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Be loyal citizens instead of murderous rebels and rioters, and the chances of the local monarch being forced to treat you like a rebellion and put your enclave to the torch drop considerably.
And then cross your fingers and hope today isn't the day humans come in and try to rape and/or murder you.
The most important hing is that this can't be the place where all the elves are shoved, City elves can't be tossed out of their homes because 'eh, they've got someplace to go now'
I think it would mostly be Dalish who go there, their wouldn't be much change in lifestyle I feel, so while City elves still ought to be accepted if they want to join, it shouldn't be forced.
Alright, that said, here's how I feel it should be organized.
Any thing that is within-clan is that clan's concern. If they want to accept new people, theft from another clan-member, lying, cheating, whatever, so long as it is between clan-members it's their concern. If it's between clans than it's adressed at they're meet-up they already do, where, presumably the keepers of the clans, decide what to do. They also select and hear from Ambassadors to and from the human and dwarven kingdoms.
And then cross your fingers and hope today isn't the day humans come in and try to rape and/or murder you.
Peasants and serfs have it rough all over.
Peasants and serfs have it rough all over.
Please direct me to the time when a nobleman walked into a poor human neighborhood and abducted dozens of women to rape en masse. Or when humans were sacrificed for the sake of initiating soldiers into a branch of the military. What about the time there was a law outlawing self-defense for humans?
Oh right. None of that happened.
Guest_Faerunner_*
Be loyal citizens instead of murderous rebels and rioters, and the chances of the local monarch being forced to treat you like a rebellion and put your enclave to the torch drop considerably.
Of course, because people with greater social, political, and economic power never murder or massacre those under them without just cause. Victims of systematic subjugation, violence, massacres and genocide always bring it upon themselves after endlessly harrying and forcing those with greater power than them to choose it as an absolute last resort.
It's like the city elves under Bann Vaughan and Rendon Howe. The elves brought the wedding-crashing, kidnapping, gang-rape, and later purge of the alienage completely on themselves. Vaughan and Howe clearly resorted to such violence as an absolute last resort; they didn't gleefully initiate violence on the elves simply because they could.
Please direct me to the time when a nobleman walked into a poor human neighborhood and abducted dozens of women to rape en masse. Or when humans were sacrificed for the sake of initiating soldiers into a branch of the military. What about the time there was a law outlawing self-defense for humans?
Oh right. None of that happened.
Please direct me to the time when a nobleman walked into a poor human neighborhood and abducted dozens of women to rape en masse. Or when humans were sacrificed for the sake of initiating soldiers into a branch of the military. What about the time there was a law outlawing self-defense for humans?
Oh right. None of that happened.
Actually, in Orlais, human peasants can and are used for the pleasure of those above them. Liselle the flower merchant in the Denirim Market fled Orlais with her brother just to escape from a Chevalier who tried to rape her, and had every legal right to do so.
And then cross your fingers and hope today isn't the day humans come in and try to rape and/or murder you.
which is why many of us want to promote better treatment of city elves, we take issue with the dalish because trouble follows them like vultures
Please direct me to the time when a nobleman walked into a poor human neighborhood and abducted dozens of women to rape en masse. Or when humans were sacrificed for the sake of initiating soldiers into a branch of the military. What about the time there was a law outlawing self-defense for humans?
Oh right. None of that happened.
Orlasi conducted whole sale massacres of humans in Ferelden
"I had to flee my homeland because my brother wouldn't let a Chevalier rape me, but clearly I have no right to complain because those poor elves have it so much worse."
The poor and disenfranchised have it bad, regardless or race. Everyone not a member of a privileged group exists at the whim of those with social power. If you want to nitpick about degrees, that's your hangup.
Of course, because people with greater social, political, and economic power never murder or massacre those under them without just cause. Victims of systematic subjugation, violence, massacres and genocide always bring it upon themselves after endlessly harrying and forcing those with greater power than them to choose it as an absolute last resort.
It's like the city elves under Bann Vaughan and Rendon Howe. The elves brought the wedding-crashing, kidnapping, gang-rape, and later purge of the alienage completely on themselves. Vaughan and Howe clearly resorted to such violence as an absolute last resort; they didn't gleefully initiate violence on the elves simply because they could.
no the elves bring it on themselves when they riot, attack humans, etc...
Those elves were justified in attacking Howe and Vaughn, and there should be a movement to give city elves full legal protections
Orlasi conducted whole sale massacres of humans in Ferelden
Orlais was occupying them. The Orlesian and Fereldan governments don't make a habit of killing their own citizens unless they're elves.
Guest_Faerunner_*
Actually, in Orlais, human peasants can and are used for the pleasure of those above them. Liselle the flower merchant in the Denirim Market fled Orlais with her brother just to escape from a Chevalier who tried to rape her, and had every legal right to do so.
One girl and her brother are subject to one Chevalier = a whole group of women abducted during a wedding, in the light of day, by dozens of guards and the local lord, while all their family and friends can only look helplessly on, and local law enforcement ignores their cries of outrage because the powers that be don't care what people of a whole separate social group suffer?
"I had to flee my homeland because my brother wouldn't let a Chevalier rape me, but clearly I have no right to complain because those poor elves have it so much worse."
The poor and disenfranchised have it bad, regardless or race. Everyone not a member of a privileged group exists at the whim of those with social power. If you want to nitpick about degrees, that's your hangup.
I didn't say that, but it is completely disingenuous to compare that to what Vaughan did. Degrees do matter, because it is overwhelmingly elves that have to deal with this, not humans.
One girl and her brother are subject to one Chevalier = a whole group of women abducted during a wedding, in the light of day, by dozens of guards and the local lord, while all their family and friends can only look helplessly on, and local law enforcement ignores their cries of outrage because the powers that be don't care what people of a whole group suffer?
I'm sorry, I thought rape was equally bad, regardless of volume. I didn't realize it was ok if it only happened to one human now and again.
Orlais was occupying them. The Orlesian and Fereldan governments don't make a habit of killing their own citizens unless they're elves.
except Orlesian chevaliers killing human peasants, and raping them....
furthermore, according to the Orlesians, Ferelden was then a part of Orlais at that time so they would have technically been Orlesian citizens
One girl and her brother are subject to one Chevalier = a whole group of women abducted during a wedding, in the light of day, by dozens of guards and the local lord, while all their family and friends can only look helplessly on, and local law enforcement ignores their cries of outrage because the powers that be don't care what people of a whole group suffer?
assuming that it is an isolated case is extremely naive, Chevaliers are notorious for their appetites for destruction
I'm sorry, I thought rape was equally bad, regardless of volume. I didn't realize it was ok if it only happened to one human now and again.
Rape is bad no matter what, but that doesn't mean you should ignore the fact that a certain group of people tend to be more vulnerable to it, and in greater numbers.
except Orlesian chevaliers killing human peasants, and raping them....
See above.
furthermore, according to the Orlesians, Ferelden was then a part of Orlais at that time so they would have technically been Orlesian citizens
They certainly didn't see them that way.
Rape is bad no matter what, but that doesn't mean you should ignore the fact that a certain group of people tend to be more vulnerable to it, and in greater numbers.
I didn't. The poor and disenfranchised are more vulnerable to it, and in greater numbers.
Guest_Faerunner_*
no the elves bring it on themselves when they riot, attack humans, etc...
Which happens every time, right?
And humans never bring riots or attacks on themselves, right?
Those elves were justified in attacking Howe and Vaughn, and there should be a movement to give city elves full legal protections
Or allow them to protect themselves so a whole other racial group doesn't constantly control their fate. So their lives, safety, and well-being aren't subject to the whims of the people in charge at the time, who might afford them some protect sometimes but then take it away in others. Your argument is paternalistic at best.
Rape is bad no matter what, but that doesn't mean you should ignore the fact that a certain group of people tend to be more vulnerable to it, and in greater numbers.
yes, the poor, unlanded, politically unrepresented, elves and humans alike
I think it's pretty well established that when unaccountable people have power over others, bad things happen.
Which happens every time, right?
And humans never bring riots or attacks on themselves, right?
Or allow them to protect themselves so a whole other racial group doesn't constantly control their fate. So their lives, safety, and well-being aren't subject to the whims of the people in charge at the time, who might afford them some protect sometimes but then take it away in others. Your argument is paternalistic at best.
when they move on from attacking guards to looting houses and such, then yes, they have brought the rule of law down upon themselves. No one deserves to exist at the whim of those in power, but violence is not the best tool for achieving it.
Yes it is paternalistic because the elves don't have a lot of other options. They can't effectively militarize because they lack weapons, training, infrastructure to support a war, and their centers of population are within human cities, armed revolt won't work in the long run.
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