggests that some city elves are employed as farmhands. They may very well know more about sedentary farming than the Dalish - useful knowledge if you're looking to feed your populace. How many have extensive knowledge is beyond what I know.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
*shrug*
if the devs wanted an independent land for the elves they wouldn't have retconned the Dalish boon, so speaking on gaming terms won't get us anywhere
Oh, personally, I don't care if they get a land or not. I was just entertaining that thought for the purposes of this thread. For all I care, the elves can go on as they are. It's already interesting. Unless we fast forward a hundred years or so, I don't care to see big sweeping changes.
I would have some some sort of constitutional monarchy with a parliament or congress to keep things fair. Not sure how prevalent the idea of democracy is in Thedas, but I suppose this will do. Thedas seems to be used to monarchy, so this seems like a good start.
There would be total religious freedom, save for perhaps the Qun. I am not overtly hostile toward the Qun, but it just wouldn't work. The Qun is a form government and economy as well as a religion/philosophy. Ideally, the nation would be officially secular. In addition, mages will be trained in academies with more freedom.
Other races would be allowed to live in the nation after a few years, and would be allowed to hold office, provided they are elected. The only reason a human, dwarf, or qunari would not hold office would be that they were not elected. In fact, we might need a few humans to help us get started, seeing as no elves would have experience in government.
The nation would trade and negotiate with any willing to do so with it.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
In a sense, the Dalish already seem pretty democratic. With some differences, of course. They're ruled by Elders (Hahren and Keepers), who represent the various clans. But from what I can tell, the elders don't rule with an iron fist or anything. The Clan is even allowed to kill their own Keeper if they turn into an abomination.
In a sense, the Dalish already seem pretty democratic. With some differences, of course. They're ruled by Elders (Hahren and Keepers), who represent the various clans. But from what I can tell, the elders don't rule with an iron fist or anything. The Clan is even allowed to kill their own Keeper if they turn into an abomination.
they are a tribal government with the elderly and powerful ruling, they could also be classified as a magocracy
Guest_StreetMagic_*
they are a tribal government with the elderly and powerful ruling, they could also be classified as a magocracy
I'm not sure how often the leaders are mages though. It doesn't seem like the Dalish apprentice in Stolen Throne is a mage. But I haven't looked at that book in awhile (on a sidenote, I got some hints that that elf was also Mahariel's dad, but it's not clearly said. If so, he became the Keeper before Marethari).
I'm not sure how often the leaders are mages though. It doesn't seem like the Dalish apprentice in Stolen Throne is a mage. But I haven't looked at that book in awhile (on a sidenote, I got some hints that that elf was also Mahariel's dad, but it's not clearly said. If so, he became the Keeper before the Marethari).
keepers being the de facto ruler of clans would make them a magocracy, and I am fairly sure keepers are always mages
Guest_StreetMagic_*
keepers being the de facto ruler of clans would make them a magocracy, and I am fairly sure keepers are always mages
Like I said, I'm not sure. Being a mage isn't their main duty though. It's as they are called: "Keepers". As in lore keepers. I don't think it necessarily means practictioners of all that lore. But scholars and storytellers.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
BTW, the reason I'm saying this is is because if I recall, the elf in Stolen Throne said he didn't know magic or something along those lines. And then he also led Maric to someone who did... Flemeth.
But like I said, I could be off. I'd happily stand corrected if so. Don't have the book on hand.
If this was real world I might agree assimilation might be a a valid and very good option. But it's not, and as nationalism is a big thing in Thedas, I don't see why the Elves wouldn't or shouldn't strive for an Elven nation state. The elves are disenfranchised enough to realise the only thing that may give them political legitimacy in the eyes of others would be to express themselves as a truly independent nation.They may hold pride for themselves, but it will only serve to continuously isolate themselves in the alienages, assimilation is their future, not independence.
Keepers are usually mages, yes. Although the number of mages in each clan is usually pretty small.
If this was real world I might agree assimilation might be a a valid and very good option. But it's not, and as nationalism is a big thing in Thedas, I don't see why the Elves wouldn't or shouldn't strive for an Elven nation state. The elves are disenfranchised enough to realise the only thing that may give them political legitimacy in the eyes of others would be to express themselves as a truly independent nation.
because when they get their own nation bad things happen, usually to them
Keepers are usually mages, yes. Although the number of mages in each clan is usually pretty small.
If this was real world I might agree assimilation might be a a valid and very good option. But it's not, and as nationalism is a big thing in Thedas, I don't see why the Elves wouldn't or shouldn't strive for an Elven nation state. The elves are disenfranchised enough to realise the only thing that may give them political legitimacy in the eyes of others would be to express themselves as a truly independent nation.
Which they could never hold. They don't have the numbers, allies, resources, or training.
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