695 réponses à ce sujet

[MisterJB]

Lulupab, stop making stuff up as you go along.

Nowhere is it said that most mage from the Anders Circle join the Grey Wardens. In fact, both DAO and "The Last Flight" have established that Wardens usually recruit only one mage from one Circle to become a Warden.

Also, given how the Anders are the most pious people in Thedas who have had many confrontations with and rebellions against Tevinter in the past, logic dictates they would take the business of policing mages very seriously.

 

Also, Wardens aren't the ruling class. They have much authority in desolated communities that are frequently attacked by Darkspawn but there is a monarchy. And there is nothing that indicates they are the Anderfel's standing army unless you think that the myriad of battle fought by the Anderfels against Tevinter after the First Battle were all fought by the politically neutral Grey Wardens.

[Hellion Rex]

Actually as far as I know its independent from white and imperial chantry both, its a grey warden nation and its like a grey chantry since the grey wardens are both the ruling class and the standing army of Anderfels.

It's not independent, though. We are thrust into Hossberg, Valya's Circle, after Asunder has already occurred, so the mages in the Anderfels are running to the Wardens for protection from the Templars. This isn't a normal situation.

[Hellion Rex]

What? You are assuming too many things of the Anderfels.

 

Actually, it's stated in World of Thedas and other sources too that the Anderfels is without a doubt the most pious of the Thedosian nations and firm believers of the Chantry (the Orlesian one). There's a king ruling in Hossberg, the capital, and he uses religion to strengthen the authority of his royal tribunals. In fact, when the king decides to murder someone is called "absolution", not "assassination". The influence of religion is prevalent everywhere in the Anderfels, completely opposite to being "independent from white a

I believe Lulupab is misreading some of the things from the opening chapter of The Last Flight, which details the relationship between the Anderfels Circles and Weisshaupt.

[Mistic]

I believe Lulupab is misreading some of the things from the opening chapter of The Last Flight, which details the relationship between the Anderfels Circles and Weisshaupt.

 

Oh, has the book been published yet? Or is there a preview? I'd like to know it, since it seems it will provide a nice insight into the Grey Wardens.

[Lulupab]

What? You are assuming too many things about the Anderfels.

Actually, it's stated in World of Thedas and other sources too that the Anderfels is without a doubt the most pious of the Thedosian nations and firm believers of the Chantry (the Orlesian one). There's a king ruling in Hossberg, the capital, and he uses religion to strengthen the authority of his royal tribunals. In fact, when the king decides to murder someone is called "absolution", not "assassination". The influence of religion is prevalent everywhere in the Anderfels, completely opposite to being "independent from white and imperial chantry both".

However, because of the darkspawn, royal authority is only felt strongly in the capital. In the remote villages, Grey Wardens are the only ones defending them, so it's true that they hold a lot of power. However, the standing army? Not by far. There are a thousand Wardens present in the Anderfels, the largest number in any Thedosian country, yet inferior in numbers to a large feudal lord's army.



Fenris is the only CITY elf we have talked about magic in some depth. Dalish, of course, have a different point of view, but it's an important matter since Dalish are inferior in number to the City Elves. Fenris is a good example to break preconceptions because it proves that the People (as Lob would say) aren't a monolithic group and that magic can be considered dangerous by elves too. If Fenris' opinions are in the majority or the minority is something we don't know yet. As you said, after all, absence of evidence doesn't mean evidence of absence.

But still the country survives because of grey wardens. They are much more important that useless army that keeps kittens of capital safe. The fact that Anderfels is the only place grey wardens can recruit as many mages as they want speaks volumes. The chantry usually doesn't allow excess number of mage grey wardens to exist at a time but its powerless to do anything in Anderfels. How else do you explain all the mages in Warden keeps of Anderfels?

Except Fenris had loss of memory several times and he is Templar version of Anders and just like many people don't care what Anders thinks, many feel the same about Fenris. He is a hypocrite who would sell everything to become a mage himself "to hold as much as power as Magisters" ~Fenris drools. try rivaling Fenris once a while to see his true face, friend fenris is just having a good time because Hawke supports him.

[LobselVith8]

Usually this is true about magocracy. But noble birth is not exactly any better, birthrights almost always fail because there is no guarantee the sons will be as good as their fathers which is why we vote and choose our leaders.

But in case of elves its even more complicated. What if all elves were actually mages, would that be magocracy then? Or will it simply become an Elven court.

Edit: I highly doubt elves will allow a circle/templar system in their new nation. Provided this system still exists by then.

 

Well, considering Felassan's remarks focused on Dreamers basically serving as the counterpart in Arlathan to modern Orlesian nobility, I imagine another word would be more sufficient, given how the Dreamers seemed to rule over everyone else. That's not the case with the hypothetical elven kingdom, given how it's quite rare for Dreamers to be born, and it's doubtful a plethora will arise by the time the protagonist could potentially do something to help the elves claim a land of their own, like the Dales.

 

The Chantry would likely take issue with "heathens" and mages having authority, but if this hypothetical scenario is taking place in a post-Breach Thedas, then I think the Inquisitor's public (and military) support would carry more weight than a fractured and impotent Chantry. I think, for the purposes of the hypothetical scenario for this thread, the Inquisition could make a significant (and positive) difference for the future of an elven homeland.

[Hellion Rex]

Oh, has the book been published yet? Or is there a preview? I'd like to know it, since it seems it will provide a nice insight into the Grey Wardens.

Yeah, there's a preview on Amazon that went up last Wednesday. It has the first chapter, plus some more. It's very good. I think I'm liking it more than TME and Asunder, based on the parts that I read.

[Lulupab]

Lulupab, stop making stuff up as you go along.
Nowhere is it said that most mage from the Anders Circle join the Grey Wardens. In fact, both DAO and "The Last Flight" have established that Wardens usually recruit only one mage from one Circle to become a Warden.
Also, given how the Anders are the most pious people in Thedas who have had many confrontations with and rebellions against Tevinter in the past, logic dictates they would take the business of policing mages very seriously.
 
Also, Wardens aren't the ruling class. They have much authority in desolated communities that are frequently attacked by Darkspawn but there is a monarchy. And there is nothing that indicates they are the Anderfel's standing army unless you think that the myriad of battle fought by the Anderfels against Tevinter after the First Battle were all fought by the politically neutral Grey Wardens.

According to Riordan, the king of the Anderfels is weak and the people refer to the Grey Wardens for leadership. He also states that there are over a thousand Wardens present in the Anderfels. The Anderfels is the last place where the Grey Wardens have retained their importance over the centuries. They hold political power equal to an Orlesian baron or Fereldan teyrn, a power they have recently taken greater advantage of. How else do you explain the mage recruits stationed in Anderfels keeps and outposts. One mage from every circle is certainly not enough. Grey Wardens simply have too much power in Anderfels, everywhere except the isolated capital where the people are actually very religious. Intriguingly, the First Warden has recently begun to criticize the nation's monarchy, suggesting that the leader of the Wardens is considering a grab for the throne (as stated in WOT)

[Lulupab]

Well, considering Felassan's remarks focused on Dreamers basically serving as the counterpart in Arlathan to modern Orlesian nobility, I imagine another word would be more sufficient, given how the Dreamers seemed to rule over everyone else. That's not the case with the hypothetical elven kingdom, given how it's quite rare for Dreamers to be born, and it's doubtful a plethora will arise by the time the protagonist could potentially do something to help the elves claim a land of their own, like the Dales.
 
The Chantry would likely take issue with "heathens" and mages having authority, but if this hypothetical scenario is taking place in a post-Breach Thedas, then I think the Inquisitor's public (and military) support would carry more weight than a fractured and impotent Chantry. I think, for the purposes of the hypothetical scenario for this thread, the Inquisition could make a significant (and positive) difference for the future of an elven homeland.

If that's the case I'm really looking forward to it. Not being able to play a Dalish mage was the biggest disappointment I had in DAO and its time to rectify that.

[LobselVith8]

If that's the case I'm really looking forward to it. Not being able to play a Dalish mage was the biggest disappointment I had in DAO and its time to rectify that.

 

I'm looking forward to playing as an elven mage, too. I read a great story years ago (called "The Wolf at the Edge of Camp", by Addai) that mixed the themes and symbolism of the Fremen tribes and the kwisatz haderach with the Dalish clans, and ever since, I've found the concept of a heroic Dalish mage who united the clans to be quite appealing. Given the elven majority in the Dales, the exodus of humans from the Dales (mentioned in Asunder), and Bioware's reference to the presence of the Dalish in Inquisition, I'm hoping the Dales features an elven storyline where the elven Inquisitor can help the Elvhen.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Why not ? Everyone deserves to have a home. I wasn't suggesting we take revenge on the entire human race. All I was saying is that the Dales are ours by blood and claim.Those humans,qunari and etc who stand with us will be named heroes and never be forgotten .And we take our country back, but this time no diplomacy, which mostly equals apathy. A more militaristic based country, With a king and a loyal parlament filled with people who know what they are doing. I'm not saying that diplomacy should be forgotten completly, but when people are trying to invade we shall fight back.

Yeah... Because founding a country on the torrents of blood from human women, children and non-combatants will SURELY generate tons of goodwill from the rest of humanity........... A militaristic approach for the Elves is a one-way ticket to extinction. First of all the Elves does not have an army. Second of all they do not have the required unity.

What you suggest will bring death. But it will be the Elves' lives which are lost.

[Master Warder Z_]

Yeah... Because founding a country on the torrents of blood from human women, children and non-combatants will SURELY generate tons of goodwill from the rest of humanity........... A militaristic approach for the Elves is a one-way ticket to extinction. First of all the Elves does not have an army. Second of all they do not have the required unity.

What you suggest will bring death. But it will be the Elves' lives which are lost.

 

Nothing to unite Thedas like a bunch of uppity invaders.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Nothing to unite Thedas like a bunch of uppity invaders.

 

Elves: FREEEEEEEEEEEEDOOOOOOOOOM!!!!!

Human 1: Elves be crazy.

Human 2: Elves indeed be crazy.

Tevinter Human: I F***ing told you!!!!

Human: Alright let's kill em and call it a day.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

If that's the case I'm really looking forward to it. Not being able to play a Dalish mage was the biggest disappointment I had in DAO and its time to rectify that.

Too bad we can only be Dalish. Still worst news of Inquisition. 

[LobselVith8]

Yeah... Because founding a country on the torrents of blood from human women, children and non-combatants will SURELY generate tons of goodwill from the rest of humanity........... A militaristic approach for the Elves is a one-way ticket to extinction. First of all the Elves does not have an army. Second of all they do not have the required unity.

What you suggest will bring death. But it will be the Elves' lives which are lost.

 

I find myself perplexed as to how you read a post about elves, humans, and qunari working together for a better future for the Elvhen, and an independent Dales, and instead misconstrued it to be about killing innocent people.

 

Then again, I remain vexed as to why people who have made it clear, time and again, that they dislike the elves, continually bombard the elven threads about how much they despise the elves, people whom you seem to be familiar with. Maybe we can focus on the actual topic at hand for a change, or the people who dislike the elves can simply show some civility for the rest of us and allow us to discuss the topic? The thread is about the management of an elven homeland, not an invitation to express why you don't think an elven homeland should exist.

[Master Warder Z_]

I find myself perplexed as to how you read a post about elves, humans, and qunari working together for a better future for the Elvhen, and an independent Dales, and instead misconstrued it to be about killing innocent people.

 

Did you even read the post in question lob?

 

It contained gems such as violent seizures of land, war and death.

[Nukekitten]

As you said, after all, absence of evidence doesn't mean evidence of absence.

Uhm. *chews lip* I'm not sure that's right.

 

If I say I've put ten thousand pounds in your bank account, the fact that when you go to your bank account you won't see it having a new ten thousand pounds having gone in seems like it should count as fairly strong evidence of the absence.

 

Granted in probabilistic terms you'd just lower your confidence given the lack of evidence rather than accepting it as an effectively binary thing but still....

 

Though maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean?

[Master Warder Z_]

Elves are the invaders? Really? I'm not taking a sides here, but that's just wrong.

 

What do you mean?

[Steelcan]

What do you mean?

technically they were here first

[Master Warder Z_]

technically they were here first

 

Bah, that's the same as the Russians coming across the land bridge argument for North America.

 

They lost their land, The Elves lost their land.

 

They aren't anymore native to Thedas then Qunari or Humanity.

[Master Warder Z_]

How can elves invade if Thedas was their land to begin with? Humans and Kossith/Qunari came later.

 

It wasn't their land, they claimed it, they lost the ability to enforce that claim, it ceased to be theirs.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

I find myself perplexed as to how you read a post about elves, humans, and qunari working together for a better future for the Elvhen, and an independent Dales, and instead misconstrued it to be about killing innocent people.

 

Then again, I remain vexed as to why people who have made it clear, time and again, that they dislike the elves, continually bombard the elven threads about how much they despise the elves, people whom you seem to be familiar with. Maybe we can focus on the actual topic at hand for a change, or the people who dislike the elves can simply show some civility for the rest of us and allow us to discuss the topic? The thread is about the management of an elven homeland, not an invitation to express why you don't think an elven homeland should exist.

 

People hate the Dalish Lob, usually not ALL ELVES. There is a difference that you refuse to see.

[Aimi]

Uhm. *chews lip* I'm not sure that's right.
 
If I say I've put ten thousand pounds in your bank account, the fact that when you go to your bank account you won't see it having a new ten thousand pounds having gone in seems like it should count as fairly strong evidence of the absence.
 
Granted in probabilistic terms you'd just lower your confidence given the lack of evidence rather than accepting it as an effectively binary thing but still....
 
Though maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean?

 
That's, uh, not the same thing at all. Extrapolating the general tenor of non-Dalish elven sentiment about magic - the opinions of tens or hundreds of thousands of individuals - from one source is not the same thing as expecting to see something in your bank account and not finding it.
 

How can elves invade if Thedas was their land to begin with? Humans and Kossith/Qunari came later.

This is not a universally accepted definition of ownership. Or of the word "invasion".