695 réponses à ce sujet

[Exaltation]

Gonna have revenge first for Arlathan and Dales.

[Gervaise]

I wasn't suggesting that you are the single leader.   What I meant was give your ideas for what would work for government based on what you know of the elves and Thedas generally.    So imagine you are one of the elves of the fledgling state putting forward ideas for a workable solution, not I'm a dictator and this is what you will do.    Actually if they didn't work something out collectively, then getting a dictator or a group of (Dalish) dictators is likely what they will end up with.

[Dean_the_Young]

I wasn't suggesting that you are the single leader.   What I meant was give your ideas for what would work for government based on what you know of the elves and Thedas generally.    So imagine you are one of the elves of the fledgling state putting forward ideas for a workable solution, not I'm a dictator and this is what you will do.    Actually if they didn't work something out collectively, then getting a dictator or a group of (Dalish) dictators is likely what they will end up with.

Authoritarian oligarchies are about the only sort of fledgling state the elves have a chance of producing. Besides that those are the dominant governments in Thedas, with an intellectual void for alternatives, those are also the most common/default states for inexperienced governments and without civil societies.

 

If I were one of the elves in the fledgling states, i wouldn't be a progressive liberal of the 21st century west. I'd be an ignorant, uneducated, broadly racist and exceptionally poor person with no real standing or basis for having good and useful ideas.

[Elfquisitor]

Diplomacy and apathy, led us to here. This time I would build giant army of elven fighters and mages, united under one banner,and goona take revenge and take back Dales. Because it's our by claim and blood.

[Treacherous J Slither]

I would suggest full isolation if it's possible. See what a few centuries of elf only civilization can accomplish. 

 

Any non elves currently living in the area can stay but they are not allowed into higher office. 

 

Any individual with elf blood or lineage or relation even through marriage is treated as an elf. Hopefully this will encourage many non elves to "become elves" or leave. I can see how this would upset people but this is supposed to be an elf homeland. Not simply a new nation will a large elf population. 

 

Each group is self governing. All the groups meet a various times of the year and engage in whatever dealings are necessary to keep the whole thing from falling apart.

 

^None of this seems likely though. A vassal state with a large elf population is what's most likely in my eyes but I don't see any nation doing that for them unless the elves pulled a Shartan level heroic feat and were repaid in land. Maybe that's what happens in DAI. Hrmmm...

[EmperorSahlertz]

Gonna have revenge first for Arlathan and Dales.

Diplomacy and apathy, led us to here. This time I would build giant army of elven fighters and mages, united under one banner,and goona take revenge and take back Dales. Because it's our by claim and blood.

Oh?... This should be great.....

[LobselVith8]

This is a bit of a follow on to the thread - do elves deserve a homeland? Let's assume that by whatever means, either rebellion or benevolence of human rulers, you have achieved a homeland. It is intended as a refuge for all elves. How would you organise it?

Would you allow the Dalish to run the show? Would you insist on some sort of Landsmeet type council to approve an overall leader? Would you not have an overall ruler but simply a ruling council with equal representation for the various elven factions.

In the scenario where my elven Inquisitor helped establish an independent Dales (or something similar), my main character would like to see the Dalish have a voice in the elven government. Otherwise, their mages, their religion, and their culture could be threatened.

Ideally, leaders among the Andrastian and Qunari would also have a voice. It won't be easy, but they'll have to learn to work with one another (and accept their differences) to make a pan-elven nation function. Through trials and tribulations, I think an autonomous elven state can succeed.

Would you have freedom of worship? Bearing in mind that many city elves do worship the Maker and others have converted to the Qun, would you allow them to continue to follow their particular faith? What of those who have no religious faith and are hostile and disparaging about the Creators/Maker/Qun?

As long as no one threatened conversion and respected the rights of everyone else to be Dalish, Andrastian, Qunari, agnostic, atheist, or something else entirely, my elven protagonist wouldn't see an issue. As a Dalish, the concept of forced conversion would be repellant to him.

What would be your attitude towards other races? Would they be allowed to co-exist in the elven state provided they did not cause trouble? Would they be allowed a say in running affairs? Or would all non elves be excluded totally and evicted if living on the land now considered elven?

No, Orlesians human nobles wouldn't be permitted to rule over the elves anymore. The former nobility who governed the occupied Dales would be evicted from an independent Dales, or tried in court if they committed any crimes against the elven people.

Would you be isolationist and attempt to be largely self sufficient or would you actively engage in trade with other nations? Would you send ambassadors to make your case with other rulers and would you allow the same? Would you have an army patrolling borders and keeping out intruders and non elves.

An alliance with Ferelden and Orzammar would be one of the first steps. Having an elven Grey Warden presence to avoid a catastrophe, like the one in Ferelden, would also be essential.

As for the borders, using a new order of Emerald Knights (and possibly steel golems from Branka) to guard against Orlesian threats would be necessary.

Everyone may have their own particular view about the truth of what happened in the past and this may inform your ideas about the best way to run your homeland but for the most part I want to concentrate on the future and how you would use your homeland?

My Dalish would want the elven homeland to serve as a beacon of hope for the elves across Thedas - a place where they be safe, and establish a future for new generations. In time, it can be even more, with art, literature, studies into the Beyond.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

Oh?... This should be great.....

It will be great, don't you remember all the great successes the elves had before when using strategies like that against humans....

[Lady Nuggins]

I like the idea of a council, which fits in with the current way of ruling that the Dalish have, with clan leaders who likely exchange ideas at clansmeets.  A council made up of clan leaders, keepers, and alienage leaders.  The elves currently have no royalty, so rule by a single individual doesn't seem to fit, and their clan leaders are not chosen by birth anyway.  Also, not including City Elves on the council seems like a foolish thing to do, as they need the City Elves to give them the necessary numbers to hold their land.  If they want to attract elves from human cities, they need to be seen as inclusive. 

 

Dalish are nomadic only by necessity, and City Elves did not choose their living quarters either, so it seems more likely that they would establish small towns and villages.  That said, hunting and raising halla are part of Dalish culture now, so it seems likely that many will remain closer to the woods for that purpose, while the City Elves are probably more used to lots of buildings and infrastructure. 

 

I'd see them as having Dalish traditions as their "official" religion, but with other faiths grudgingly accepted.  An official program of teaching Dalish ways to all elves would strengthen their cultural distinction from the surrounding human nations.  The Keepers could train apprentices to go out and teach their history, writing, and way of life to the masses, which would allow them to "suggest" their religion to the population without requiring any force.  It would also help educate what is probably a very undereducated society.

 

I'm not sure how establishing a purely elven homeland would work without some serious bloodshed.  No large area is going to be entirely free of established people.  One diplomatic option might be to buy out any humans living in those places, but the elves aren't exactly wealthy themselves.  Perhaps they could be persuaded to take previously Dalish-occupied land in Orlais or Ferelden instead.  Or, perhaps they could tolerate the humans, but establish some heavily restrictive laws that make being a human in that area so uncomfortable that they choose to leave. 

 

It would be interesting if they invited vashoth and tal-vashoth to join them.  After all, they are people who also suffered under an oppressive society, but who wish to be left alone to live their lives.  And they are a minority, unlike humans who always run the risk of overrunning them. 

[Master Warder Z_]

I'm a fan of Shartan personally - he's my hero.

 

Were you aware he was a follower of Andraste's god as well as her cause?

 

He converted ._. Hence why i personally think, he would have been disgusted with how his people misused the boon granted to them.

[Halfdan The Menace]

Not here. I'm of the mindset that "conquering the world" is a silly notion because all the troops you can muster won't bail you out of the managerial nightmare of unifying the planet under a single banner, especially on an economic level. I'm leery enough about being put in charge of a single village, let alone a nation-state.

Wouldn't that be easier if you have allies and advisors?

[Lady Nuggins]

Were you aware he was a follower of Andraste's god as well as her cause?

 

He converted ._. Hence why i personally think, he would have been disgusted with how his people misused the boon granted to them.

 

Andrasteism as it now exists did not appear until after her death, though, so whatever he believed in probably didn't bear much resemblance to what the Chantry teaches (or taught at the time of the second Exalted March).

[Master Warder Z_]

Andrasteism as it now exists did not appear until after her death, though, so whatever he believed in probably didn't bear much resemblance to what the Chantry teaches (or taught at the time of the second Exalted March).

 

Truly? As far as i am can tell there is one critical component here that was similar in both cases.

 

The Maker was present in both incarnations.

 

Do you really think the denial of the Maker would have gone over well with Shartan? The elf who died alongside Andraste? Do you think the Dalish refusal to allow missionaries into the Kingdom or the construction of a Chantry would have appeased him? 

 

So whatever he believed or was taught is illervant when the central theme of both is denied, and denied quite hostilly.

[Lady Nuggins]

Truly? As far as i am can tell there is one critical component here that was similar in both cases.

 

The Maker was present in both incarnations.

 

Do you really think the denial of the Maker would have gone over well with Shartan? The elf who died alongside Andraste? Do you think the Dalish refusal to allow missionaries into the Kingdom or the construction of a Chantry would have appeased him? 

 

So whatever he believed or was taught is illervant when the central theme of both is denied, and denied quite hostilly.

 

Maybe, but on the flipside I think Andraste would be more horrified to see how the Chantry marched on the Dales in her name.  Refusal to allow missionaries in is not nearly as hostile as going to war against the very people who supported her.

[Swoopdogg]

As long as we have Taco Tuesdays, everything should work out nicely

[pulsar989]

One of the biggest problems the elfs had is religion with ther first country if everyone around you practices a different religion their is going to be problems (like in the real world with a isreal and its neighbors.) If you want the nation to work you got to make sure the city elves are in charge because the practice the same religion as the other nations rullers the Chantry. After that you need a strong executive incharge for leadership be it

Briana or the Hero of Ferelden (if a elf)

after that it is just a simple matter of delegation be it the Orlesian system or the Ferelden city. Next you have to be on term with one of your Neighbors, thank the maker Orlisians and Fereldens hate each other since you are between both nations it is just a matter of getting on terms with one nation against the other (always count of self interest).

then it is just a matter of letting people do what they do.

[myahele]

Lanaya in my epilogue does it right in my oppinion.

Teaching dalish clans on how to deal with humans and to try and quell thier thirst for vengeance.

I'm guessing post inquisition will have a reformed chantry. It probably won't have as much power (politically) and will just be a religion. With a non blight related problem I'm sure many will stop believing in the chantry and folllow the multi-faction inquisition.


With that said: Post inquisition should be handled with diplomacy(the more allies the better)>trade> warfare. In the end, race won't matter so long as you are strong enough to defend yourself.

Keep in mind that Arlathan was an empire, which means they probably conquered and integrated other elven nations.

[Wulfram]

Is there a neutral source for Shartan's conversion?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Maybe, but on the flipside I think Andraste would be more horrified to see how the Chantry marched on the Dales in her name.  Refusal to allow missionaries in is not nearly as hostile as going to war against the very people who supported her.

The Exalted March wasn't called until a year after the Dales invaded Orlais.

[Master Warder Z_]

Is there a neutral source for Shartan's conversion?

 

Only WOT.

[Elfquisitor]

Oh?... This should be great.....

Why not ? Everyone deserves to have a home. I wasn't suggesting we take revenge on the entire human race. All I was saying is that the Dales are ours by blood and claim.Those humans,qunari and etc who stand with us will be named heroes and never be forgotten .And we take our country back, but this time no diplomacy, which mostly equals apathy. A more militaristic based country, With a king and a loyal parlament filled with people who know what they are doing. I'm not saying that diplomacy should be forgotten completly, but when people are trying to invade we shall fight back.

[LobselVith8]

Lanaya in my epilogue does it right in my oppinion.

Teaching dalish clans on how to deal with humans and to try and quell thier thirst for vengeance.

I'm guessing post inquisition will have a reformed chantry. It probably won't have as much power (politically) and will just be a religion. With a non blight related problem I'm sure many will stop believing in the chantry and folllow the multi-faction inquisition.


With that said: Post inquisition should be handled with diplomacy(the more allies the better)>trade> warfare. In the end, race won't matter so long as you are strong enough to defend yourself.

Keep in mind that Arlathan was an empire, which means they probably conquered and integrated other elven nations.

 

Elvhenan was the civilization of the elves that covered Thedas, while the city of Arlathan was the capital of their politics and culture (in elvish, it was called ar lath’an, which translates loosely to "this place I love"). Felassan commented about Arlathan, "Take the richest district in Val Royeaux, and add the magic that was part of our everyday life. Every statue fountain could speak through the water that poured from her mouth. Every column glowed with runes the fools in Tevinter copied by rote like children tracing letters. When night fell, the roads were lit by stones like these, bright enough to find your way safely, but soft enough that you could still see the stars."

[Lulupab]

Also its understandable why the elves want to worship their own gods instead of the maker. Because they actually existed and could influence the physical world. (before being trapped)