695 réponses à ce sujet

[Master Warder Z_]

its not like he's the lead writer or anything, its just further proof of how oppressed the elves are

 

True, True.

[LobselVith8]

its not like he's the lead writer or anything, its just further proof of how oppressed the elves are

Pretending to misunderstand my statement doesn't change that the usual suspects have trolled elven thread after elven thread, and harassed those of us who are interested in talking about the actual topic the thread is intended for.

[Han Shot First]

I'm entirely in favor of the elves gaining an autonomous kingdom...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...for an Exalted March to destroy. The Maker wills it!

[Senya]

On topic, I think a loose confederation of city-states would be most viable. The elves at this point are just too estranged for a stronger central government/society. They'd need a firm alliance and agreement to not ally with any nation without the unanimous or overwhelming vote of approval of the other communities. They do need to trade and engage in diplomacy with other nations. Isolating themselves never worked for them before.

[Milan92]

I'm entirely in favor of the elves gaining an autonomous kingdom...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...for an Exalted March to destroy. The Maker wills it!

 

Maybe we can allow that as Herald of Andraste  

[Lady Shayna]

I thought the title of the thread was "How would you ruin a homeland?"

 

...and I thought, "That's awesome. What an appropriate question."

 

Heh.  I think my planned elf needs a different motivation now.  

[Senya]

I'm entirely in favor of the elves gaining an autonomous kingdom...
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
...for an Exalted March to destroy. The Maker wills it!

That movie was so inaccurate...

[Han Shot First]

On a more serious note, if the elves managed to secure an independent homeland I think the best scenario for them  would be to become a semi-autonomous client-kingdom. Their king or queen or council of burghers or what have you, pledge themselves as vassals to a more powerful human monarch. They retain a measure of self-rule but have their foreign policy limited, and must pay taxes or tribute to their liege. In turn they get protection. I think that would offer the best chances of having the kingdom last. Full independence from human kingdoms is just asking for another Exalted March and sure to be followed by another period of conquest and enslavement. They are too outnumbered.

[Roamingmachine]

I thought the title of the thread was "How would you ruin a homeland?"
 
...and I thought, "That's awesome. What an appropriate question."

...Because this thread did not have enough snark. /sigh

[myahele]

This is thedas. The only way they can get land is by either: finding an unexplore land (unlikely)

Or take it by force and maintain it by any means necessary. This is the perfect opportunity for them to do so once the smoke clears.

[Master Warder Z_]

Or take it by force and maintain it by any means necessary. This is the perfect opportunity for them to do so once the smoke clears.

 

This is the perfect opportunity for them to die pointlessly and in futility.

 

Elves are a minority, Elves capable of waging war are an even smaller minority, they don't have armies, they don't have mounts, they don't have the logistical basis to wage a campaign, they aren't a united people.

 

Issue after issue.

[Senya]

On a more serious note, if the elves managed to secure an independent homeland I think the best scenario for them  would be to become a semi-autonomous client-kingdom. Their king or queen or council of burghers or what have you, pledge themselves as vassals to a more powerful human monarch. They retain a measure of self-rule but have their foreign policy limited, and must pay taxes or tribute to their liege. In turn they get protection. I think that would offer the best chances of having the kingdom last. Full independence from human kingdoms is just asking for another Exalted March and sure to be followed by another period of conquest and enslavement. They are too outnumbered.

The City Elves might agree to that, but the Dalish won't.

[Han Shot First]

Or take it by force and maintain it by any means necessary. This is the perfect opportunity for them to do so once the smoke clears.

 

The problem for the elves is that even if they seize territory, in the long term they can't hold it. They are a drop of water in a human ocean. They are too outnumbered to maintain independence without also gaining the support and protection of a powerful human kingdom, who might see an elven kingdom as an opportunity to weaken the rival whose lands will now form that elven kingdom. It is hard to picture any scenario where that happens without the elves also being in a status of vassalage to that patron.

 

The Qunari as protectors are another option, but that would require that the elven kingdom be established near Qunari territory, and possibly that the elves convert to the Qun themselves.

[Steelcan]

The problem for the elves is that even if they seize territory, in the long term they can't hold it. They are a drop of water in a human ocean. They are too outnumbered to maintain independence without also gaining the support and protection of a powerful human kingdom, who might see an elven kingdom as an opportunity to weaken the rival whose lands will now form that elven kingdom. It is hard to picture any scenario where that happens without the elves also being in a status of vassalage to that patron.

 

The Qunari as protectors are another option, but that would require that the elven kingdom be established near Qunari territory, and possibly that the elves convert to the Qun themselves.

the enemy of my enemy is my converter

[Master Warder Z_]

the enemy of my enemy is my converter

 

Blasted horn headed heathens.

[Steelcan]

Blasted horn headed heathens.

blasted knife ear heathens

[Master Warder Z_]

blasted knife ear heathens

 

Honestly it seems like humanity just can't win with elves.

 

They got most of them to abandon their original gods, so they worshiped dragons, after that the maker, then they went back to worshiping their own gods, and then the Maker/ their own gods.

 

Now the friggin Qun is involved too.

 

-_-'' if nothing else Humanity should get final say, they were interacting with them in this subject long before the Qunari ever came around.

[Mistic]

On a more serious note, if the elves managed to secure an independent homeland I think the best scenario for them  would be to become a semi-autonomous client-kingdom. Their king or queen or council of burghers or what have you, pledge themselves as vassals to a more powerful human monarch. They retain a measure of self-rule but have their foreign policy limited, and must pay taxes or tribute to their liege. In turn they get protection. I think that would offer the best chances of having the kingdom last. Full independence from human kingdoms is just asking for another Exalted March and sure to be followed by another period of conquest and enslavement. They are too outnumbered.

 

That... That actually makes a lot of sense, and in a way it's what Celene was proposing to the Dalish in TME. It's not far-fetched.

[TheJediSaint]

Honestly it seems like humanity just can't win with elves.

 

They got most of them to abandon their original gods, so they worshiped dragons, after that the maker, then they went back to worshiping their own gods, and then the Maker/ their own gods.

 

Now the friggin Qun is involved too.

 

-_-'' if nothing else Humanity should get final say, they were interacting with them in this subject long before the Qunari ever came around.

Humanity does have a history of being dicks to Elves.  That's probably part of the problem.

[Master Warder Z_]

That... That actually makes a lot of sense, and in a way it's what Celene was proposing to the Dalish in TME. It's not far-fetched.

 

I've been preaching Valley of the flowers for nearly a year, and TME only cemented my view on it.

[Master Warder Z_]

Humanity do have a history of being dicks to Elves.  That's probably part of the problem.

 

Inversely the Elves have a history of being dicks to Humans.

 

That's probably part of the problem.

[TheJediSaint]

Inversely the Elves have a history of being dicks to Humans.

 

That's probably part of the problem.

Thedas's history is basically a big circle jerk.

[sandalisthemaker]

The problem for the elves is that even if they seize territory, in the long term they can't hold it. They are a drop of water in a human ocean. They are too outnumbered to maintain independence without also gaining the support and protection of a powerful human kingdom, who might see an elven kingdom as an opportunity to weaken the rival whose lands will now form that elven kingdom. It is hard to picture any scenario where that happens without the elves also being in a status of vassalage to that patron.

 

The Qunari as protectors are another option, but that would require that the elven kingdom be established near Qunari territory, and possibly that the elves convert to the Qun themselves.

 

There is no way for the elves to gain protection from the Qunari without converting to the Qun. If the elves resisted conversion, they would be mowed down and the survivors lobotomized.  
 

If they do convert, then they would indeed be protected by the Qunari, but they wouldn't be allowed their own separate kingdom. They'd be integrated within Qunari society and their Keepers/ mages would be leashed, collared, and their lips sewn together. They would remain a distinct people, since Qunari do not believe in the mixing of races, but they would lose their original culture completely, so what would be the point?  It would also provide the Qunari with more troops in the form of guerrilla fighters and archers. Providing the Qunari with more troops is never a good thing.

 

I wonder if there is anything to be gleaned from Gaider's sassiness.  Perhaps there is even more elven tragedy to be had in Inquisition?  Personally, I just don't see the condition of the elves improving without massive help or some kind of major upheaval.

[Steelcan]

Thedas's history is basically a big circle jerks.

if its a circle, where's my annulment option?